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OfflineChrisWho
Psilosopher

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 426
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated
    #9630413 - 01/18/09 06:20 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Hello all. A foaf is thinking of starting his first bulk grow very soon. He has read alot on this site that helped him become successful with both, cakes and casings, and now he is interested in stepping up his game a little bit.

He will be using quart jars of WBS for spawn.

His supposed substrate ratios are as follows:

24q-Eco Earth Coir
6q- Hydrated Verm
5q- Worm Castings
5q- Used Coffee Grounds
2q- Gypsum

Does this sound like a good mix? He tried to find Kelp Meal and other additives as well, but in the end this is what he came up with.

He says he is planning to use roughly 12 quarts of spawn to the afore mentioned substrate.
Coir bricks will be hydrated using "worm tea" made with probably 6 cups of castings to 3 gallons of water simmered for an hour and a half. 2 and 1/2 gallons will be used for hydration.
After hydration he plans to let the coir dry, and then add his extra nutes, and bring to field capacity with the remaining half gallon of "worm tea". Then pasteurize.

For the incubation/fruiting chamber he was thinking of using a tub approx. 12"hx13"wx30"l. He was thinking maybe he would cover the top with press n seal, and poke holes covered with micro pore for gas exchange during incubation.
For fruiting he saw a thread in the archives where someone had used a cool mist connected to the FC ran 24/7 with great success. Could my FOAF do this as well? What would keep his FC from getting over saturated?

Any feedback on his plan would be greatly appreciated.


--------------------
Drugs don't have spiritual potential, human beings have spiritual potential. And it may be that we need techniques to move us in that direction, and the use of psychoactive drugs clearly is one path that has helped many people.
-Andrew Weil

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OfflineChrisWho
Psilosopher

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 426
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: ChrisWho]
    #9630559 - 01/18/09 07:19 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Anyone think this sounds like a good/bad idea? Any suggestions at all?


--------------------
Drugs don't have spiritual potential, human beings have spiritual potential. And it may be that we need techniques to move us in that direction, and the use of psychoactive drugs clearly is one path that has helped many people.
-Andrew Weil

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Offline3nD
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Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: ChrisWho]
    #9630562 - 01/18/09 07:19 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I've done similar grows with success.  Horse shit is a very very nice substrate ingredient and I always use it. Horse shit shrooms are always potent enough to make you go fetal.  The cool mist running for 24 hours straight in a large Martha style greenhouse is absolutely fine and some well respected growers on this site also find it beneficial to also add intermittent blasts of fog from an ultrasonic.  However if your FC is a large sterelite tub a cool mist should not run constantly (it's really not even necessary with tub methods).  Get a good hygrometer (pet store reptile hygrometers are good) and you can be sure of your RH throughout the greenhouse.


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"Where there is a stink of shit there is a smell of being” -Antonin Artaud

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Invisiblersr
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Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 42
Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: ChrisWho]
    #9630569 - 01/18/09 07:21 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Can't say that I'm very experienced at this after having only three months of experience growing cubes.  But I've had success with cubes (over a pound dried), and yesterday I got my first pan cyan syringe.

I am at this moment getting ready to PC my WBS and inoculate those jars and a couple of master LC's later today.

Anyway, to your question.  It is my understanding, from reading here, that pan cyans like or need horse manure.  So, maybe you want to search that idea.  Or maybe someone with experience growing cyans can tell you.  But I believe that is what I've mostly seen -- that they need horse manure.

Good luck on your grow.

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OfflineChrisWho
Psilosopher

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 426
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: 3nD]
    #9630592 - 01/18/09 07:28 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

My friend used a Martha in the past for casings, but had to get rid of it... He'd like to use poo,  but he's finding it kinda hard to gather. I feel that where he lives, his appearance alone would send up some red flags if he went up to someone's door and asked to gather up some sh!t...

So you think the humidifier is unnecessary? The guy in the archive had altogether used I think like 48qts substrate and came out with like 19 oz of dried mushies from a first flush alone... Think my friend could could have large yields like this without the poo and humidifier... I guess he could always order some poo online before it comes time for the spawn run.


--------------------
Drugs don't have spiritual potential, human beings have spiritual potential. And it may be that we need techniques to move us in that direction, and the use of psychoactive drugs clearly is one path that has helped many people.
-Andrew Weil

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OfflineChrisWho
Psilosopher

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 426
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: rsr]
    #9630599 - 01/18/09 07:32 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

rsr said:
Can't say that I'm very experienced at this after having only three months of experience growing cubes.  But I've had success with cubes (over a pound dried), and yesterday I got my first pan cyan syringe.

I am at this moment getting ready to PC my WBS and inoculate those jars and a couple of master LC's later today.

Anyway, to your question.  It is my understanding, from reading here, that pan cyans like or need horse manure.  So, maybe you want to search that idea.  Or maybe someone with experience growing cyans can tell you.  But I believe that is what I've mostly seen -- that they need horse manure.

Good luck on your grow.




Ya, I knew Cyans needed doo-doo, but for this grow my friend just ordered some Eq's & PE's ... Well not both for this grow but one or the other....

