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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #9610336 - 01/14/09 08:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Good imput:thumbup:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #9610344 - 01/14/09 08:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The P&S 'regulars' are themselves tired of being DBs, but the structure forces them to continue...


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: FiddlerOnTheRoof]
    #9610567 - 01/14/09 09:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FiddlerOnTheRoof said:
this may be off topic but what are you're guys favorite McKenna books?




The Archaic Revival.

Great work, although it contains interviews and essays.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9611192 - 01/14/09 11:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

There is nothing at all far out in the first video that was posted, so I can't understand what the problem actually is. So, to the detractors, what exactly is the problem? All that has been brought to the table is a vague attack on the persons character. Actually, this cultural demonization is just what he is getting at.

As I understood it, "substantial claims" are not exactly what Terence was interested in. I could say a lot about "substance" in the context of Mckenna, only after just hearing him really speak for the first time today.

But the detractors have yet to present a criticism that has anything to do with the video. Who lacks substance? All I have seen so far is Terence Mckenna is bad, mmmkay?


Edited by daytripper23 (01/14/09 11:14 PM)


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: daytripper23]
    #9611249 - 01/14/09 11:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well some people link the cultural demonization with zeitgeist.  So then they group them together and call them crack pot conspiracy theorists and use their ego to instantaneously irrationally denounce anything he says.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9612864 - 01/15/09 06:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I watched it with the sound off - hypnotic, no?
(thank god i did not have to see terrence's face)
I find it hard to believe from the visuals that the video has anything to do with institutions. (like why even call it a video?)

but if someone will write down the important parts I might appreciate it better.
I will check back tomorrow.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9612895 - 01/15/09 06:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I like McKenna a lot. I don't think he meant for a lot of his material to be taken as literally as the way it is phrased. Rather, it forms a rudimentary mythology that he uses to frame his deeper ideas. He has a very entertaining way of communicating.

Then again, I get frustrated at how many people think Strassman's The Spirit Molecule constitutes proof positive of the pineal gland being a magical meteorite from heaven, so heaven knows what kind of intellectual damage McKenna has wrought.

I still like him. The best of his material strongly rewards a critical approach.


Edited by Tchan909 (01/15/09 06:50 AM)


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #9615762 - 01/15/09 06:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

He does wonders with words. Redgreenvines why does it pain you so badly to watch or should i say listen in this case to Terance?

"The only difference between us and 1984 is that we dress better.." :congrats:


Edited by FiddlerOnTheRoof (01/15/09 06:42 PM)


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9619372 - 01/16/09 07:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

redgreenvines TM's message in the video (in summary):

people congregate, build institutions, especially through the early modern period, especially through the printing press (check out Benedict Anderson's book on the creation of nations via assumed readership and the awareness of a shared readership), institutions create signs, instill them in us, we believe those signs are real, we loose our spirit by believing in the common denominator between us (taking form in democracy, atomization of society). TM says, institutions bad, ooga booga, free spirit good.

i agree with this: the spirit, our breath, is almost gone, we can hardly breathe, we are suffocating ourselves...
oh, pneuma,
oh, spiritus,
oh, atem!
oh, breath!


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9619401 - 01/16/09 07:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I think its RIGHT on the money, i don't agree with some of mckennas stuff but i think he couldn't be more right about institutions. 





the first thing i've heard or read by mckenna that i
digested well. he was well-composed, thoughtful and
coherent. saying what he says was unthought of by
most 140 years ago. today most anyone will agree with
the basics: we all know these institutions are bad, but
we follow them anyhow. however, mckenna is overly
negative. power structures, institutions, language
games, however you want to call these semantic
structures, have been in place in all societies.
he's right when he says there is something new that
happened with them in the early modern period. however,
institutions are not all bad. he oversimplifies like
usual.

the last bit:
"The only difference between us and 1984 is that we dress better" was funny, but wrong.

our world is not like "1984".
our world is like "brave new world". and importantly,
the difference is that in "brave new world" they dressed better than we do.

