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Offlinepiracetam
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9655568 - 01/21/09 10:15 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

i think it all went to shit when businesses got a stranglehold of media, especially the entertainment industry.
have you seen some of this mind-numbing shit on network tv ?! my fucking god..


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"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is just poetry, imagination." ~Max Planck

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InvisibleSentient#6
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: piracetam]
    #9655775 - 01/21/09 10:43 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Mass extinction is on it's way.

Worry not.


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Last night I was honored with the Nobel Prize in theoretical physics. This worldwide recognition has given me the opportunity to bring hope to a war-ravaged world. I vowed to myself I would work like a dog at this. But now, it's 10:30 in the morning and I'm just getting out of bed. I did get up earlier around 8:00am, but I just lied in bed for a while, and then...jerked off. I've got to stop masturbating, it makes me too lazy. Stop it Albert...stop it.

  ~Albert Einstein.

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Offlinepiracetam
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Sentient#6]
    #9655784 - 01/21/09 10:45 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I hope it takes dancing with the stars and american idol with it.

and PLEEASE.. please kill off the people who like talk like this, "like, I was like..NO WAY.." and like everything is said with an upward inflection (?) as if it sounds inquisitive (?)

the death of eloquent speech in contemporary society occurred some time in the latter part of the last millenium.


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"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is just poetry, imagination." ~Max Planck

Edited by piracetam (01/21/09 10:53 PM)

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InvisibleSentient#6
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: piracetam]
    #9655794 - 01/21/09 10:47 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

And 60%+ of the human race.

It's just the cycle.

This one should be the most interesting though.


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Last night I was honored with the Nobel Prize in theoretical physics. This worldwide recognition has given me the opportunity to bring hope to a war-ravaged world. I vowed to myself I would work like a dog at this. But now, it's 10:30 in the morning and I'm just getting out of bed. I did get up earlier around 8:00am, but I just lied in bed for a while, and then...jerked off. I've got to stop masturbating, it makes me too lazy. Stop it Albert...stop it.

  ~Albert Einstein.

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OfflineDroneLore
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Registered: 01/04/09
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9655803 - 01/21/09 10:49 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


Humans were designed to live in a competitive environment. Technically, there are not supposed to be hospitals, vaccines, medicines, and such readily available food(restaurants/markets/any venue where food can be purchased.)




This is your first logical fallacy. Hospitals...etc benefit everybody, our fitness as individuals in advance so we function collectively. Reciprocal altruism is a huge part of how human morality evolved. In addition to this, health care isn't free--someone is profiting from it. So it isn't entirely altruistic to begin with.

Quote:


But it is not the case, obviously. We have doctors to prescribe us to get corrective vision if we have poor eyesight, so having good eyesight gives us no selective advantage to prosper over people with bad vision. Therefore, using my vision example, bad genes can and is being passed down from generation to generation.



Glasses also give people with boatloads of inherent talent to prosper, in which case they're more likely to have less children. So I guess either way this one goes to you. :P
Quote:


Statistically speaking, lower income/education families tend to have more children than do upper class/higher education families. So again, this is another disadvantage to the "progression of the human", in my eyes. I once again recently had another conversation with my Neuroscience teacher, and mentioned this. He defined progression as "change", while I see "progression" more along the lines of advancement. When I think of progression, I think of, for example; a species becoming more intelligent, more physically fit, more strategic--or better in some way.




The traits you list are as only useful insofar as they allow an organism to thrive in a given environment. It's not that hard to imagine a scenario where intelligence (including strategic ability), and physical fitness (at least insofar as it applies to humans. In the context of evolution, "physical fitness" can be just about anything.)would be selected against in favor of other traits, just as being able to survive in an atmosphere that would be inhospitable to humans. There is no progression in evolution; those species which are best suited to their environment thrive. Those are ill-suited will change or become extinct.
Quote:


With the obesity rate over 60% in adults; I only see the majority of humans going in a downward spiral. Obviously there can only be advancements in technology, but I am talking about society as a whole. Its a bit worrisome. In what possible ways can we evolve, when there really is no selective advantage for evolution?

For any who care to flame me, perhaps itd be more constructive to share your views versus shooting down mine. =)




Humanity is pretty fucked up, no question about it. But this has more to do with cultural factors than strictly evolutionary ones.

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Offlinemaysrome
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: DroneLore]
    #9655838 - 01/21/09 10:54 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

What an epic twenty fifth post.


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Es muss sein?!

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Offlineyageman
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: pfxtc]
    #9655934 - 01/21/09 11:09 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pfxtc said:
yageman

i can never get over

how you talk

like this,

but it's ok, bec

ause

i do

..

it,

too

like

will_i_am                                s?

hatner.




