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InvisibleDreaMaTrix
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The great potency debate
    #966345 - 10/16/02 05:37 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, lets have everyones opinion, and maybe we could put this in some sort of General Questions FAQ.

The debate is whether there is a potency difference between strains of cubensis.
Of course, we can't all analyse the chemicals in the different strains we may encounter, so we need to break this down into categories

1. Personal subjective experience

Is there a potency difference between strains?
I have tried different strains of cubensis, and yes I found a difference in potency between strains.
I have tried different strains of cubensis, and No I did not find a difference in potency between strains
I do not have enough experience with different strains to compare them






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InvisibleDreaMaTrix
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #966348 - 10/16/02 05:37 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

2. Variations in effects

Is there a difference in effects between strains?
I have tried different strains, and I have found a difference in the effects between strains
I have tried different strains, and I have NOT found a difference in the effects between strains
I do not have enough experience with different strains to compare them



3. Scientific data

Please post any research that may prove any differences.

4. Personal experience/opinion

Please post any personal experiences or opinions on this matter.


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InvisibleDreaMaTrix
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #966366 - 10/16/02 05:42 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

5. Most potent strain


If you believe there is a difference in potency, which strain is the most potent?
A- Strain
B+
F+
Acadian Coast
Argentina
Aussie
Brazilian
Cambodia
Colombia
Creeper
Ecuador
Golden Teacher
Guadalajara
Gulf Coast
Malabar
Malaysian
Matias Romero
Mazatapec
Mexican #3
Mexi-Cub
Mexi-Palenque
Orissa India
Palenque
Panama
Penis Envy
PESA
PES Amazonian
PES Hawaiian
PF Classic
Puerto Rican
South American
Tapalpa
Tasmania
Texan
Thailand Koh Samui
Thailand-KS Lamai Beach
Thailand - Lipa Yai
Thailand KS pink buffalo
Thailand KS t3
Treasure Coast
Wollongong
Z-Strain




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InvisibleDreaMaTrix
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #966373 - 10/16/02 05:44 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

6. Least potent strain

If you believe there is a potency difference between strains, which one is the weaker in your opinion?
A- Strain
B+
F+
Acadian Coast
Argentina
Aussie
Brazilian
Cambodia
Colombia
Creeper
Ecuador
Golden Teacher
Guadalajara
Gulf Coast
Malabar
Malaysian
Matias Romero
Mazatapec
Mexican #3
Mexi-Cub
Mexi-Palenque
Orissa India
Palenque
Panama
Penis Envy
PESA
PES Amazonian
PES Hawaiian
PF Classic
Puerto Rican
South American
Tapalpa
Tasmania
Texan
Thailand Koh Samui
Thailand-KS Lamai Beach
Thailand - Lipa Yai
Thailand KS pink buffalo
Thailand KS t3
Treasure Coast
Wollongong
Z-Strain




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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #966541 - 10/16/02 06:33 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I do believe that there is a difference in potency...this, from my experience differs from the substrate and the quality of the strain itself.

So far I have seen that Puerto Rican's that have been grown off of manure surpass in potency from any other cubensis strain. 3 of my closest friends and I all ate only 1 dried gram to test the potency of the Puerto Ricans. We were all humbled by the strength of these mushrooms. All were at least on a "level 3" from only one gram. Visuals, body, closed-eye's, we got them all. They seemed to be very "speedy" coming up, to where my entire body was shaking. A little too intense if you ask me. :smile:

I do not cultivate nor partake in any more mushroom journeys for the time being, and that being the last trip to take for a while was certainly a good one. Once again, 1 gram took me to a higher demension (the vertical plane if you will), for a good 6 hours.


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Offlineaural
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #966694 - 10/16/02 07:24 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

In reply to:

The debate is whether there is a potency difference between strains of cubensis




And this debate will do nothing to answer that question.
People who subjectively believe there to be a difference will say yes.
People who,just as subjectively believe there to be no difference,will say no.
You will have a bunch of subjective data,and probably a few flames thrown in,and be no closer to the answer than you were yesterday.

Sorry to sound negative,but....


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OfflineMacey Howard
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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #966789 - 10/16/02 07:50 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)



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InvisibleGumby
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: Macey Howard]
    #967210 - 10/16/02 10:24 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Weilii= different speices, not cubensis.

And I'd have to agree with arual on this one... This just isn't going to prove very much. Too many factors could play into having a different trip... substrate types, dry vs wet, drying methods, growing environment, and trip setting/environment to name a few.


Edited by GumbyDude (10/16/02 10:32 PM)


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Offlinebaraka
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: Gumby]
    #967243 - 10/16/02 10:32 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Ive ate 9 different strains. The differences between strains are usually the way it looks and grows. Some strains seam similar. Another difference is bluing intensity and how fast you can see it blue.

