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Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions?
    #9607408 -

I think its RIGHT on the money, i don't agree with some of mckennas stuff but i think he couldn't be more right about institutions.  Donate 5 minutes and 44 seconds of your life to find out for yourself.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9607480 -

I love Terrence Mckenna and i agree with what he said in this video. I have listened to almost all of his lectures and his ideals and i must say he does wonders for my imagination.

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9607506 -

I completely agree.

The institution is the conveyor of models and policy, and therefore is the controller of the citizenry. If we live in the world, and behave like we are supposed to, like good citizens, it appears that we are disempowering ourselves and denying the spirit.

Mckenna's discussions on culture and institution have been of the utmost importance for me, and i think they contain much insight, and much truth.


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No trees were harmed in the writing of this signature; however, millions of electrons were mildly inconvenienced.

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: jvm]
    #9607573 -

Well, I don't disagree...

I enjoyed that, lots of good points. But I am not sure what there is to agree with. I mean these were his words, and his "cultural movement" after all: Down with isms (ism)? Or evangelizing the psychedelic experience?

Good stuff anyway :thumbup:.

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: daytripper23]
    #9607590 -

Well some people think that mckenna is a crazy nut and his ideas are wrong:shrug:  But any intelligent person that can think critically can see the insight.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9607601 -

While I would tend to somewhat agree, his views, like everyone else's, are still part of the zeigeist, forever one step or two being what's really going on; in a highly chaotic system like the world, one never has enough data point to infer the future. Each one of us as an agent of movement and culture, we engender a dynamic which can't be grasp by any single one of them. Institutions, like everything else, have a lifetime and do not contain in themselves only the seed of their own destruction or prosperity.

The more we act to know then the more we do. The more we do then the more we engender a secondary movement which we can't immediately know about. Repeat. We can be scared or worried about the future, but that, in itself, doesn't serve our cause.

Life is such a great and interesting mess.

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9608439 -

Does anyone know where I can find a few longer lectures by T.M of this kind of quality?

Edited by daytripper23 (01/14/09 02:05 PM)

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: daytripper23]
    #9608488 -

daytripper23 said:
Does anyone know where I can find a few longer lectures by T.M of this kind of quality?


http://deoxy.org/mckenna.htm

Under the spoken word section there are literally tons of video.


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No trees were harmed in the writing of this signature; however, millions of electrons were mildly inconvenienced.

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: daytripper23]
    #9608507 -

The world and its double is a great lecture!  Here is part one and when it ends just click on part 2 until you have seen all 8 parts i think?  Its an awesome lecture:grin:



I would also run a search of google video if your interested in others!


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9608743 -

thanks and thanks

:happyweed:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: deimya]
    #9609234 -

Quote:
Life is such a great and interesting mess.

And you are the bespectacled bean curd at its center. :smile:


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Lion]
    #9609278 -

:lol: I tip my hat to you good sir :poshdance:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9609615 -

Quote:
But any intelligent person that can think critically can see the insight.



I wuz gonna disagree, but your pre-emptive strike precluded it. :rolleyes:

Swami did an in-depth thread on the 'any intelligent person' fallacy.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9609632 -

Did that thread also address the "when did you stop beating your wife" question?

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Veritas]
    #9609643 -

No, I would love to start a thread on it, but the controversy just might be too extreme. :grin:


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Veritas]
    #9609652 -

this may be off topic but what are you're guys favorite McKenna books?


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"Experience is not what happens to a man; it is what a man does with what happens to him."
-Aldous Huxley

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: FiddlerOnTheRoof]
    #9609681 -

'True Hallucinations' is a dope tale with no substance, but lots of fun.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9610161 -

can anyone summarize the video
i don't relish watching TM or listening to sounds recorded from him


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9610170 -

redgreenvines said:
can anyone summarize the video
i don't relish watching TM or listening to sounds recorded from him


I mean just watch it, its not going to bite:shrug:


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9610241 -

this is probably the best mckenna clip ive heard, thanks cognitive.

I dont like it when he starts sensationalising, eg when he starts talking about child abuse, drug abuse.. those are the sensations that the media wants us to think about, and in this sense he has become a victim. but at the same time, he is also trying to be heard by an audience so it makes sense for him to take these paths of demonstration.