the 1984 model fell with the berlin wall. liberal
capitalist societies, aggravating themselves to the
hyperreal, the hyper-x, self-medicating with hypo-drugs
(methylphenidate, etc -- ), have a very colorful society
of unending consumption, an economy reinventing itself,
a world run by bankers inventing money that doesn't
exist. like in "brave new world" we are kept children
until we're thirty, we are kept young adults all of our
lives; we are expected to have safe, recreational sex
before, during and after reproduction. like in brave
new world we copulate for fun and creds rather than for
reproduction (we are all perverts and paraphiliacs);
like in "brave new world" we are extreme individualists
who cannot indulge our family or neighbors into our
private lives.like in "brave new world" we have through
nation states fenced ourselves off from the savages,
sometimes we've even created reserves for savages (such
as in the 19th Century diving up Africa, or in the 20th
Century dividing up the Middle East). being that we,
like people in "brave new world" are the masters of the
world (and isn't this what our world is about? -- a
totalitarianism of engineering?) we also control flora
and fauna populations. we control the flow of citizens
and goods, humans are reduced to objects ("labor
force"), which can be manipulated for mass-political
means. we not only have catch-and-release for animals,
but also for humans! we in the US they are implementing
a program to put biochips into all illegal immigrants
(catch and track) before they are deported (released
into the wild).


also, "1984" and "brave new world" were never about
alternate realities, futures we should be wary of. they
are all about the worlds we have already live in. they
are simply more real than our world, they seem extreme,
because they are fiction and fiction is a concentration
of the real, which through its concentration seems
unreal. once again: "1984" and "brave new world" are about our world.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #9620347 - 01/16/09 12:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think he is over simplistic on the institution thing just like everything else.
each self perpetuating non-human organization made of humans, seems to be automated, just as we are.
the automation is double-edged, it enables terrific opportunities (transportation systems, schools, hospitals etc.) but it is like a machine if allowed to go to sleep.
and if a bad group gets control, it can run badly amok.
institutions not ooga booga bad, very handy things made of people, easily messed up and maligned. power structures easily corrupted.

same problem with self, goes to sleep, gets bad ideas, fucks up, self corrects.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9620372 - 01/16/09 12:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
it enables terrific opportunities (transportation systems




Are you kidding me, inventing machines that burn fossil fuels that pollute the environment and are actually leading our species and nearly all complex life into extinction.  You call that a terrific opportunity?  This is not intelligent behavior.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9620506 - 01/16/09 12:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

correct that is automatic behavior being controlled by an evil minded oligarchy.
several of our institutions are corrupted.
we can't retrieve the good by being simple minded,
or solve things by declaring everything bad.
oogga booga scarey.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9620513 - 01/16/09 12:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah you can cuz it is all bad, i think if i lived in a hunter gatherer tribe in a remote region of the world i would be a happier person.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9620527 - 01/16/09 12:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

you might be frustrated,
hunter-gatherer keyboards are very rough
only the shaman gets the good psychs
only the chief gets the good everything else


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9620563 - 01/16/09 01:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Life isn't supposed to be about going to work, spending money and then sitting around on your ass stuffing your face with processed sugar and food containing preservatives and chemicals that are unknown to human toxicity of long term use.  Life isn't supposed to be walking around consuming a bunch of garbage being feed to you throw the television or the newspaper, walking around just being a half wit moron being manipulated by cultural engineers into following an ideology.  And consuming material possessions, at least this is what happens in my western cultural.  I buy into it and work and spend, but i have to, to stay alive and support myself.  I would really like to like in a hunter gatherer tribe, but i know they wouldn't except into their society what represents everything evil... the white man.  Those people in the tribes are A LOT smarter than one might think.  I personally think they figured it out.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9620589 - 01/16/09 01:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Who decides what life is "supposed to be"?  Life will be whatever it can be, and that has been true all along.  The concept of "supposed to" is a human imposition on a neutral system.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Veritas]
    #9620608 - 01/16/09 01:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Your right people can choose to live how ever they wish, i just see MAJOR flaws in modern western culture.:shrug:


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9620624 - 01/16/09 01:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

terence appeals to that sad kind of outlook.

half wit morons in the forest die and are eaten - tiger food,
here the "tiger" keeps you live and keeps eating you.

study that and use it to your benefit.
keep your wits about you and don't be eaten.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9620627 - 01/16/09 01:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

IMO, humans tend to see "flaws" in everything they do not prefer.  There is no such thing as a perfection in which one would prefer everything that occurs, just as there is no such thing as an intrinsic flaw.


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