Home | Community | Message Board

NorthSpore.com BOOMR Bag!
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
Offlinefigmentfragment
leaving shroomery

Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 1,226
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Fatherly ethics [Re: deCypher]
    #9590199 - 01/11/09 04:01 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Well that is a beautiful thing really, kudos to you.

Perhaps I am just too cynical to see it.


--------------------
Goodbye Shroomery.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Fatherly ethics [Re: figmentfragment]
    #9590206 - 01/11/09 04:03 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Personally I think most people fall into two camps:

The first sees every action as inherently stemming from selfishness, and embroils their perception of the world in rank cynicism.

The second sees every human as inherently goodhearted, and views selfishness as merely ignorance that can be improved upon further understanding of their place in the world and how their own actions eventually come back to effect themselves.

I think you can almost attribute any motivation to any action--in reality, things are a lot less black and white than they appear.  :shrug:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
Re: Fatherly ethics [Re: deCypher]
    #9591380 - 01/11/09 07:44 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I think those are powerful and insightful statements.  Many times we superimpose what is in ourselves on to others. 

"Death scares me"="Death scares everyone"
"I need God"="Everyone needs God"
"I am selfish"="Everyone is selfish"

Regarding the OP's question:  I think it is up to the husband to decide what, if any, benefits the child should receive from him.  In a free society people should always have the option to choose who they bestow their resources upon.  If you marry a woman with children from another man you know, in advance, who you should take care of--her and her children.  If you are defrauded by duplicitous behavior, it is fraud.  The responsibility lies with those who committed the fraud, i.e. the biological mother and father.  That way the child is taken care of and no one has to pay that isn't responsible for the creation of the child.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Fatherly ethics [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #9592204 - 01/11/09 10:22 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Regarding the OP's question:  I think it is up to the husband to decide what, if any, benefits the child should receive from him.  In a free society people should always have the option to choose who they bestow their resources upon.  If you marry a woman with children from another man you know, in advance, who you should take care of--her and her children.  If you are defrauded by duplicitous behavior, it is fraud.  The responsibility lies with those who committed the fraud, i.e. the biological mother and father.  That way the child is taken care of and no one has to pay that isn't responsible for the creation of the child.




This is a longer form of what I wrote. The whole idea that it is just too bad for the duped 'father' because of the needs of the child is not logical. Wrong place, wrong time = justice? Not in my view.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: Fatherly ethics [Re: deCypher]
    #9593349 - 01/12/09 05:16 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Personally I think most people fall into two camps:

The first sees every action as inherently stemming from selfishness, and embroils their perception of the world in rank cynicism.

The second sees every human as inherently goodhearted, and views selfishness as merely ignorance that can be improved upon further understanding of their place in the world and how their own actions eventually come back to effect themselves.

I think you can almost attribute any motivation to any action--in reality, things are a lot less black and white than they appear.  :shrug:




I think selfish and goodhearted could be considered rival survival strategies. I don't think it's a coincidence that the only organism I know of that acts completely altruistically are eusocial insects, whose colonies happen share nearly the exact same genes. Bees are willing to sacrifice themselves for their sisters that are basically clones. If they didn't share so much genetic material in common I don't think they would do it.

In humans I would imagine there is some kind of equilibrium between selfish and altruistic individuals as both are valid survival strategies to some extent.

You can see for example that in a society of totally altruistic individuals who all worked towards the common good, a small group of selfish individuals in their ranks could easily take advantage. You can also see that in a group of totally selfish individuals a small group that worked together for the common good of the group could easily out compete individuals who only worked in their own self interest.

I think that equilibrium is tipped far in favor of selfish behavior where I am, based on my observations. It could be different elsewhere, not sure.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRoadkillM
Retired Shroomery Mod
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
Re: Fatherly ethics [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #9593923 - 01/12/09 09:22 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

this is an interesting topic...

there are several different things going on in here that touch base with me.


One of my best friends(Kevin) was married to his high school sweetheart(Tara) for about 8 years...they had 2 children.
They ended up getting a divorce.
She said "You keep your son, and I'll keep mine".
It turns out that the youngest son wasn't Kevin's.
He had no idea that she had an affair and that the youngest wasn't his.
He had to pay child support for this boy that wasn't his...til a dna test was done.
Which took the State of Washington 6 months to get done and into court back then.

My friend was devastated.

He ended up raising his son by himself...
and his X raised the other boy by herself.

--------


next subject...

I dated a girl named Carol for 4 months...
she seemed like a great gal.

She came and told me she was pregnant.

I didn't think either one of us were ready to have a child...
but I was willing to support her in any way.

She wanted to get married...
and I agreed to doing that, since I thought she was worthy.