The world needs to wake up to this language issue.. it has been discussed by significant philosophers for  along time, the way that words influence our perception and conception of reality. however since the mass media is the force which people look toward for information (in general), the information needed to surpass the mass media will never get to such a 'mass'

Institutions are alive and made up of their members, who are compelled to sustain themselves and their organisation (like anything that is alive), and thus any institution based on descovering the truth is immediately flawed - this must be something each individual partakes in, for whenever truth or reason is outsourced to an institution, you are also outsourcing your interests and resultantly feed a system that slowly degrades your own goals (but never too quickly.. or else you would notice!)


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #9610336 -

Good imput:thumbup:


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #9610344 -

The P&S 'regulars' are themselves tired of being DBs, but the structure forces them to continue...


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: FiddlerOnTheRoof]
    #9610567 -

FiddlerOnTheRoof said:
this may be off topic but what are you're guys favorite McKenna books?


The Archaic Revival.

Great work, although it contains interviews and essays.


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No trees were harmed in the writing of this signature; however, millions of electrons were mildly inconvenienced.

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9611192 -

There is nothing at all far out in the first video that was posted, so I can't understand what the problem actually is. So, to the detractors, what exactly is the problem? All that has been brought to the table is a vague attack on the persons character. Actually, this cultural demonization is just what he is getting at.

As I understood it, "substantial claims" are not exactly what Terence was interested in. I could say a lot about "substance" in the context of Mckenna, only after just hearing him really speak for the first time today.

But the detractors have yet to present a criticism that has anything to do with the video. Who lacks substance? All I have seen so far is Terence Mckenna is bad, mmmkay?

Edited by daytripper23 (01/14/09 09:14 PM)

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: daytripper23]
    #9611249 -

Well some people link the cultural demonization with zeitgeist.  So then they group them together and call them crack pot conspiracy theorists and use their ego to instantaneously irrationally denounce anything he says.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9612864 -

I watched it with the sound off - hypnotic, no?
(thank god i did not have to see terrence's face)
I find it hard to believe from the visuals that the video has anything to do with institutions. (like why even call it a video?)

but if someone will write down the important parts I might appreciate it better.
I will check back tomorrow.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9612895 -

I like McKenna a lot. I don't think he meant for a lot of his material to be taken as literally as the way it is phrased. Rather, it forms a rudimentary mythology that he uses to frame his deeper ideas. He has a very entertaining way of communicating.

Then again, I get frustrated at how many people think Strassman's The Spirit Molecule constitutes proof positive of the pineal gland being a magical meteorite from heaven, so heaven knows what kind of intellectual damage McKenna has wrought.

I still like him. The best of his material strongly rewards a critical approach.

Edited by Tchan909 (01/15/09 04:50 AM)

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #9615762 -

He does wonders with words. Redgreenvines why does it pain you so badly to watch or should i say listen in this case to Terance?

"The only difference between us and 1984 is that we dress better.." :congrats:

Edited by FiddlerOnTheRoof (01/15/09 04:42 PM)

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? *DELETED* [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9619401 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #9620347 -

I think he is over simplistic on the institution thing just like everything else.
each self perpetuating non-human organization made of humans, seems to be automated, just as we are.
the automation is double-edged, it enables terrific opportunities (transportation systems, schools, hospitals etc.) but it is like a machine if allowed to go to sleep.
and if a bad group gets control, it can run badly amok.
institutions not ooga booga bad, very handy things made of people, easily messed up and maligned. power structures easily corrupted.

same problem with self, goes to sleep, gets bad ideas, fucks up, self corrects.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9620372 -

redgreenvines said:
it enables terrific opportunities (transportation systems


Are you kidding me, inventing machines that burn fossil fuels that pollute the environment and are actually leading our species and nearly all complex life into extinction.  You call that a terrific opportunity?  This is not intelligent behavior.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9620506 -

correct that is automatic behavior being controlled by an evil minded oligarchy.
several of our institutions are corrupted.
we can't retrieve the good by being simple minded,
or solve things by declaring everything bad.
oogga booga scarey.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9620513 -

Yeah you can cuz it is all bad, i think if i lived in a hunter gatherer tribe in a remote region of the world i would be a happier person.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9620527 -

you might be frustrated,
hunter-gatherer keyboards are very rough
only the shaman gets the good psychs
only the chief gets the good everything else


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9620563 -

Life isn't supposed to be about going to work, spending money and then sitting around on your ass stuffing your face with processed sugar and food containing preservatives and chemicals that are unknown to human toxicity of long term use.  Life isn't supposed to be walking around consuming a bunch of garbage being feed to you throw the television or the newspaper, walking around just being a half wit moron being manipulated by cultural engineers into following an ideology.  And consuming material possessions, at least this is what happens in my western cultural.  I buy into it and work and spend, but i have to, to stay alive and support myself.  I would really like to like in a hunter gatherer tribe, but i know they wouldn't except into their society what represents everything evil... the white man.  Those people in the tribes are A LOT smarter than one might think.  I personally think they figured it out.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9620589 -

Who decides what life is "supposed to be"?  Life will be whatever it can be, and that has been true all along.  The concept of "supposed to" is a human imposition on a neutral system.