You have a problem with how I type my words not how I talk.

I feel I need to break it up a bit because it adds a certain structure to these online conversations.

I speak in metaphores sometimes but I seem like a good guy, because thats what you said.

STOP MAKING SHITTY NOOB POSTS!

Just kidding.

On with the digression of the human species as some of you suckers believe in.

lol


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[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

Edited by yageman (01/21/09 11:12 PM)

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OfflineNeuron
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: maysrome]
    #9655954 - 01/21/09 11:12 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, I suppose there really isn't anything we can do or say to change what is our world.

It just would be nice to imagine if things were the way they were supposed to be; the way it works with ALL animals. Competition. If you include homeless into the big picture, there really is no competition for humans. If you want food, maybe one can dive in a trashbin and hope to get lucky.

and to the person ridiculing me for my "headline" or whatever that says "the intellectual". I wrote that there because I think it represents my personality. I don't see what's wrong with that, maybe the article "an" would have saved the teenage drama? "An Intellectual" a bit less threatening? A bit less conceited? Who cares, it's just a headline.


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OfflineSacrebleu
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: yageman]
    #9655959 - 01/21/09 11:14 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry Neuron, your argument is fallacious...

1 - evolution happens over hundreds of thousands of years...and that's just slight physical changes. Society, as a whole, has advanced more in many ways in the last couple hundred years than the rest of human existence. And you think that's a bad thing?

2 - we have something called laws, and human rights, and socialism, and protection of the weak by the strong. Do children choose to be born? No. You can't fault people for being born to parents with crappy genes. I mean, put yourself in their shoes. You should consider, what if you were born in their place instead? That's a part of justice and that's what creates a stable society. A society is strong when its stable and happy - not because there's a bunch of individuals running around with bad genes. Well...you can see where I'm getting at with this.

3 - obesity isn't generally inherited. It's usually a result of bad diet and exercise. This is a personal choice. How does this relate to your argument?

4 - as argued above, our intelligence holds us in better stead than our physical traits. The tools and technology we've invented have done stuff that brawn never could. Hey, what's your issue with hospitals? So do you propose we evolve some kind of Wolverine-style mutant healing ability rather than things like disinfectants or CPR or surgery to keep us alive? Right......

What's your issue with supermarkets? It's an evolution of its own really. It's just the path that the invisible hand of economics has ultimately led us to facilitate the best or near best way to provide food for city dwellers in a society that divides labour, meaning we don't all provide our own food anymore. I don't see how this supports your argument either, really. Food technology as a field doesn't fit in with your evolution thing at all. I think you'd rather we were all still hunters/gatherers, right? And evolve a way to hunt and gather faster? And evolve some kind of way to fish without nets and boats and other tools because that's using our brains instead of evolving up some supermuscles or something, I suppose?


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I have no funny saying. I have no quote. I have no ASCII art. I have no video. I have no meme. I have no bolded or italicized font.

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Offlinemaysrome
It is a disgusting sandwich.
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Sacrebleu]
    #9655996 - 01/21/09 11:21 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Here's also a little throw in, but I believe that just a couple of thousand years ago around the end of the B.C's humans were usually a foot or two shorter than they are now.


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Es muss sein?!

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Offlineyageman
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: maysrome]
    #9656010 - 01/21/09 11:23 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

nice


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[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

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OfflineNeuron
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9656024 - 01/21/09 11:25 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Well firstly; you say obesity is never genetic. What about metabolism? Some people are born obese and have a very hard time getting the weight off. People have different theorized settling points, etc.

You make it sound like I want to digress from supermarkets/hospitals to ancient medicinal herbs and hunting/gathering.

It's all perspective, in my opinion. Couldn't you as well focus on the absolute STUPIDITY(opinion) of people revolving their worlds around shopping/sex/movies/work? We're consumerist whores. We are focused more on how we look to others than we are about self advancement. Of course there will be exceptions! Of course not everyone is a consumerist whore, but I'm talking about the majority here.

Shall I name a few?
Sex and the City.
the iPod

All we seem to care about now a days is what we own or possess. We've done wonders in technological advances; but society's values as a whole?

Go to work. Get laid. Get Drunk. Party. Go to work. Get laid. Get Drunk. Party.

Pretty impressive if you ask me.

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OfflineSacrebleu
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9656025 - 01/21/09 11:25 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Neuron said:

It just would be nice to imagine if things were the way they were supposed to be; the way it works with ALL animals. Competition. If you include homeless into the big picture, there really is no competition for humans. If you want food, maybe one can dive in a trashbin and hope to get lucky.




What do you mean, "supposed" to be? Why is something "supposed" to be whatever YOU happen to think it should be?