Thanks though. My friend tried Pan. Cam's once, but he made pf style poo jars, that me thinks weren't properly hydrated, and stalled before complete colonization. He plans on trying again in the near future tho...


--------------------
Drugs don't have spiritual potential, human beings have spiritual potential. And it may be that we need techniques to move us in that direction, and the use of psychoactive drugs clearly is one path that has helped many people.
-Andrew Weil

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Offline3nD
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Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: ChrisWho]
    #9630611 - 01/18/09 07:41 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not sure where you live but a drive to a horse stable is a good option.  Just advise them that you are gathering horsepoo for your new compost pile your making for your garden.  Just play the hippy Gardner role, be smart wear a pair of jeans and some boots, maybe some kinda brimmed hippy hat.  I've never once been turned down while doing this and in fact I've met two pretty cool stable owners who are always thrilled to see the crazy hippy take their shit away for free.  On the other hand there are good vendors here who sell pre-pasteurized horsepoo and that can make things more simple/certain.  The humidifier is unnecessary using a mon or double tub method, I've had great success using double tubs with nothing but 4 2" polyfill holes drilled in the sides of each double tub.  The moisture from the substrate is sufficient to facilitate fruiting conditions.  That being said, alot of people find that the introduction of a cool mist to the tub set-ups enhances yields.  I don't know you be the judge, it's pretty damn easy to stuff four holes with poly-fill and not have to mess with it, you can easily run more tubs with less effort thus offsetting any potential advantages that the addition of a cool mist might provide.  The greatest asset of the tub methods are their ease and lack of maintenance, if your gonna mess with modifying a cool mist ya might as well go for a greenhouse.


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"Where there is a stink of shit there is a smell of being” -Antonin Artaud

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Invisiblersr
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Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 42
Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: ChrisWho]
    #9630616 - 01/18/09 07:44 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know where you live, but just outside of the fairly big city where I work is a stable, and they have a sign that says "free compost", which is actually what they clean out of the stables.  I pulled in there and didn't meet a sole, just pitchforked some into my pickup and left.  Of course it wasn't the good dried stuff, but I left it in my yard and used a garden hose to spray it down and leach all the ammonia out of it and it works pretty good.

Can't see spending all that money for something you can probably get for free if you look.  Just look in the phone book under riding lessons or stables and give them a call.  Tell them some bullshit story, like your wife is into this organic gardening shit and wants hpoo for something.  I'll bet they say "come and get all you want".

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Invisiblersr
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Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 42
Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: rsr]
    #9630619 - 01/18/09 07:45 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

someone's a faster typer than me.  Everytime I try to answer, I've been beat to the punch.

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OfflineChrisWho
Psilosopher

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 426
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: rsr]
    #9630625 - 01/18/09 07:49 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I'll have to look in the phone book like you suggested... Seems easy enough.

I'd really like to resurrect the closet, but the woman won't have it. Thinks it's blatantly obvious... Oh, well. I still kinda want to run the humidifier, but the only problem is that mine is an ultrasonic coolmist. What is the difference? I'll probably end up leaving it out, just to make this first attempt easier, but I'm definitely going to try it in the future... at least once.


--------------------
Drugs don't have spiritual potential, human beings have spiritual potential. And it may be that we need techniques to move us in that direction, and the use of psychoactive drugs clearly is one path that has helped many people.
-Andrew Weil

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Offline3nD
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Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 118
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: ChrisWho]
    #9630661 - 01/18/09 08:08 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Ha Ha yea the greenhouse is very obvious, closets do a good job of hiding them from plain view but I understand that concern.  Considering space is an issue perhaps the addition of a cool mist would be advantageous (if bulk is the goal).  Another thing to consider though... if stealth is an issue the sound the cool mist makes could potentially get the operation discovered.

The ultrasonic produces fog and the plain cool mist produces a mist less foggy and more misty?, I guess you would say.


--------------------
"Where there is a stink of shit there is a smell of being” -Antonin Artaud

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OfflineChrisWho
Psilosopher

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 426
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: 3nD]
    #9630671 - 01/18/09 08:11 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

The room will be locked most times, and there's a fan and computer running in the room as well, so I'm thinking the motorized sound wouldn't be too overpowering. If the ultrasonic was used should it run 24/7 or be on a timer? If on a timer how often should it come on and for how long? And if it is on all the time should holes be added to the tub for exhaust?


--------------------
Drugs don't have spiritual potential, human beings have spiritual potential. And it may be that we need techniques to move us in that direction, and the use of psychoactive drugs clearly is one path that has helped many people.
-Andrew Weil

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OfflineShrink
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Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 1,119
Loc: bay area
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Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: ChrisWho]
    #9630704 - 01/18/09 08:19 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

If your computer is within 10-20 feet of the set up it should make it inconspicuous.

As for the manure, google "horse manure" in your city. or check craigslist. I found something right away.


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.

