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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: daytripper23]
    #9622699 - 01/16/09 08:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Neo-Shaman
Quote:


The world is made of language



QFT


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: daytripper23]
    #9622812 - 01/16/09 09:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I got to the part where he says, "The world is made of language...." before I turned it off.  And my answer, as one who really likes McKenna's rants, is:  Bullshit.

If we are to believe--and believe me 'believe' is the proper word to use--the evolutionary paradigm, the cosmos, another word for world, existed billions of years before man.  Since that is the case, and predicated rightly or wrongly on the evolutionary timeline, the world existed before words.  Therefore, the world is far from a linguistic or syntactical affair.

Our understanding is necessarily linguistic or syntactical, however, that is an entirely different matter.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9622856 - 01/16/09 09:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I understand your thoughts man.  But also take a second and look around the room your computer is in.  I see walls, door, tv, cords, bed... all of that stuff is language.  Made of matter, but also made of language...idk maybe i have eaten too much acid, makes sense to me:shrug:


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9622895 - 01/16/09 09:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

No, I get it, and I agree with it NOW.  But now wasn't the time before man appeared on the evolutionary timeline.  I've read numerous McKenna books and listened to some of his stuff on YouTube.  My best friend heard him talk and was less than 3 feet away from him.  I wish I had been there.  I would have asked him some pointed questions about statements like that one.

It's all good. :thumbup:


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9622971 - 01/16/09 09:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

sweet.  The thing is that the universe can be made of language before we are here.  Language is not a material thing.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9623014 - 01/16/09 09:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:lol:  Indeed.  And if language existed before we are here, who was speaking?  That's a rhetorical question, you don't need to answer if you don't want to. Libraries are filled with books trying to answer that question.

Like the flowers of the Lotus, it is a mystery inside a mystery inside a mystery inside a mystery.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9623023 - 01/16/09 09:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:lol:  I always feel like i come to the brink of knowing the answer while tripping, then i realize that i could be wrong and almost infinite other possibilities.  Then i end up laughing at how bizarre life is.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9623042 - 01/16/09 09:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thankfully at the Shroomery you can post something like that and know you're not alone.  I think many of us have been there.  Some never left.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9623073 - 01/16/09 09:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:
Thankfully at the Shroomery you can post something like that and know you're not alone.  I think many of us have been there.  Some never left.



:rofl2:


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9623078 - 01/16/09 09:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Terrance McKenna wasn't afraid to seriously look at ridiculous ideas.  We need more people like him.

yeah I agree with McKenna but Kuhn made a similar point a long time ago in regard to scientific institutions and paradigm shifts in a very systematic way...

if you liked this McKenna, Kuhn is the one you want to look up more info for...


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"If it is true that the bigger the thinking becomes, the more lastingly effective it is, we must ask, 'How big can we think?' "  - Buckminster Fuller


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9623088 - 01/16/09 09:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:shrug:  Not only is truth sometimes stranger than fiction, it's also funnier.  :grin:

What is this, debunker's night off?

Kuhn is one of my favorites.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9623121 - 01/16/09 09:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

things are going swimmingly here


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9623132 - 01/16/09 09:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Alright i have been putting rolling this joint off long enough, get this, i was too lazy to roll a joint.  Paranox eh:lol:


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9623161 - 01/16/09 10:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

if time is a function of language (and all our experience suggests that time is a feature of our subjective experience which may not exist without our brains perceiving it exists) then it doesn't make sense to ask who spoke the language that existed before language.  Before language, there were no concepts of time including before, so to ask who spoke before there was language makes no sense.  Before language, there was no subjective experience of time, ergo once you drop actual people speaking and thinking in language, it doesn't make sense to ask who was speaking it before that, because there is no more before at that point.

Remembering that the universe is holographic and fractal, at another scale of spacetime, this is like asking what happened before the big bang.  Before the big bang, there was no thing to ask about...and we can only get the time between the big bang and language (and therefore, the experience of time) by saying something of the form 'X time units before our subjective experience, or something eventually cashed out in terms of our subjective experience'.

remember to time is a cycle not a line, and our ideas about linear time are an illusion the romans are using to prevent the inevitable and eminent return of christ consciousness to all beings...the language that the universe is made up of before language speakers is spoken after there are language speakers.  This isn't a paradox, since time itself is a feature of the language we use to describe the universe. 

I hope that clears things up.... :lol:


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"If it is true that the bigger the thinking becomes, the more lastingly effective it is, we must ask, 'How big can we think?' "  - Buckminster Fuller


Edited by SpencerGNobleman (01/16/09 10:14 PM)


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: SpencerGNobleman]
    #9623228 - 01/16/09 10:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Clear as a bell to me.  I just think paleontologists, for one, would disagree.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: SpencerGNobleman]
    #9623239 - 01/16/09 10:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SpencerGNobleman said:
remember to time is a cycle not a line, and our ideas about linear time are an illusion the romans are using to prevent the inevitable and eminent return of christ consciousness to all beings...




What does a fictional character written in a book by an unknown author have anything to do with consciousness?


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9623256 - 01/16/09 10:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

YOU ROLLED IT


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9623259 - 01/16/09 10:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yep, just gotta stop by the circle K and get eye drops on the way to my local alley where i blaze down at.  Neighbor will be joining :getstoned:


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9623298 - 01/16/09 10:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

20 20 vision = gonna be a nite to remember i think


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9623310 - 01/16/09 10:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

hey cognitive shift:

Quote:

As Dick later recounted it – possibly in mythologised form – a laser-like pink beam shot from the fish to Dick’s third eye. It had an extraordinary effect:

"I suddenly experienced what I later learned is called anamnesis – a Greek word meaning, literally, ‘loss of forgetfulness.’ I remembered who I was and where I was. In an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, it all came back to me. And not only could I remember it but I could see it. The girl was a secret Christian and so was I. We lived in fear of detection by the Romans. We had to communicate in cryptic signs. She had just told me all this, and it was true.7

There was plenty more to follow. For the next year or so, Dick felt his psyche invaded by a “transcendentally rational mind, as if I had been insane all my life, and suddenly had become sane.”8 He experienced hypnagogic visions, auditions, tutelary dreams, and an eight hour all night vision of thousands of coloured graphics resembling “the nonobjective paintings of Kandinsky and Klee.”9

Dick came to nickname the invasive rational mind as VALIS (for Vast Active Living Intelligence System), which became the name of his 1981 novel recounting his mind-boggling experience in fictional form."




You'd like VALIS, that was what I was referring too.

I slipped you some Dick (:lol:  :rotfl:) because you have to be that crazy/sane to see the world the way I was talking about.  His experiences are an example of seeing time as a cycle instead of a line.


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