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InvisibleDelicious Apes

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 3,642
Thru-hiking.
    #9588471 - 01/11/09 09:50 AM (15 years, 20 days ago)

I'm curious how many shroomerites are experienced or interested in thru-hiking or long distance MTB travel. I've been setting up to do a trip for years, and have most of my gear.

The Continental Divide, Pacific Crest and the Appalachian trails all look quite incredible. What I am wondering is, do I have to leave Canada for similar, long distance hikes ? I am most interested in the rocky mountain ranges through Alberta and British Colombia, and I considered canoe travel through the Yukon and NWT for a time, but there are too many considerations in route.

i'm interested in discussing logistics of the whole thing with anyone who is like minded.

The biggest question mark aside from departure and destination is what foods+supplements to take and in what amount/proportion. I've read about things like spirulina tabs, bee pollen, dehydrated food, etc. Depending on foraging/hunting/fishing opportunities on route, my instinct tells me that sources of fat, fibers and protein would be the priority in packed rations.  Vitamin C is abundant year round, and various carbohydrates are easily found. chances of regularly getting meat are much lower. I'm currently a vegetarian but that might have to change out there to keep myself alive. I would feel less guilt eating an animal I killed with my own hands than one I bought from the grocery store anyway.

Oh, and obviously I'm looking for the best mass/weight to nutritional value ratio, even if it tastes like shit.



peace


Edited by Delicious Apes (05/31/09 06:00 PM)


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Offlinesuburbanned
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: Delicious Apes]
    #9590529 - 01/11/09 05:01 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

eating meat after being a vegetarian wont be a lot of fun, make sure you ease your way into it


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: Delicious Apes]
    #9590669 - 01/11/09 05:35 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

Yeah getting your complete proteins on the trail can be tricky without meat, but if you are a smart vegetarian and you do a little planning it is entirely possible. The most important thing being making sure you mix your grains and legumes and such. Beans and rice, that sort of thing. Dehydrated food is key.
Nuts are usually my biggest source of fats and some protein, for most of my complete proteins I usually vary between pastas and rice and beans type deals, tuna, and beef jerky. The tuna in those foil packs is light and packs small, and keeps for a long time unrefrigerated, same with jerky.

As a general rule, you want to go with as much (healthy) calories as possible, which includes a lot of fat and protein. I'd always carry a bunch of dehydrated veggies with me, for making soups and such.. I dehydrate my own. As well as dehydrated fruits. Spirulina is a REALLY smart idea, you will need those nutrients on the trail. GORP is an essential, however you want to make it.. the key ingredients being nuts, raisins, and chocolate. Peanut butter and flatbread is good. There are tons of ways you can pack and it's mostly personal preference but those are some of the things I like to carry.


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InvisibleDelicious Apes

Registered: 10/31/08
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: Shroomism]
    #9592401 - 01/11/09 11:05 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Great, exactly the type of info I needed.

I've been looking at dehydrators. The pre-made meals are pretty expensive and not likely the freshest.Is there a DIY method? If not, what would you recommend on a relatively inexpensive dehydrator? Also what is your preferred packaging? I assume you'd vacuum seal dehydrated food but I don't know much about it really.


Edited by Delicious Apes (06/04/09 10:40 PM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: Delicious Apes]
    #9592442 - 01/11/09 11:12 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Yeah, a cheap dehydrator gets the job done. What I do is throw a bunch of fruits and veggies in there. Carrots, onions, greens (important!), whatever looks good. I just store them in ziplock bags. Sometimes I'll just section them off into individual ziplocks, or just throw all the veggies in one big one.. usually with some spices in the bag. That way, whenever I want to make a soup or something.. cook my rice or pasta or whatever, then toss some veggies in. Easy meals on the trail. Really no need to vacuum seal it, a ziplock works fine.. and they are reusable.

The Premade freeze-dried meals are a huge waste of money..and create a lot of trash. It's something like $5-7 a meal. You can spend $10-15 on veggies and such and have enough for like 20 meals.

The biggest vitamin you have to worry about (IME) is vitamin C.. as it is not stable to heat, light or air.. dehydrated veggies can lose ~90% of their vitamin C content.. so if you know how to get it from natural sources, great.. or just carry some C tablets or get fresh citrus whenever you can.


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: Shroomism]
    #9600823 - 01/13/09 11:32 AM (15 years, 18 days ago)

a lot of vitamin C out there is not readily absorbed, get vitamin C tablets made from rose hip extraction.
trader joes makes some rose hip C, and theres rose hip supplements at most health food stores.
the vitamin c in rose hips is somehow much more readily absorbed, and vitamin C intake is very important on the long journey.

dont forget your omega 3's!
fish oil is nice, toasted hemp seeds mixed into your trailmix is another option.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: CptnGarden]
    #9602630 - 01/13/09 05:09 PM (15 years, 18 days ago)

Yeah I knew I always carried tuna for a reason!
Hempseed is another very good option though.. probably one of the single most nutritious plants we know of on Earth... so definitely not a bad idea bringing that.