Im almost positive certain strains in general are more potent then others althought every batch even from the same strain varies slightly.

Every trip i take is different in its own way, but after probably 20+ mushroom trips i think all strains provide the same expierence in general.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #968125 - 10/17/02 05:25 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

definate difference!
check Stivje and De Meijer 1993


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Edited by Zen Peddler (10/17/02 05:30 AM)


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #968128 - 10/17/02 05:30 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

hahahahaha finally.
ANgryShroom my PR grown on Dubg were also as intense.
10 different ppl tested them and all were totally astounded by the potency and speed of the come-on.
Not only that but the length of the trip as well.
And I also experienced serious shaking on a small but powerful does of PR.

I`m not willing to say PR is the most potent but I can say it is deffinatelly an intense powerful guide and experience.


Edited by DERRAYLD (10/17/02 05:33 AM)


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OfflineCharlie_Bucket
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #968421 - 10/17/02 10:29 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I do not see Plantasia Mystery on your poll list. I can not say for sure if one cube
strain is more potent than an other, but I do enjoy the Mystery's trip much more
than any other strain. So I guess that would fall into, I think there are distinct
differences between strain trips. But as for as potentcy i think that is to subjective
to ever answer in a forum, with out measuring psilocybin, and psilocin amounts in
different strains.    :grin: 


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InvisibleDreaMaTrix
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: aural]
    #968742 - 10/17/02 01:03 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

And this debate will do nothing to answer that question.





Even if it doesn't answer the question, it provides a good link to a question that gets asked at least once a week.

Quote:

People who subjectively believe there to be a difference will say yes.
People who,just as subjectively believe there to be no difference,will say no.





Yes, that is the point of the poll.

Quote:

You will have a bunch of subjective data,and probably a few flames thrown in,and be no closer to the answer than you were yesterday.





And maybe some scientific data. :smile:

 


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Anonymous

Re: The great potency debate [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #975663 - 10/19/02 11:46 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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InvisibleDreaMaTrix
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: ]
    #980345 - 10/21/02 06:40 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

The aknowledgment for that list goes to chromed crow.

I borrowed it :smile:



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OfflineTheHobbit
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #1020486 - 11/04/02 11:12 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Good poll, nice to get a little insight into what people think of different strains.


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OfflineInMyVersion
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: TheHobbit]
    #1087423 - 11/26/02 01:08 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I voted puerto rican the most potent, at least from the strains I've tried, not subjectively, but factually.  There is a very simple way for each individual on this forum to semi-scientifically and factually test the potency of your own mushrooms...  That is to do a methanol extraction of the alkaloids and weigh the results...  Since some prefer to eat fresh, and some prefer to eat dry, and given the two alkaloids (psilocin and psilocybin) I will post the method for each:

DRY:

1.  Grind up your dry shrooms to a fine powder.
2.  Place your shroom powder in a glass/flask/container.
3.  Pour in about 10 times the volume of your dry shrooms in annydrous methanol.  If you have 100ml of shroom powder do 1000ml (1 liter) of anhydrous methanol.
Note*  Anhydrous Methanol can be found in your local stores automotive section as yellow HEET.
4.  Stir like hell for as long as you can.  If you have a magnetic stirring plate put the container on the magnetic stirring plate with a stir bar.
5.  Let sit for about 7 days, covered, stirring hard several times a day.  If you have a stirring plate, let it stir on the plate the whole time.
6.  Take a relatively thick coffee filter (#5 or 6 is plenty) and filter all the liquid through it, saving the liquid in a bowl.  Squeeze the filter at the end to try to get most of the remaining liquid, without tearing the filter.
7.  Put the powder back in the soaking container and repeat another one or two times.  You can repeat more to be sure you got it all out, but a 2nd extraction should be plenty.  Continue adding the liquid to the first extraction.
8.  Put the liquid in a glass baking dish or something similar that is easy to scrape and using a fan dry the methanol off.
9.  When all the methanol is gone and there is no more smell of methanol, scrape up the goo that remains.  This is relatively pure psilocybin.
10.  Weigh it, and move on to the next strain, and weigh that.