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Veritas]
    #9620608 -

Your right people can choose to live how ever they wish, i just see MAJOR flaws in modern western culture.:shrug:


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9620624 -

terence appeals to that sad kind of outlook.

half wit morons in the forest die and are eaten - tiger food,
here the "tiger" keeps you live and keeps eating you.

study that and use it to your benefit.
keep your wits about you and don't be eaten.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9620627 -

IMO, humans tend to see "flaws" in everything they do not prefer.  There is no such thing as a perfection in which one would prefer everything that occurs, just as there is no such thing as an intrinsic flaw.

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9620637 -

If your smart you don't put yourself in a position to get eaten by a tiger:shrug:


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Veritas]
    #9620648 -

kind of like "na, na na - Boo Boo!"
which is a variant of "catch me if you can!"
which is also a form of "taunt the tiger"
and then we are back in the forest again.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9620715 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
If your smart you don't put yourself in a position to get eaten by a tiger:shrug:


plenty of smart people are taught from a young age to feed themselves to the tiger, apparently in order to live a good life


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9620716 -

Well, out of boredom, I watched the video.  I liked it; I like McKenna.  However, there were portions so philosophically flawed they set my teeth on edge.  The part about language was particularly disturbing.  As a rule I don't care for anyone droning on and on about ideas without producing a shred of evidence to back up their claims other than circumstance.

I think institutions are evil because we are evil.  That's an entirely new thread.

Thanks for sharing this.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9620773 -

actually if you are smart
run away from terence mckenna
you can't escape the tiger
you have to learn to walk beside it.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9620786 -

I like mckenna because he puts forth interesting discussion that is much food for thought.  His views are from his own subjective view, they are not meant to be looked at as right or wrong.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9620821 -

redgreenvines said:
you can't escape the tiger
you have to learn to walk beside it.


What else remains to be said?  :thumbup: :bow2:


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9620891 -

redgreenvines said:
actually if you are smart
run away from terence mckenna
you can't escape the tiger
you have to learn to walk beside it.


Or become the tiger.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: deCypher]
    #9621002 -

be the tiger



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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: deCypher]
    #9621014 -

Sometimes, it's a matter of context.



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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9621030 -

Do you prefer "Lust" or "Lustre" as a title for that card?

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9621067 -

redgreenvines said:
be the tiger



That is definitely a lion. :wink:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9621161 -

I would say that Terrence describes a certain dissonance to technology and institutions. This should not necessarily be taken as negative, but if this is the only context that is possible, then so be it. To draw a parallel, I might be listening to a certain part of a song that is dissonant. I may only be able to describe it as "painful" "shocking" or "intense" in the particular moment, even though the entire piece of music is enjoyable, and worth listening to.

So what I am saying, is the negative aspects of institutions that Terrence is emphasizing, are only part of the story; and without a doubt in my mind, a part that is deserving more and more stress in our society. We need the effective Tritone, or the existential bitchslap; and we need those artistically and metaphysically conceited persons to express themselves. (Thats my opinion)

Hasn't TM also been known to praise the advents of technology? Im not sure, but wasn't he generally known as a techno-shaman internet guru type? I agree that if this was all that Terence had to say about technology and institutions, it would be rather hypocritical. But I don't think it is wrong to emphasize our lack of tact in the current moment. All Terence is saying, is that the individual and the artistic expression, precede the collective and the culture. So I do not think he is favoring the individual, or detracting from the collective.  No more than it is necessary.


I am currently listening to the second video series that was posted, where he makes a comparison between technology/society with the hallucinogenic trip. He says that we are tripping harder and harder on technology, and this reflects itself in a hallucingenic culture. Coming from Terence the DMT man, isn't this a perfectly unbiased outlook?

Sure, there is much to say about the freedoms of the internet, a "library philosophy" of information exchange, rather than a "commercial". I think what we are doing right now is significant, and enlightening. I think internet forums are very useful for conducting a principled outlook on reality. Everything is recorded, written, but still fast paced and competitive.