A month later she comes and tells me that she has been to the Doctor...
and she is farther along in her pregnacy than they 1st thought.
And that I'm not the father of the baby, because the dates didn't add up...
so it was her X boy friends baby, not mine.

I told her that I didn't care...
that I really liked her alot and that I was falling in love with her...
and wanted to keep seeing her and such.

After another month...
She wanted to go off and have the baby on her own...
and didn't want to be a so called burden on me.
She refused to see me anymore.
I tryed a couple of times, but I gave up after a few attempts of trying to talking to her.

I waited a few months, and approached her again...
asking her "Are you sure the baby isn't mine?".
She said "No Jim, the baby isn't your's".
and she told me to go on with my life.

A year later I ran into her with one of my friends...
she had the baby with her.
Again I asked her if the baby was mine...
and asked her how she was doing.
Again she said it wasn't mine and that she was doing fine.
I told her not to come knocking on my door someday and tell me that I had a Daughter.
She said "Don't worry that will never happen!~".


12 years go by...

I get a knock on my door and it's Carol...
and I get this ugly feeling in my gut why she is there to see me.

Sure enough, she came to tell me that I had a 12 year old Daughter.

She had recently gone through a divorce...
and her husband(that had raised my daughter) didn't want to take my daughter with his kids on visitations anymore.
And he had told my daughter to ask her mother who her real father was...
and that maybe she should get to know him(me).
***He sounded like a real fucktard treating this young girl like this after raising her as his own***

So I got fucked out of the 1st 12 years of my Daughters life...
because her Mother got scared and didn't want to share her with me.



Since her Mother hid the fact that I was this girls Father...
should I be responsible to pay for those 12 years that I wasn't aware of her being my Daughter?

I don't think so.


I was never asked to step up to the plate and pay any kind of child support after the fact either.


My daughter is now 21 years old...
she has a daughter now, so now I'm a grand father.

--------


next subject...

I have several children of my own, that I have raised.

I am divorced.

Because of what happened to my best friend...
I had dna testing done to prove that these children are truely mine.

I am part Native American...1/8 Sioux

I have blue eyes.


One X had green eyes.

One X had brown eyes.

All of my children have blue eyes.



tc


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Fatherly ethics [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #9594284 - 01/12/09 11:17 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

adjust said:
You can see for example that in a society of totally altruistic individuals who all worked towards the common good, a small group of selfish individuals in their ranks could easily take advantage. You can also see that in a group of totally selfish individuals a small group that worked together for the common good of the group could easily out compete individuals who only worked in their own self interest.




Exactly, although I'm not so sure that a static equilibrium exists.  In all probability it's more like a predator/prey relationship where the ratio alters chaotically.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
Re: Fatherly ethics [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9594365 - 01/12/09 11:39 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Regarding the OP's question:  I think it is up to the husband to decide what, if any, benefits the child should receive from him.  In a free society people should always have the option to choose who they bestow their resources upon.  If you marry a woman with children from another man you know, in advance, who you should take care of--her and her children.  If you are defrauded by duplicitous behavior, it is fraud.  The responsibility lies with those who committed the fraud, i.e. the biological mother and father.  That way the child is taken care of and no one has to pay that isn't responsible for the creation of the child.




This is a longer form of what I wrote. The whole idea that it is just too bad for the duped 'father' because of the needs of the child is not logical. Wrong place, wrong time = justice? Not in my view.




Nor in mine.  I was just elaborating on your succinct, elegant point because I'm a chatterhead.

In reference to subsequent posts, I find it useless to speculate on anthropomorphic altruism with other species that are programmed by their instincts when man alone has the capacity of reason, i.e. conceptual abstraction.  I'll listen to the other species when they start using prepositions, particularly whereas.  I just love that word.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Having Children if the world were to end
( 1 2 3 all )
gluke bastid 2,220 41 02/26/06 09:09 PM
by shymanta
* Children Loving
( 1 2 3 all )
Ravus 4,790 42 12/11/04 09:13 PM
by kadakuda
* Children and Cuss Words
( 1 2 all )
Silversoul 2,202 37 08/03/05 10:42 AM
by fireworks_god
* The Ethics of Having Children Silversoul 1,516 12 01/06/07 01:51 PM
by Silversoul
* Ethical Will Veritas 283 0 07/11/05 05:17 PM
by Veritas
* Relating to Children
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
Huehuecoyotl 10,520 131 04/28/05 05:05 PM
by gettinjiggywithit
* are "ethics" worth talking about?
( 1 2 all )
Malachi 5,108 39 08/22/03 01:08 PM
by Rhizoid
* Ethics of Hunting
( 1 2 all )
Dfekt 1,716 20 11/16/05 10:57 AM
by redgreenvines

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
2,701 topic views. 1 members, 7 guests and 16 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.027 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.