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Offlinepiracetam
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Sacrebleu]
    #9657318 - 01/22/09 07:27 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sacrebleu said:
3 - obesity isn't generally inherited.





yeah?

*wonders why researchers in a recent study attributed obesity to 40% genetic factors*

metabolism is most certainly genetically inherited and expressed. (genetics also plays a role in thyroid issues)

otherwise people like oprah wouldn't be frustrated by losing weight, then gaining it back; same with the obese people on that ridiculous show my wife likes to watch.

it's already been touched upon, and rightfully so...technology has been exploited  to mass-market convenience.
and it would take a catastrophic change in environment to  initiate another leap in evolution, which would occur in surviving populations  over a long period of time

Edited by piracetam (01/22/09 07:41 AM)

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Offlinemaysrome
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Sacrebleu]
    #9657866 - 01/22/09 10:25 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

People view themselves as the supreme being of the land, and while we are, I just want to point out Coco the gorilla. She has been taught over years sign language, and knows over 1,500 words. Not only this, they've also learned that Coco can describe all of her emotions to people and communicate conversationally. Coco was even given a kitten for her birthday, and when it died, they said Coco did this: She looked down very sad like, but her hand on her heart, and said "Coco's heart hurts." I dunno about you guys, but this baffled me a bit. Sorry for changing the subject, but what I'm saying is, add that to your thoughts on your next trip and tell me what you make of it, lolz.


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Es muss sein?!

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OfflineNeuron
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: maysrome]
    #9657926 - 01/22/09 10:36 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

LAWLZ, I heard about that a long time ago.

I don't see how that relates to humans. Thread is not "Progression of the Ape species"


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Offlinemaysrome
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9657947 - 01/22/09 10:40 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LAWLZ, I heard about that a long time ago.

I don't see how that relates to humans. Thread is not "Progression of the Ape species"




I know, I know. The things been going on 20+ years.

It's not really relating to humans, but something someone said in the thread reminded me of this scenario. Again, sorry for the subject change.


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Es muss sein?!

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Offlineflip3084
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9657948 - 01/22/09 10:41 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Neuron said:


Humans were designed to live in a competitive environment. Technically, there are not supposed to be hospitals, vaccines, medicines, and such readily available food(restaurants/markets/any venue where food can be purchased.)






Ok, so before reading the rest I want to comment on a small flaw here. Your post  read the digression of the human species, Which implies that there was progress.. Which implies an evolution of the human mind. But then in your second paragraph you start by saying we were designed, which implies an intelligent behind the scenes manufacturer.. Evolution, and creationism, haven't really been sucessfully molded yet. They are quite different.


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Nam-myoho-renge-kyo

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Offlineflip3084
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9658305 - 01/22/09 11:36 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

<But it is not the case, obviously. We have doctors to prescribe us to get corrective vision if we have poor eyesight, so having good eyesight gives us no selective advantage to prosper over people with bad vision. Therefore, using my vision example, bad genes can and is being passed down from generation to generation.>
Without the second paragraph, this works well with the thread title. It is true. But Our true progession is in the mind. Which allows us to have hospitals, where those who would have died from simple things, no longer have to.


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Nam-myoho-renge-kyo

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InvisibleKukaracha
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: flip3084]
    #9659093 - 01/22/09 01:55 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I see a strong ethnocentrism in your post, Neuron.

There are humans who are not American (or European, whatever rich area you considered as "the world"). As for the earth on its whole, it looks like a small percentage is getting richer, but most of the humanity is not. Most of humanity doesn't have the commodities you are talking about. And they are not likely to have them, right now.


About evolution:

We are on the top of the food chain, we don't need evolution. Plus, it seems like we are getting more and more distant with nature. We are starting to understand our pulsions and instincts, and many codes rule our lives. We don't live with nature anymore.
We still belong to nature though, and we will probably forever. There will always be something natural in us.

I think your teacher is right. We are changing. Our environment is different. Our morphology will adapt itself to urban life. We'll be physically weaker. Hairless. Probably pretty pale. Our vision will diminuish.
That is evolution. Evolution is not necessarily progress. Progress needs criteria, a definition of what is "better". Evolution doesn't.



A question though : could humankind control every evolution? Would they still be humans? Or will humans be what apes are to us? Funny thought, but somewhat freathening for a small individual like me. Just imagine!

I think I'd be pretty cool to build up what would be our future morality.

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OfflineDroneLore
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9659137 - 01/22/09 02:00 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Neuron said:
LAWLZ, I heard about that a long time ago.