Despite these merits, I also find it significant how easy it is to regress on this forum. The absurdity of the situation allows anyone to quite convincingly post a greamlin or graphic such as "The internet: serious buisness" and counter anything I have to say. Also, I have seen even the best posters around here scorn the learning or enlightening effects of the shroomery: "Its only the internet" after all. True knowledge is found at the university, or in books.

Generally, there is this prevalent idea that these fruits of our age are ridiculous. It is hard to praise the merits of our age, because these merits are things like the internet forum, information piracy, and wikipedia.

There is a certain truth to this. Wikipedia and bittorrent are not the end all source for enlightenment. But I think that the problem is largely exaggerated, and significantly reactionary, (notably in the university I goto.) It has more to do with copyrights and credit, even though it is typically made out to seem like it is the verity of this information.

Socrates was perhaps lucky that he only had to deal with the "sophists". At the shroomery, there is an even more absurdly fine line between the "masterdebater", and a true philosopher.

So yea, there are certainly merits of our age, such as wikipedia and internet philosophy, but it is hard to seriously describe them as revolutionary.

Now the "bad trip" of modern culture on the other hand, is easy to see and convincingly describe. Terence was speaking of confusing concepts with reality, but he hadn't even seen the actual medium that it has attained today. Its still the same linguistic confusion, but now it has attained a literal reality; we are confusing reality television with reality.

Perhaps you believe this is not relavent?

In a mirror image of this, the hallucinogenic (linguistic) response in politics, has recently reached epic proportions. There has always been the contextual manipulation of addressing issues as for instance "pro-life or pro-choice." That has been the art of politics for a while.

But since "The Patriot Act, political language has actually manifested its own medium. That is, in this language, "Patriot Act" is no longer a mere metaphor or contextual truth, but it has literally manifested a medium of patriotism that has nothing to do with the "act" itself (its action or function).

As a coherent, complete message, I believe that Terence is saying that the individual precedes the collective. Art and expression precedes culture. It is of course necessary to annihilate the illusions, before anything positive is attempted. So I do not think he should be mistaken as biased between the individual and the collective/institution. In our current context, yes it appears as a bias. But it is hard to praise the merits of our age, such as (wikipedia and internet forums) when they are constantly undermined by a bad faith in culture.

And yes, internet is serious business.

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: daytripper23]
    #9621196 -

btw I think there is no path that is necessarily best, but you can try to ride the tiger - potentially pwning.. potentially being maimed and loosing all you have lived for


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Lion]
    #9621240 -

yeah it's a lion
and so is terence
but I'm not


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: daytripper23]
    #9621241 -

That's quite an investment on his video(s).  Are you saying you find no philosophical flaws in them?


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9621267 -

I don't think there are perfect humans or philosophies. I think that philosophy is a language, or an expression.

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: daytripper23]
    #9621538 -

But should mention I do understand some of the criticisms, like what Redgreenvines said.

In the youtube info for the second video I watched it mentions that Tim Leary calls Terence the "Real Tim Leary". Unlike many around here, I suppose I have not given up on the direct and righteous psychedelic expression.Maybe its a lack of experience, and I have not yet seen it play itself out yet, or maybe I am just not satisfied with this attitude of giving in.

An "in the world" interpretation of psychedelics is going to come with some ego drive, and Ill admit I do get a kick out of seeing someone laugh in the face of institutions. But even while acknowledging this, I still have hope for a genuine "counter-culture"; as something more than just reactionary. I guess I am still waiting for the "real Tim Teary"; and in my own experience, I cannot in good faith believe that this is merely naivety...







Edited by daytripper23 (01/16/09 02:34 PM)

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: daytripper23]
    #9621654 -

I suppose hope is a good thing.  If not for that, we turn cynical and joy diminishes.  As I said, I like McKenna and I like his rants.  But when I hear a grievous philosophical error I wince, especially if it is foundational to the Truth being espoused.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9622650 -

Terence Mckenna; Neo-Shaman or outspoken English Lit major?

(Its relevant)

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: daytripper23]
    #9622699 -

Neo-Shaman
Quote:
The world is made of language


QFT


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: daytripper23]
    #9622812 -

I got to the part where he says, "The world is made of language...." before I turned it off.  And my answer, as one who really likes McKenna's rants, is:  Bullshit.