WET:

1.  Weigh your fresh mushrooms (this is important) in grams.  Make a note of 9/10 the weight.  9/10 the weight of your wet shrooms will contain the same amount of water in milliliters.
2.  Put all your fresh cleaned mushrooms in a blender.
3.  Pour in 10 times as much methanol by volume.
4.  Blend REALLY good.  You don't want to liquify the solid material, but get it to small fine peices.  BTW, this should be done in relatively low light conditions.
5.  Stir as described above, I recommend a magnetic stir plate for this method.
6.  Let stir for about 7 days.
7.  Filter, with a #6 coffee filter (I wouldn't use any other thickness).
8.  Save the liquid in a glass/flask/jar, repeat the process once or twice with the solid matter left over, but don't blend a 2nd time, just stir really hard.
9.  From step one, grab your note of the # of ml of water the mushrooms initially contained.  Measure out approximately half the # of ml in DRY epsom salt.
10.  SLOWLY add your epsom salt to the liquid while STIRRING.  The epsom salts will soak up the water.  Don't add too much  epsom salt or you risk soaking up some of your alkaloids.  You can do a test with straight water to see how much water your epsom salt will soak up before doing this to calculate the correct amount.
11.  After about 5 minutes of stirring, filter again through a #6 coffee filter.
12.  Place your liquid into a drying dish and dry it out with a fan until it no longer smells like methanol at all.
13.  Scrape it up the remaining good stuff, and weigh it.  This is the weight of the combined psilocin and psilocybin.  Keep in mind some psilocin will be lost in the process, but equally so for each strain you test.  Compare your weights.

BTW, as long as you COMPLETELY EVAP ALL the methanol off, the remaining psilocin/psilocybin is edible and unharmed by the methanol.  You have pure alkaloids here, so be careful with how much you ingest.

I have compared Puerto Rican to several other strains, and every time puerto rican comes out way ahead.  I hope this helps people to settle this long lived pissing contest once and for all  :grin:  and removes the subjectivity of the whole deal.  No more matter of opinions  :laugh:


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Invisiblematts
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[Re: InMyVersion]
    #1093481 - 11/28/02 12:22 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)



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OfflineInMyVersion
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: matts]
    #1095566 - 11/29/02 08:37 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

The only things in the mushrooms that are methanol soluble are the alkaloids, so you will have a combination of alkaloids, all which contribute to the trip anyway, but in almost every case 95% or more of it is psilocin/psilocybin. It will definitely give you a sure indication of which is more potent, especially if you do larger extractions.


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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #1227789 - 01/17/03 10:29 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Thinking that different strains do different things is WAY more interesting of course, but I personaly do not see any difference at all...To say that one strain is "dreamy" and another is "more visual" is just nonsense...... Untill theres a real scientific study and not just opinions, I'll continue to ignore it all..... Psilocybin is psilocybin, psilocin is psilocin.


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OfflineChromeCrow
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #1293664 - 02/09/03 03:01 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

in a very unscientific, unplanned test.
i have been letting a certain few friends(same ones)  LOOK at a few shrooms, all grown/dried etc etc exaclty the same, and without knowing the difference, or that i had replaced the strains at all, they ALL commented on how potent the pesa LOOKED. this was after viewing pictures of about  12 strains. :wink:


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: Gumby]
    #1301686 - 02/12/03 06:56 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

i had some eq's once that i think were proof that certain strains are more potent than others, and definetly proved that strains differ from one another in feeling and effects.

I ate 1.5 grams of EQ's once that made me trip about the same as i did when i ate 3.5 grams of thailand koh samui's. The intresting thing about that is that they were grown on the exact same substrate, in the exact same conditions, the two strains both came from the same seller, and they were both dryed the same way. The only thing different was the setting which was during daylight at the park for the thai's, and at night at the beach for the EQ's. I seriously doubt that would make to much of a difference though.

For me that pretty much proves it.


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Edited by JonnyOnTheSpot (02/12/03 07:00 AM)


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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: InMyVersion]
    #1309671 - 02/15/03 11:15 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

a large amount of what is extracted will supposedly be urea, an inactive salt found in mushrooms.


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: TheHobbit]
    #1400112 - 03/22/03 09:37 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Good poll, nice to get a little insight into what people think of different strains.



*bump*


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InvisibleSporeDog
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: shirley knott]
    #1404080 - 03/23/03 06:59 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

this is a good poll


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #1413148 - 03/27/03 05:04 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

what's really interesting is:

least potent strain:
cambodia - 6%

most potent strain:
cambodia - 7%


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OfflinestonErollEr1
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #1416571 - 03/29/03 07:29 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

That has to do with the fact that the cambo are one of the most widespread varaietys.
Argentina for ex. are not as well spread/known...but are in my opinon the MOST
potent strain even more potent than the PR?s.

Peace..


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OfflineDSD
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: stonErollEr1]
    #1419154 - 03/31/03 02:10 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)


i would have to go with any of the thai strains and then the EQ and then maybe the GT, but as has been said growing teks and circumstances play a large role.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: DreaMaTrix]
    #1419867 - 03/31/03 02:51 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The debate is whether there is a potency difference between strains of cubensis.





It's been shown that the potency of mushrooms grown under strictly-controlled laboratory conditions can vary by as much as a factor of four. Those grown by amateurs at home have been shown to vary by as much as a factor of 10.

Given this inherent variability, it seems next to impossible for anyone without a chromatograph and many sample grows to accurately discern whether or not any given strain is consistently more potent than any other.