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Offline3nD
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Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: ChrisWho]
    #9630709 - 01/18/09 08:19 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

If you run an ultrasonic constantly you will have a soaked casing (humidity way too high), the ultrasonic produces an extremely moisture rich product while the cool mist isn't as concentrated I guess you would say, the cool mist provides more air exchange and less humidity.  You will have to figure out the time on vs. the time off by way of experimentation because it will vary depending upon your humidifier and the size of your container. The coolmist should be enough for air exchange if the container your using isn't ridiculously large (this concern only applies if your not using holes in the tub to facilitate air exchange).  If your going to use the ultrasonic you will need a good hygrometer. You should also remember that if you got your FC calibrated without a casing in it you will have to fine tune it when it comes time for fruiting.


--------------------
"Where there is a stink of shit there is a smell of being” -Antonin Artaud

Edited by 3nD (03/15/09 02:09 AM)

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OfflineChrisWho
Psilosopher

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 426
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: 3nD]
    #9630768 - 01/18/09 08:41 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Ouch... Thinking of just returning the ultrasonic, since I just bought it to replace the old one yesterday...

I checked the phonebook... Nada.
Craigslist... Nada.
I did find a place about an hour and a half away that gives away free horse manure as long as you load it... I guess that wouldn't be so bad. Hell of a drive tho just for some shit... But if I could get more than 20 dry lbs. then the cost of gas would be less than the cost of dry un-pasteurized manure from an online dealer.


--------------------
Drugs don't have spiritual potential, human beings have spiritual potential. And it may be that we need techniques to move us in that direction, and the use of psychoactive drugs clearly is one path that has helped many people.
-Andrew Weil

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Invisiblersr
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Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 42
Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: ChrisWho]
    #9630864 - 01/18/09 09:15 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Man,

You can drive out there and load up a couple hundred pounds and be set for a long time.  I just can't see buying stuff you can get for free.  But it's probably gonna be wet stuff, so you'll have to leach it good before you use it.  And, if it's coming out of a stable, then it will already have straw mixed in.

What I do is get it home and put it in a big pile in the yard, hose it down good every couple of days.  Then, when I think I've got all the urine out (you'll know cause it won't smell of ammonia anymore), I take what I need and put it on a piece of Masonite and use a sharpened ice scraper to chop it all up.  Then I pasteurize it and it's ready to be used after you hand squeeze all the extra water out.

All this is good and well if you have the situation for it, otherwise you have to improvise.

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OfflineChrisWho
Psilosopher

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 426
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: rsr]
    #9630909 - 01/18/09 09:31 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Who knows... Says it can be picked up in all ages. I'm guessing that means anywhere from dried and brittle to falling outta the horse's arse.

Hopefully I'll be able to get it bone dry, cuz I live in an apartment with no real front yard. The neighbors might not take too kindly to a big steaming pile of horse poo sitting in the lawn...

I'll probably call in a week or so and see if I can get a bunch of dry stuff, and if there's a maximum amount that can be picked up, and make the trip after I'm sure all the bills are squared away...

When you use poo and straw do you use anything else with it? Like any additives? I think RR posted that it helps to add different sources of nutrients if you have them. Variety helps, but in what ratios would I add the stuff from the first post?... Oh, wait... I think he also said in whatever ratios you want, as long as the texture is good.


--------------------
Drugs don't have spiritual potential, human beings have spiritual potential. And it may be that we need techniques to move us in that direction, and the use of psychoactive drugs clearly is one path that has helped many people.
-Andrew Weil

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Invisibleseven
.
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Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 1,478
Loc: north carolina
Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: ChrisWho]
    #9630951 - 01/18/09 09:48 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

i didnt read the whole thread but my advice is- Make sure to pasturize your bulk substrate for an hour at 160f. When spawning to bulk: do it in a veryclean room with all airflow cutoff. wear gloves.


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grind

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OfflineChrisWho
Psilosopher

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 426
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: seven]
    #9630965 - 01/18/09 09:54 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

seven said:
i didnt read the whole thread but my advice is- Make sure to pasturize your bulk substrate for an hour at 160f. When spawning to bulk: do it in a veryclean room with all airflow cutoff. wear gloves.




Most definitely.


--------------------
Drugs don't have spiritual potential, human beings have spiritual potential. And it may be that we need techniques to move us in that direction, and the use of psychoactive drugs clearly is one path that has helped many people.
-Andrew Weil

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Invisiblersr
Stranger
Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 42
Re: First Bulk Grow... Advice Needed and Appreciated [Re: ChrisWho]
    #9631004 - 01/18/09 10:05 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, the hpoo at the apartment might get your neighbors a little pissed.  Sounds great about getting it aged already though; wish I could.

In my short time cultivating I've went all out and hit things from every imaginable way.  But it seems to me that the hpoo and straw mixed with coir have been the best.  I've used all different kinds of lime, calcium, added coffee grounds, done bulks with straight straw pellets, mixtures of straw pellets and hpoo, straight hpoo and straw.  But like I said, I get best tubs from the straw and hpoo mixed about 50/50 with coir.

I would however take the above advise about pasteurizing though because I have been lax on that and I usually get blue or green mold after the first flush.  To me though it's not a problem because I have so many WBS jars going at any one time and tubs in different states of development that I can just chuck the tub and move another one into its spot.

I can see where having limited space and resources would make someone want to get multiple flushes though.

Again, good luck with the pans.

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