I don't see how that relates to humans. Thread is not "Progression of the Ape species"




You're really starting to show your ignorance here man. Humans are apes.

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InvisibleKukaracha
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: DroneLore]
    #9659230 - 01/22/09 02:15 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think so, humans are humans, apes are apes, tigers are tigers and cats are cats.

It does show interesting things, but nothing like "humans = apes".
Because humans = apes = tigers = cats = animals = bunch of cells... and so on. This remark is not very relevant.

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OfflineDroneLore
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Kukaracha]
    #9659769 - 01/22/09 03:48 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

"Ape" isn't a species; it's a way of categorizing species. To say that humans aren't apes is akin to saying they aren't animals. A cat is not an ape because it lacks the traits that are characteristic of apes.

I suppose it would have been more correct for me to say, "humans are hominidae." This brings us to the same place though, just with a different set of syllables.

'A hominid is any member of the biological family Hominidae (the "great apes"), including the extinct and extant humans, chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans. This classification has been revised several times in the last few decades. These various revisions have led to a varied use of the word "hominid": the original meaning of Hominidae referred only to the modern meaning of Hominina, i.e. only humans and their closest relatives. The meaning of the taxon changed gradually, leading to the modern meaning of "hominid," which includes all great apes.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominid

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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: DroneLore]
    #9660422 - 01/22/09 05:33 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Humans were designed to live in a competitive environment.




Since self interest can be a cause unto itself, I believe that humans excel more, where liberties are greater.

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Kukaracha]
    #9660762 - 01/22/09 06:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

one path to species diversification is the colonization of distant planets, planets that are so far away that the physical migration of genes would not ocur between the colony and home.

Of course in a few million years, when the differention of species occurs, technology and culture will have changed in ways that we cannot imagine. Perhaps people will use replicators to make dna sequences for invitro fertilization. The family unit could change so that you are geneticly composed of two fathers and two mothers, who raise you in some kind weird family structure. By then the human race will have had a chance to fully understand psychedelics and the psychedelic state - who knows what impact those lessons will have on the great mass.

Without some kind of active breeding program, we will have no control of our genetic future. We do have have breeding programs. These rank you on your status within the society and make sure you mate with someone of a particular background, with particular prospects for the future.

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InvisibleKukaracha
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: DroneLore]
    #9664509 - 01/23/09 10:34 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DroneLore said:
"Ape" isn't a species; it's a way of categorizing species. To say that humans aren't apes is akin to saying they aren't animals. A cat is not an ape because it lacks the traits that are characteristic of apes.

I suppose it would have been more correct for me to say, "humans are hominidae." This brings us to the same place though, just with a different set of syllables.




Read again, you missed the point.

Quote:

Kukaracha said:
I don't think so, humans are humans, apes are apes, tigers are tigers and cats are cats.




I would also say that humans or way too complex, you can't just say "hey they're apes".
We have :
                                                  Humans
Animals  ->  Hominidae<
                                                  Gorillas

And humans went further into evolution; therefore, studying gorillas will only let us think about our past.

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Offlineigwna
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9665108 - 01/23/09 12:49 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Neuron said:
Im writing this in an area that is not my home, so perhaps this will not come out as perfect as I had thought in my minds eye last night(when it was supposed to be written). This version may be a bit more condensed.

Humans were designed to live in a competitive environment. Technically, there are not supposed to be hospitals, vaccines, medicines, and such readily available food(restaurants/markets/any venue where food can be purchased.)

But it is not the case, obviously. We have doctors to prescribe us to get corrective vision if we have poor eyesight, so having good eyesight gives us no selective advantage to prosper over people with bad vision. Therefore, using my vision example, bad genes can and is being passed down from generation to generation.

Statistically speaking, lower income/education families tend to have more children than do upper class/higher education families. So again, this is another disadvantage to the "progression of the human", in my eyes. I once again recently had another conversation with my Neuroscience teacher, and mentioned this. He defined progression as "change", while I see "progression" more along the lines of advancement. When I think of progression, I think of, for example; a species becoming more intelligent, more physically fit, more strategic--or better in some way.

With the obesity rate over 60% in adults; I only see the majority of humans going in a downward spiral. Obviously there can only be advancements in technology, but I am talking about society as a whole. Its a bit worrisome. In what possible ways can we evolve, when there really is no selective advantage for evolution?

