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69. Where Congress has sought to designate a plant, rather than a chemical substance, as one restricted under the CSA, it has done so explicitly. For example, the CSA lists the peyote cactus as a Schedule I controlled substance. The CSA lists the chemical agent found in peyote, mescaline, separately.

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i believe that the same is true of trichocereus in the US, it is perfectly legal to posses these plants unless one starts to prepare the cactus, extracting the alkaloids or drying, at this point it becomes illegal.

this is my personal interpretation anyway, did i miss something?

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surely if mescaline containing trichocereus were illegal in the US (as a certain member of this forum seems to believe) then the plant would be scheduled and illegal to posses and buy, or sell...

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as this is not the case and mescaline containing trichocereus can be bought at any number of places, surely one cannot deem the plant to be illegal under US law.

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Ledbonzo86 said: Yes it is legal up to and including cuttings for the means of propagation. Any intent to treat it as a mescalin product including all preparation after cutting makes it a schedule 1 substance fresh, dried, potpourri, or anything else.

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Ledbonzo86 said: I agree with all of that except the knowing part, it doesn't matter according to the law if you know they do or not.....ignorance is never justified.

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Ledbonzo86 said:
Yes it is legal up to and including cuttings for the means of propagation. Any intent to treat it as a mescalin product including all preparation after cutting makes it a schedule 1 substance fresh, dried, potpourri, or anything else.

I have notified ebay about two sellers selling dried tricho skin and dried powder. It would be nice to have those removed before someone does something stupid and Tricho

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Ledbonzo86 said:
Yes it is legal up to and including cuttings for the means of propagation. Any intent to treat it as a mescalin product including all preparation after cutting makes it a schedule 1 substance fresh, dried, potpourri, or anything else.

I have notified ebay about two sellers selling dried tricho skin and dried powder. It would be nice to have those removed before someone does something stupid and Trichos join salvia on the island of misfit ebay "drugs."

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Alan Rockefeller said:


Availability does not imply legality. 

For example, poppy seeds can be purchased at every grocery store in the country.  These seeds do contain morphine, in fact its enough to get high.  If you know that they contain any amount and you buy the seeds anyway (even if you buy them for food), you are in possession of a controlled substance which is just as illegal as pure heroin.  A couple pounds in your kitchen could have someone sent away for life.    If they are baked into poppyseed bagels they become even more illegal because then the weight of the bagel gets added to the weight of the seeds when determining how much morphine you have.

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damn his post has me all shooken up right now

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Poppy seeds are specifically exempted in the controlled substance act. The DEA lost its federal court case (HIA v. DEA -2004) with this same exact type of reasoning dealing with trace amounts of thc in hemp seeds (also specifically exempted by the CSA).

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If they sell the cactus in wal mart, there's fairly good reason to believe that particular cactus is legal.

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Dr. uarewotueat said:
it still makes no sense to me, the UK and US laws regarding plants that contain controlled substances are worded pretty much the same...
they both talk about "material" "tinctures" "preparations"

yet it has been proved in court that dried cactus material is perfectly legal in the uk

and i sat in a room full of cops and my live mescaline containing cacti and admitted that i knew what was in the plants, yet nothing was done about it...
and trust me those bastards had it in for me so if they could have done anything about it they would have done...

anyway that's the ambiguity of the written law, interpret it as you wish people.

give it a few years and tricho's will go the same way as salvia in the US, that you can bet on.

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Dr. uarewotueat said:
there would be people getting banged up for growing cereus peruvianus and myrtillocactus every day

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highdroponics said:
Oh god, if cops caught on and tried to ID cacti it would definitely make for some high quality entertainment. Cops are so retarded they think 'skunk' is some mutant marijuana plant that produces buds with a chemical that gets you hooked like crack and makes you hallucinate and wanna kill people.

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I know my body contains tryptamines that are illegal according to US law.
according to the law my body is a controlled substance carrier then, and I am not legally entitled to possess it.

Several studies of the plants failed to find signifigant quantities of mescaline, even in some psychoactive forms.
Without ingesting a given specimen, or testing it via an expensive method, there is no legitimate reason to presume that a given specimen contains a controlled substance.
Without having recourse to ingestion, because that is illegal, and not being able to GCMS specimens, a grower of cacti has no sound basis to presume that their plant are psychoactive or contain a schedualed substance.

This cannot apply if it can be shown that the grower has processed the plants, due to their psychoactivity, however the plants are used for many things. Trichocereus cuzcoensis is used as shampoo. Several San Pedro types are boiled in water to wash wool clothes. The plants are used for so many therapeutic and non-psychoactive purposes that one could own them and process them legally with no intention of breaking the law. Moroever the plants do not need to be psychedelic, nor are they shown to contain an illegal substance for using them for such legal purposes as treating hair loss and rashes, thing like that.