If we are to believe--and believe me 'believe' is the proper word to use--the evolutionary paradigm, the cosmos, another word for world, existed billions of years before man.  Since that is the case, and predicated rightly or wrongly on the evolutionary timeline, the world existed before words.  Therefore, the world is far from a linguistic or syntactical affair.

Our understanding is necessarily linguistic or syntactical, however, that is an entirely different matter.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9622856 -

I understand your thoughts man.  But also take a second and look around the room your computer is in.  I see walls, door, tv, cords, bed... all of that stuff is language.  Made of matter, but also made of language...idk maybe i have eaten too much acid, makes sense to me:shrug:


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9622895 -

No, I get it, and I agree with it NOW.  But now wasn't the time before man appeared on the evolutionary timeline.  I've read numerous McKenna books and listened to some of his stuff on YouTube.  My best friend heard him talk and was less than 3 feet away from him.  I wish I had been there.  I would have asked him some pointed questions about statements like that one.

It's all good. :thumbup:


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9622971 -

sweet.  The thing is that the universe can be made of language before we are here.  Language is not a material thing.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9623014 -

:lol:  Indeed.  And if language existed before we are here, who was speaking?  That's a rhetorical question, you don't need to answer if you don't want to. Libraries are filled with books trying to answer that question.

Like the flowers of the Lotus, it is a mystery inside a mystery inside a mystery inside a mystery.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9623023 -

:lol:  I always feel like i come to the brink of knowing the answer while tripping, then i realize that i could be wrong and almost infinite other possibilities.  Then i end up laughing at how bizarre life is.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9623042 -

Thankfully at the Shroomery you can post something like that and know you're not alone.  I think many of us have been there.  Some never left.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9623073 -

Mr. Mushrooms said:
Thankfully at the Shroomery you can post something like that and know you're not alone.  I think many of us have been there.  Some never left.


:rofl2:


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9623078 -

Terrance McKenna wasn't afraid to seriously look at ridiculous ideas.  We need more people like him.

yeah I agree with McKenna but Kuhn made a similar point a long time ago in regard to scientific institutions and paradigm shifts in a very systematic way...

if you liked this McKenna, Kuhn is the one you want to look up more info for...


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"If it is true that the bigger the thinking becomes, the more lastingly effective it is, we must ask, 'How big can we think?' "  - Buckminster Fuller

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9623088 -

:shrug:  Not only is truth sometimes stranger than fiction, it's also funnier.  :grin:

What is this, debunker's night off?

Kuhn is one of my favorites.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9623121 -

things are going swimmingly here


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9623132 -

Alright i have been putting rolling this joint off long enough, get this, i was too lazy to roll a joint.  Paranox eh:lol:


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9623161 -

if time is a function of language (and all our experience suggests that time is a feature of our subjective experience which may not exist without our brains perceiving it exists) then it doesn't make sense to ask who spoke the language that existed before language.  Before language, there were no concepts of time including before, so to ask who spoke before there was language makes no sense.  Before language, there was no subjective experience of time, ergo once you drop actual people speaking and thinking in language, it doesn't make sense to ask who was speaking it before that, because there is no more before at that point.

Remembering that the universe is holographic and fractal, at another scale of spacetime, this is like asking what happened before the big bang.  Before the big bang, there was no thing to ask about...and we can only get the time between the big bang and language (and therefore, the experience of time) by saying something of the form 'X time units before our subjective experience, or something eventually cashed out in terms of our subjective experience'.

remember to time is a cycle not a line, and our ideas about linear time are an illusion the romans are using to prevent the inevitable and eminent return of christ consciousness to all beings...the language that the universe is made up of before language speakers is spoken after there are language speakers.  This isn't a paradox, since time itself is a feature of the language we use to describe the universe. 

I hope that clears things up.... :lol:


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"If it is true that the bigger the thinking becomes, the more lastingly effective it is, we must ask, 'How big can we think?' "  - Buckminster Fuller

Edited by SpencerGNobleman (01/16/09 08:14 PM)

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: SpencerGNobleman]
    #9623228 -

Clear as a bell to me.  I just think paleontologists, for one, would disagree.


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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: SpencerGNobleman]
    #9623239 -

SpencerGNobleman said:
remember to time is a cycle not a line, and our ideas about linear time are an illusion the romans are using to prevent the inevitable and eminent return of christ consciousness to all beings...


What does a fictional character written in a book by an unknown author have anything to do with consciousness?


