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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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High school coach charged in player's death
    #9670592 - 01/24/09 11:37 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

By BRETT BARROUQUERE, – Fri Jan 23, 1:02 am ET AP 

A Kentucky high school football coach was charged Thursday with reckless homicide in the death of a player who collapsed during a sweltering practice in a rare criminal case against a coach in a heat death.

A grand jury indicted David Jason Stinson in the death of Pleasure Ridge Park offensive lineman Max Gilpin. Stinson, in his first year as head coach at the Louisville school, was directing practice on Aug. 20 when the 15-year-old sophomore collapsed and had trouble breathing. The heat index, a measure of how hot it feels based on temperature and humidity, was 94 degrees that day.

The player had a temperature of 107 degrees when he arrived at the hospital, authorities said, and died three days later. No autopsy was performed, but it appeared Gilpin died from complications from heat stroke, according to the coroner's office.

Assistant coach Steve Deacon called 911 and told a dispatcher that Gilpin was semiconscious and that his father was nearby, according to a transcript of the call.





Hmmm, let's see:

1. Were the parents, the school, and society-at-large culpable as well? Where did the extreme pressure to win come from?

2. One makes better athletes by pushing them harder. Where does one draw the line? Players are expected to play in heat and cold under extreme duress.

3. Did the student not have a mind of his own? Is he not ultimately responsible for the care and maintenance of his body? This  was not prison nor the military, he could have walked whenever he wanted.


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Offlinepsilyguy
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9670599 - 01/24/09 11:39 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

so either the kid wasn't smart and didn't drink water, or the coach didn't let him drink enough?

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InvisibleIndigenous
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Registered: 01/08/09
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9670612 - 01/24/09 11:42 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

According to a report on MSNBC, coaches had refused to let players take water breaks.




Vital fact omitted from story.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: Indigenous]
    #9670634 - 01/24/09 11:49 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Do you consider verbal stoppage on a par with physical restraint?


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (01/24/09 11:58 AM)

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InvisibleIndigenous
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9670641 - 01/24/09 11:52 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

You are dealing with a minor who is under the control of an adult authority figure.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: Indigenous]
    #9670655 - 01/24/09 11:56 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

And the coach is under the authority of the school board. As no one else died, perhaps it was just Darwinian herd-thinning rather than malfeasance.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9670690 - 01/24/09 12:05 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Why must you ignore human psychology in order to blame the victim?  Numerous tests have shown what irrational things people will do under the instruction of authority figures.  One can hardly blame a 15-year-old for not resisting a man who the entire community expected him to follow.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: Silversoul]
    #9670701 - 01/24/09 12:07 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

How was he a victim? Was he being tortured, or did he have the ability to simply walk out and go to drink some water when he was thirsty?
I fail to see how a verbal, meaningless interdiction can make one unable to go and take care of their basic bodily needs.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #9670721 - 01/24/09 12:11 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
How was he a victim? Was he being tortured, or did he have the ability to simply walk out and go to drink some water when he was thirsty?
I fail to see how a verbal, meaningless interdiction can make one unable to go and take care of their basic bodily needs.



As I already explained, this kind of Monday-morning quarterbacking ignores fundamental features of people's psychological makeup.  The coach's authority is recognized by the entire community.  People are psychologically programmed to follow and trust such authority.  This include trusting them to know when enough is enough.  So even though the kid may have been exhausted, he would've naturally trusted the coach to know what he was doing.  Under the standards of the community, this would have been a reasonable expectation.


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InvisibleIndigenous
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: Silversoul]
    #9670722 - 01/24/09 12:12 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: Silversoul]
    #9670737 - 01/24/09 12:15 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Why must you ignore human psychology in order to blame the victim?




If I must do something, then I have no choice. Correct? Why must you make the thread about me?


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InvisibleIndigenous
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #9670746 - 01/24/09 12:17 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
How was he a victim? Was he being tortured, or did he have the ability to simply walk out and go to drink some water when he was thirsty?
I fail to see how a verbal, meaningless interdiction can make one unable to go and take care of their basic bodily needs.