One form of San Pedro was found effective and tested as having little to no detectable mescaline, this is a form of the Juuls giant cultivar. Thus a psychoactive effect does not confirm the presence of an illegal substance. Without advanced testing there is no way a cultivator can have confirmed, beyond a reasonable doubt, that a plant contains mescaline, or another controlled substance, even when such a plant has been demonstrated to be psychedelic or has been subject to extraction as a means to isolate bioactive principals. As far as legitimate tests, since no two published alkaloid detection analysis have been consistant there is a reason to expect that the chemical content of the plants is unpredictable to some degree and may or may not contain mescaline.

It is illegal to ingest anything that intoxicates for the purpose of intoxication, even alcohol intoxication is criminalized to a large degree. Any disorderly conduct or behavior is technically illegal and law enforcement attracting intoxication typically involves unusual behavior and conduct that is often disruptive. If we consider that it was illegal for people with dark skin color to drink from the same waterfountains as people with lighter skin color in the US, it puts the intent and purpose of the law into perspective. When people, even a political majority have united in consensus; police and the law system sided against the people often with the well documented result of police violently attacking civilians. The judicial system and the police of the US have always failed to protect the citizens from the existence of unfortunatly frequent tyranical and unjust law. The basis of ones adherance to legal statutes should be founded upon the principals the statues are based upon, even a jury has the legal right to declare an individual innocent in cases where they feel the application of the law is a greater detriment than the alleged crime committed, even in such cases as where the defendant has been shown to be guilty according to the terms of the law the jury has the right to dissent with the opinion of the judge and override the law. James Madison wrote that the obligation of the civilian in the legality of the social compact is nullified by a betrayal of the principals of the compact by a governing element, thus tyrannical legislation does not obligate the public who through the jury system is to be the judges of the law as well as the accused upon a case by case basis. There is no validity to the argument that exceptions cannot be made in cases where the accused is harmed more by a conviction than the public was harmed by the violation of the law.

Should the legal statutes of the use of trichocereus cacti as medicinal and potentially psychoactive agents prevent people from obtaining the benefits of their use? Civilians has the right of self determination even if it goes unused, the law doesn't make decisions for you. When tyrannical and unjust laws exist people become the victims. A war is waged by the government, judicial system, and the police against their sons and daughters, wives and husbands, neighbors etc, this war on drugs criminalizes explorative behavioral activity demonstrated by a majority of the population, many people have tried cannabis for example, at immense public cost. It wastes the time of public servants who in just following orders persecute, criminalize and institutionalize innocent people. The effect is pro crime.

Our willingness to adhere to legal statute in victimless crime is complicity in a system which promotes crime through the enforcement of said statute while diverting valuable financial resources into the persecution and incarceration of people who as opposed to constituing a social detriment are a signifigant portion of the labor and trade force who thus deprived of freedom come to rely upon the perpetuation of a criminal lifestyle as a means of substaining an income due to exclusion from both the educational and the employment systems. Complicity is such a system that prohibits the use of san pedro and peyote, upon a racial and religious basis in many cases, is arguably and demonstratably more detrimental than is the willingness to abstain from the law behaviorally and thus be capable of recieving the benefits afforded by the use of such medicinal and psychoactive agents. There is no viable argument that such use constitutes a danger to health with the sole exception of the use of heavy machinery or dangerous environments, such threats are known to exist for countless legal psychoactive and medicinal agents and are not in those cases considered reason enough to deprive the public from their benefit via legislation. Studies of the use and the users of psychoactive cacti and ayahuasca show greater mental and psychological ehalth of the users as well as good physical health. Trout wrote that the investigators of such studies invariably reccomended the use of the studied material due to their indisputable positive effects.

Make up your mind for yourself, it is your civic duty.

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TreeMoss said:
People assume that it would be to much fear for "innocent" people to charge for cocaine possession on money or DMT in your body.  But few gardens have mescaline cacti and other narcotic plants (legal or otherwise), so that would be a real indicator; as shaman supply stores and ethno huts seem to sell all that they can.

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T. pachanoi is a common landscaping plant in some/many desert/near desert climates.  I doubt I would have to travel more then 1000ft (300m) in any direction to find one growing in someones front yard.  One of local botanical gardens has a t. pachanoi "forest".     

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melfdis said:     

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lqdtrance said:
Maybe the thought never crossed your mind that people just like to grow them.

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FOR REAL.... i grew some morning glory's last year just to grow them...

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Dr. uarewotueat said:
i didn't think there was any question about the legality of dried cactus material in the US... i thought that it is strictly illegal...

could be wrong though

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Dr. uarewotueat said:
i didn't think there was any question about the legality of dried cactus material in the US... i thought that it is strictly illegal...

could be wrong though

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It is technically, but so far they have let it slide. I have seen an ethnobotanical vendor site that sells skins. You get raped on their prices though. I have never used them for squat. I also have a wholeseller that I got a price list from, and I can get several species of tricho skins from them. Far too risky though IMO. I wouldn't use a wholeseller for that. I've got another source

EG

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bloodnashes666 said:
The only way I could bring myself to eat a plant was if it was dying and was impossible to bring back, and even that would be hard to bring myself to do. Thats like putting down a dog you raised from a puppy.

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lqdtrance said:
I'm just glad Treemoss is not here!!!

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there must be a god.