The way society works now is generally what its supposed to be. Because the way society works now is the way people want it to be like. (Mostly, anyway. I'm not saying we don't have problems). See, most people aren't what you call upper class. Most people have to make do with what little they have. And they don't want to be trodden on by the upper class on top of that nonsense. Luckily there's more lower classes than upper. So people elect someone who manages society in a way the lower classes and minorities (what you look down upon as the crappy gene people, right?) think will benefit them. So that's why we tolerate the so-called eugenically inferior folks. Also the fact that they keep society running smoothly, just as much as the eugenically superior people, don't they?

I'm sorry but you can't ditch our brains like that. I'm sure you'd think it's great to live in a lawless, mindless, anarchical society where people kill each other over scraps of meat and old televisions or something...but in such a society, no one would have the incentive to get anything productive or useful done, and I'm sure you'll still be fantastically happy when you discover a knife in your back ten minutes later because someone wanted to steal your wallet, then casually rape your girlfriend.


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OfflineNeuron
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Sacrebleu]
    #9656047 - 01/21/09 11:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Now that's the type of argument I wanted to hear. I accept those points. Thank you.


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OfflineNeuron
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9656056 - 01/21/09 11:33 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

The way I was looking at this issue at first was that humans have "cheated the system" of survival of the fittest.

However, you bring up an excellent point--it would be near impossible to evolve intellectually(for the percentage who choose to do so) if we always had to worry about being attacked.

I suppose my disappointment lies within society.


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OfflineSacrebleu
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9656076 - 01/21/09 11:37 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Neuron said:
Well firstly; you say obesity is never genetic. What about metabolism? Some people are born obese and have a very hard time getting the weight off. People have different theorized settling points, etc.

You make it sound like I want to digress from supermarkets/hospitals to ancient medicinal herbs and hunting/gathering.





I didn't say never genetic if you check back at what I wrote. I do know some cases can be, but I think most cases are not. Just the result of a lifestyle choice, as I said. After all, the numbers are just too high to be accounted for purely by some inheritable condition or another, and are strangely exclusive to developed countries with high numbers of white collar workers....


Quote:

Neuron said:

It's all perspective, in my opinion. Couldn't you as well focus on the absolute STUPIDITY(opinion) of people revolving their worlds around shopping/sex/movies/work? We're consumerist whores. We are focused more on how we look to others than we are about self advancement. Of course there will be exceptions! Of course not everyone is a consumerist whore, but I'm talking about the majority here.

Shall I name a few?
Sex and the City.
the iPod

All we seem to care about now a days is what we own or possess. We've done wonders in technological advances; but society's values as a whole?

Go to work. Get laid. Get Drunk. Party. Go to work. Get laid. Get Drunk. Party.

Pretty impressive if you ask me.




I think you've been reading too much Clive Hamilton or Naomi Klein :P

As far as I can tell, humans have mostly always revolved their lives around work, sex, and cheap entertainment. Look back in history. People worked, ate, slept, and visited the occasional whorehouse or whatever they usually had to do in their society to get some poon. Sex in the City is just a form of storytelling which is an ancient art that humans have always enjoyed. iPod's just a modern way to play music, another ancient entertainment for human beings. Whatever malaise you think is in today's society is exaggerated. It's the same as ever, really.

Don't put us humans down too much. Some of us find more meaning in life than hedonistic activities. Even if we don't seem to on the surface.


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OfflineSacrebleu
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Sacrebleu]
    #9656088 - 01/21/09 11:41 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Interesting discussion though :smile:


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OfflineNeuron
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9656157 - 01/21/09 11:56 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Humans are always put on an egotistical pedestel(sp?). I figured it would be a bit refreshing to have a negative thread on humans for once.


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OfflineSacrebleu
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9656295 - 01/22/09 12:18 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Neuron said:
Humans are always put on an egotistical pedestel(sp?). I figured it would be a bit refreshing to have a negative thread on humans for once.




Compared to the millions of other organisms on this planet? I agree there. Or compared to the millions of humans who don't share the conveniences of things like hospitals or supermarkets? I agree there too. We humans take many things for granted and most of the time our priorities are screwed up. I think it's easy to dislike humans, really. On a more personal level, I dislike people the most for their pretenses and superficiality and close mindedness and all the other crappy neurotic things you have to deal with in everyday life. Heh. I'm the last person to write a defense for humanity (although I don't want to discount the good things that humans do, either).

The human condition. Sigh.


--------------------
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OfflineNeuron
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Re: The digression of the Human Species [Re: Neuron]
    #9656366 - 01/22/09 12:28 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, I cannot apologize for having close minded or ignorant views to some; as ignorance is merely a lack of knowledge. You've brought up very valid points as I've previously mentioned.

Well, nothing can be perfect- I guess I should be happy for what exists.


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