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9623256 -

YOU ROLLED IT


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9623259 -

Yep, just gotta stop by the circle K and get eye drops on the way to my local alley where i blaze down at.  Neighbor will be joining :getstoned:


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9623298 -

20 20 vision = gonna be a nite to remember i think


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9623310 -

hey cognitive shift:

Quote:
As Dick later recounted it – possibly in mythologised form – a laser-like pink beam shot from the fish to Dick’s third eye. It had an extraordinary effect:

"I suddenly experienced what I later learned is called anamnesis – a Greek word meaning, literally, ‘loss of forgetfulness.’ I remembered who I was and where I was. In an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, it all came back to me. And not only could I remember it but I could see it. The girl was a secret Christian and so was I. We lived in fear of detection by the Romans. We had to communicate in cryptic signs. She had just told me all this, and it was true.7

There was plenty more to follow. For the next year or so, Dick felt his psyche invaded by a “transcendentally rational mind, as if I had been insane all my life, and suddenly had become sane.”8 He experienced hypnagogic visions, auditions, tutelary dreams, and an eight hour all night vision of thousands of coloured graphics resembling “the nonobjective paintings of Kandinsky and Klee.”9

Dick came to nickname the invasive rational mind as VALIS (for Vast Active Living Intelligence System), which became the name of his 1981 novel recounting his mind-boggling experience in fictional form."


You'd like VALIS, that was what I was referring too.

I slipped you some Dick (:lol:  :rotfl:) because you have to be that crazy/sane to see the world the way I was talking about.  His experiences are an example of seeing time as a cycle instead of a line.


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"If it is true that the bigger the thinking becomes, the more lastingly effective it is, we must ask, 'How big can we think?' "  - Buckminster Fuller

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9623478 -

I think Terence speaks his thoughts very clearly. This is his particular way of speaking, but I just noticed how much this way of speaking clearly is part of his "manner"; and at one point it bugged me to the point that I had to turn it off. At the same time I also found it very interesting though. I am going to keep listening.

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9623483 -

Wow, i haven't been high like this in a longggg time.  Seattle buds get me ripped.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? *DELETED* [Re: daytripper23]
    #9624910 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? *DELETED* [Re: Lakefingers]
    #9624931 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #9625092 -

Lakefingers said:
so, the universe is language, what does it refer to?


consciousness.  The feeling of being alive and an active part in the world when you're not distracted by the ego you mistake as your self.  Language, Time, and the idea of the universe all are in your head (including the universe you think you are walking around it which is really a model in your head built up from language).

One of my favorite RAW quotes help a lot here:

"I agree with the Buddha, there is no meaning in life, meaning is in sentences, meaning is in symbols that symbolizes life, life itself does not have a meaning, because thats what meaning refers to, meaning refers to life.  To look for meaning in life is like looking for trees on a map, you can find squiggles that represent trees but you will find the trees there, the squiggles only represent the trees.  Or a river, you can't wash in a river on a map, you got to find a real river on a non map world.  I'm trying to make a difference between the words and the metaphors and the existential experiences."


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"If it is true that the bigger the thinking becomes, the more lastingly effective it is, we must ask, 'How big can we think?' "  - Buckminster Fuller

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: SpencerGNobleman]
    #9625220 -

SpencerGNobleman said:
...

One of my favorite RAW quotes help a lot here:

"I agree with the Buddha, there is no meaning in life, meaning is in sentences, meaning is in symbols that symbolizes life, life itself does not have a meaning, because thats what meaning refers to, meaning refers to life.  To look for meaning in life is like looking for trees on a map, you can find squiggles that represent trees but you will find the trees there, the squiggles only represent the trees.  Or a river, you can't wash in a river on a map, you got to find a real river on a non map world.  I'm trying to make a difference between the words and the metaphors and the existential experiences."


"meaning is in sentences"

using language we can extract more or less meaning from sentences, and even from stand alone words.

the meanings are resonances - associations that come alive,
bits of mental life that are linked to those words and to the cadences of those words strung together.

the sentences are just the external or visible or auditory missiles
- the payloads are the meanings which we never see, as they happen inside of minds.

maps are very good, even better than sentences and words, they can help you find your way if you are clever at interpreting them, the inner maps are part of meanings within the mind.

what are we talking about?


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? *DELETED* [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9625435 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Do you agree with Terence McKennas philosophy on institutions? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #9625469 -

'doing' is perceptual.. there is no such thing as an objective verb really


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