For any who care to flame me, perhaps itd be more constructive to share your views versus shooting down mine. =)




I've thought about this before. Its no longer survival of the fittest. Our species is not becoming "better" (I use this word lightly) because we can not weed out the "weak."

We can only hope we're moving in the right direction.



Hell, fight club style, back to the primitive style seems like a pretty legit way to do it though.

Interesting thought, thanks for sharing. :sun:


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I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.


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Offlinepiracetam
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: igwna]
    #9665153 - 01/23/09 12:56 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

you're not your fucking khakis.


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"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is just poetry, imagination." ~Max Planck

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Offlinecake is a lie
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9665772 - 01/23/09 02:45 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think we have broken away from natural selection or evolution.  natural selection is based around balance and we are far from that.

humans like all animals have bust and boom cycles. the boom part of the cycle is where there is a shit ton of us and we are doing every well for our selves while the bust is the opposite. an example of the boom would be where we are right now and a bust would be like; if our population was at 9 billion and our planet could only support 4.5 billion a whole cascade of shit will hit the fan and a lot of people will die.the superior genes (with the help of luck) are embraced by the species while the unlucky and crap are cut off through the cycle.

it just seems like humans have a extremely long, very massive cycle probably spanning around 1000-2000 years at times. so has evolution stopped because people with horrible genes aren't getting killed? no. we are simply in a time of great prosperity and when the prosperous times pass mother nature will do some spring cleaning so to speak.
its cruel but shit happens.


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The Voice: It is the Broodwich, forged in darkness from wheat harvested in Hell's half-acre, baked by Beelzebub, slathered with mayonnaise beaten from the evil eggs of dark chicken forced into sauce by the hands of a one-eyed madman, cheese boiled from the rancid teat of a fanged cow, layered with six-hundred and sixty-six separate meats from an animal which has maggots for blood!

Frylock: [long pause] See... told ya.

Master Shake: I tasted mustard.

The Voice: Yeah... DIJON mustard!

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Offlinebmy
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: cake is a lie]
    #9665840 - 01/23/09 03:00 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I'm pretty sure that genetic evolution is going to be something of the past in a couple of years (five, ten or maybe even 50) since we will probably be able to alter our own genes. As others have said before me, we've gone past the old way of evolution. Our evolution is now in our technology and knowladge. Our tools and minds define us, not our bodies.

So what if the less intelligent have more kids. We are constantly growing in numbers, and that includes the tool-creators (what I guess some would call the more intelligent) too. They might be less in relative numbers, but they'll grow in absolute numbers. Our technolgy evolves expontensially fast, you should really not be concerned about the human race going stupid (as in the movie Idiocracy).

What I worry about, personaly, is the oposit. I worry that our technolgy (aka. our tools) are going to evolve pass ourself. It's already happening, most people don't have a clue of how a computer works.

Don't give a gun to a monkey.


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Edited by bmy (01/23/09 03:03 PM)

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Offlinebmy
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: bmy]
    #9665871 - 01/23/09 03:08 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I would also like to point out that evolution doesn't have a design or goal. You might think that being smart, strong and having good eye-sight is desirable, but evolution has no such subjective opinions. When time comes for the "spring cleaning", as cake is a lie so gracefully put it, it might be the fat stupid bastered that you disgrace who is the fittest :smile:


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OfflineLSDreamer
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Re: The digression of the Human Species (moved) [Re: Neuron]
    #9665895 - 01/23/09 03:12 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

This thread was moved from The Psychedelic Experience.

Reason:
This belongs in P&S, I think.

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Desos]
    #9666047 - 01/23/09 03:36 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Desos said:
natural selection, survival of the fittest, are systems based through fear.  fear drives us to survive.  fear of death, fear of predation, fear of starvation.  fear motivates us.  fear kills us, fear develops us.

but then something amazing happened.

there came to be more than fear: love.

we advanced -- somewhat -- beyond that primitive system of natural selection.  we were able to solidify our needs, to advance beyond fear.  we began to live more and more through love.  now instead of just letting others die we reach out and a hand and help them, because of love.  we are by no means there all the way, we are only at the beginning.  but we are finally getting there.

our evolution no longer has to be based through natural selection and fear, it can now be based through love.  it is no longer a physical evolution, but a spiritual evolution. :peace:




When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius
The age of Aquarius
Aquarius!
Aquarius!

Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revalation
And the mind's true liberation
Aquarius!
Aquarius!

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius
The age of Aquarius
Aquarius!
Aquarius!


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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