-Diploid


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Offlinetrev
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: Northernsoul]
    #1438376 - 04/08/03 06:26 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I really like youre extraction tek I`ll try it one day Thankz.


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OfflineBetMomIsProud
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: trev]
    #1609423 - 06/04/03 11:31 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Question: What do you consider potent shrooms? I've NEVER had any visuals off of EQ's (I've had tons of visuals off Cambos, PRs, and B+) but they are without a doubt one of the most f***-you-up shroomies I've ever had. 4 dried grams had me simply drooling, unable to move from the couch for at least 8 hours. The buzz was similar to drinking a fifth, not eating a bag of shrooms. Deffinately potent, just not visual in my opinion.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: BetMomIsProud]
    #1651566 - 06/21/03 06:41 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Thats really interesting. I haven't even tripped yet but I can't wait to try and experiment will all the different strains.


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Offlinejoeinc
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: MOTH]
    #1653015 - 06/22/03 04:58 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The only thing I can say for sure is that any shroom I've had that was
homegrown by freinds was always about 4-5 times more potent that anything I ever baught in college


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Offlinedaba
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: Northernsoul]
    #1655595 - 06/23/03 07:44 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting thread, but there too many confounding variables that make your statistics invalid.

One easy to spot one is already exhibited by the first poll. A lot of shroomers don't have enough experience to pick "The most potent" or "The least potent" psilocybe cubensis. So, to take another step towards credible statistics, you need to get a random sample from people who have eaten all the mushrooms that were availble options to choose from.

On a side note, I personally have tried several (but certainly not all) cubensis, and I have to say Creeper gave me the most intense trip.


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OfflineBplus
Mista Keith
Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 4
Loc: hudson valley--NY
Last seen: 18 years, 15 hours
Re: The great potency debate [Re: Northernsoul]
    #1678563 - 07/02/03 02:03 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

i'd have to agree with the notion that different species provide different trips---oddly enough, ecuador seems to be voted number 1--is this because it really is that strong or because it is a popular strain to grow which happens to have a considerably high potency--i guess we can't really know, but i'll tell you i recently had some of those and for the first time i've taken them they weren't very potentat all--so there


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OfflineTantalus
Beyonddescription.
Registered: 06/05/03
Posts: 747
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: Bplus]
    #1742532 - 07/23/03 09:58 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

The only strains I've tried are Transkei and B+. Both grown under the exact same conditions (they were grown side by side). The B+ are significantly more potent.

I'd like to see a poll about dry vs. wet changing the nature of the trip. I suspect it does, but I'm not experienced enough to say for sure.


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"A nation's hope of lasting peace cannot be firmly based upon any race in armaments but rather upon just relations and honest understanding with all other nations...

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed... The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. We pay for a single fighter with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people..."

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OfflineSev
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 1,426
Loc: NY
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: The great potency debate [Re: Tantalus]
    #1791019 - 08/08/03 04:55 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Someone's got to set up a relational quiz -- list all the strains, and have people rate the ones they've done in a relational way.  You could do this with drop boxes...

[South Africans] are [more] potent than [South Americans] for example.

This way, even people with a relatively small amount of experience could have something to add.

If you wanted to make it more multidimensional, you could have people rate the more subjective aspects of the strains -- ie, [X] is more potent [mentally, physically, visually] than [Y]

This would take a little bit of coding, but it'd be fantastic if someone set up a site with this.

Eventually, you'd have a list where you could say "Most people say this mushroom is better/worse than this mushroom".

No, I'm not volunteering.  :wink:


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"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.


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OfflineRuNE
bomberman

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Re: The great potency debate [Re: Sev]
    #1931869 - 09/19/03 10:47 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)


Sev:  Thats a really good idea.

After about a thousand votes, i'm sure certain statistics would start to stand out.

:thumbup:



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Offlineyabo1
Stranger
Registered: 02/16/05
Posts: 30
Last seen: 9 months, 27 days
Re: The great potency debate [Re: RuNE]
    #4367537 - 07/03/05 11:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

PENIS ENVY
GEEZ FELLAS


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Offlinerushin
Stranger
Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 1
Last seen: 16 years, 16 days
Re: The great potency debate [Re: yabo1]
    #4408903 - 07/15/05 07:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

like everybody said, you can't really tell because there's too many factors that influence the expirience. Also the content ration of different psychoactives within the shroom. I know One general fact though is the size matter. Smaller sized shrooms are usually more potent then bigger ones.


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OfflineGNIOM1498
Death Cup
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 945
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Re: The great potency debate [Re: rushin]
    #4414687 - 07/17/05 02:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I can tell a huge differenc in strains. Taz are amazingly potent my fav. B+ and cambodians are decent. Texas and EQ suck ass.


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