Quote:

Indigenous said:
You are dealing with a minor who is under the control of an adult authority figure.




Have you ever been a 15 year old boy on a football team? There is peer pressure, the coach holds the power to cut you from the team, children are stupid and need supervision, etc.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: Indigenous]
    #9670769 - 01/24/09 12:23 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Have you ever been a 15 year old boy on a football team? There is peer pressure, the coach holds the power to cut you from the team, children are stupid and need supervision, etc.




Have you ever been a 21 year old man on a football team? There is peer pressure, the coach holds the power to cut you from the team, young adults are stupid and need supervision, etc.


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InvisibleIndigenous
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9670797 - 01/24/09 12:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Have you ever been a 15 year old boy on a football team? There is peer pressure, the coach holds the power to cut you from the team, children are stupid and need supervision, etc.




Have you ever been a 21 year old man on a football team? There is peer pressure, the coach holds the power to cut you from the team, young adults are stupid and need supervision, etc.




First off, I was replying to MT. I think the odds of you being a 15 year old boy on a football team are greater. I also do not agree with your comparison. 21 year old men are not the same as 15 year old boys. I am surprised that you haven't realized that by now.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: Indigenous]
    #9670824 - 01/24/09 12:35 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
21 year old men are not the same as 15 year old boys. I am surprised that you haven't realized that by now.



Might have been his Catholic upbringing. :rimshot:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: Silversoul]
    #9670847 - 01/24/09 12:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

There's nothing to point towards the existence of a pre-established psychological make-up such as the one you're describing.
While it might be true that, for some people, an authority figure can have such a significant meaning and importance that they are choosing even to ignore their basic biological needs, it doesn't mean, in any way, that they are not still the ones responsible for themselves and their well being.
No matter how you twist it, an "authority figure" belongs to personal perception, and it's not like the coach has actually taken physical steps in keeping the kid away from water.
I'm wondering what you mean by "standards of the community", and how something as flawed and subjective as this can be pointing to any kind of truth. Perhaps, what you mean to say is that the ones that are most responsible for making the kid believe such a bull-shit are his parents.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #9670855 - 01/24/09 12:43 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I'd appreciate if Veritas could weigh in on this.  I'm tired of arguing with people who don't understand group psychology.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: Indigenous]
    #9670866 - 01/24/09 12:47 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Indigenous said:
Have you ever been a 15 year old boy on a football team? There is peer pressure, the coach holds the power to cut you from the team, children are stupid and need supervision, etc.




No, I have not been a boy (yet :smirk:), but I have been a 15 year old and even younger girl, that went to public schools, and had to deal with all kinds of stupid teachers and other "authority figures", and I couldn't give a shit about what they had to say, if it contradicted what I wanted to do. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: Silversoul]
    #9670870 - 01/24/09 12:50 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
I'd appreciate if Veritas could weigh in on this.  I'm tired of arguing with people who don't understand group psychology.




:thumbdown:
This is just bull-shit. You are either able to sustain your point, or unable. Since you can't continue this discussion any further, it means that you know what to say anymore, and saying that you're tried of arguing with people who can't understand group psychology is pretty fucking lame. :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleIndigenous
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Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 814
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Re: High school coach charged in player's death [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #9670895 - 01/24/09 12:57 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
I'd appreciate if Veritas could weigh in on this.  I'm tired of arguing with people who don't understand group psychology.




:thumbdown:
This is just bull-shit. You are either able to sustain your point, or unable. Since you can't continue this discussion any further, it means that you know what to say anymore, and saying that you're tried of arguing with people who can't understand group psychology is pretty fucking lame. :lol:




I think that the facts I have presented are not going to change in my mind. I think the coach was negligent. There is nothing more to say no matter how many posts you make. It would be rehashing the same points. I never defended the charges against him, I think they are harsh.


Perhaps some new blood would revive this debate, I really am not all that interested.

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