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InvisibleDelicious Apes

Registered: 10/31/08
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: Shroomism]
    #9609429 - 01/14/09 04:46 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

I typically start and end the day with a bush brew, pine needle or labrador tea. Very nourishing, packed with vitamin C and D as well as antioxidants. Even better if it's sweetened with birch sap and a mix of rasperry/blueberry leaves.

Good call on the hempseed, maybe I could throw that in with the GORP. Fish oil is another good suggestion.

Not having much luck finding suitable routes in Canada.. there's the Trans Canada trail and the "National Hiking Trail" but they don't really seem to have what I'm looking for. Starting to lean more towards a few months in the Temagami or Wabakimi wilderness by canoe. I'd be able to acess more remote areas and pack 150 lbs of food along with supplies.


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OfflineBoulderBoomer
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: Delicious Apes]
    #9622524 - 01/16/09 05:52 PM (15 years, 15 days ago)

I'm planning a thru-hike of the Colorado Trail this summer, 460+ miles from Denver to Durango.  I figure if you've never thru-hiked before, better to start with something mid-range until you have a pretty solid knowledge of your endurance.

I've been doing similar research on diet, gear, etc and have found several helpful sources of info.  Backpacking Light magazine has a website with lots of interesting articles, stats, and podcasts about everything light-weight and trek related. 

Tom Brown Jr. has written numerous books on wilderness survival techniques, forraging, etc, that would be very applicable to thru-hikers that might want to supplement their diet with what they find on the trail.  I would not rely on these sources, but as you mentioned they supply vitamins and minerals that wouldn't hurt to add to your diet. 

Finally, most natural food stores and many regular chain stores have bulk food sections with dehydrated/freeze-dried soup mixes that are loaded with fat, carbs, sodium, and are dirt cheap.  As far as weight/calorie ratio is concerned, freeze-dried is the way to go.

The way I understand it, you shouldn't have to worry to much about "balancing" your diet on the trail.  Just make sure you bring enough because you're going to be ripping through calories like nobody's business.

Hope that helps.


--------------------
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."
  -Willy Wonka




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InvisibleDelicious Apes

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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: BoulderBoomer]
    #9622670 - 01/16/09 06:30 PM (15 years, 15 days ago)

Thanks a lot. Although I've never done any major long distance thru-hiking, I have a lot of experience in terms of wilderness survival, long canoe trips, solo camping etc.

Will you be mailing packages to re-supply points along the way?


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OfflineBoulderBoomer
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: Delicious Apes]
    #9624071 - 01/16/09 11:35 PM (15 years, 14 days ago)

Along the CT there are resupply points every 40-50 miles for most of the route, usually involving a 3-10 mile hike off the trail to a town.  I figure I could thumb my way into town at these intervals and restock at the general stores instead of mailing food.  We'll see though, this will be my first thru-hike and I'm sure I have lots of mistakes in the making.


--------------------
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."
  -Willy Wonka




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InvisibleDelicious Apes

Registered: 10/31/08
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: BoulderBoomer]
    #9625227 - 01/17/09 07:23 AM (15 years, 14 days ago)

yeah, it would probably be easier to get most general food/fuel etc. in stores along the way and possibly mail out a small amount of packages with more personalized supplies that may be harder to find.

You mentioned that quantity is a higher order than variety. Assume you were only allowed 3-4 types of food. What would your choices be?


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OfflineBoulderBoomer
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: Delicious Apes]
    #9647184 - 01/20/09 05:21 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

Breakfast would probably be muesli (a mix of nuts, dried fruit, and oats usually, like cereal), which can be made hot or cold, with powdered milk. 

Then I would probably snack constantly through the day on some sort of gorp style food, maybe home-made energy bars, dried meat, tuna, etc.  The problem with having a real lunch while thru-hiking, from what I've read, is that it causes a mid-day drowsiness while your body tries to digest the big meal. 

Then for dinner I would do something like noodles and powdered sauce with lots of butter (clarified butter, or ghee, does not need to be refridgerated and would be ideal for backpacking), or some kind of freeze dried soup mix with a grain of some sort (quinoa or brown rice would be ideal).  It's best to get grains that cook fast, or are already par-cooked, so you don't have to waste fuel simmering it for 20 minutes.  And of course the butter is for the additional calories and to prevent weight loss. 

A big dollop of butter combined with a hot chocolate packet used with the pasta water is super good and has a lot more calories than just hot chocolate by itself.

Variety might be a good idea if you're not going to resupply for a while and you think you might get sick of the same food over and over again.


--------------------
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."
  -Willy Wonka




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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: BoulderBoomer]
    #9647393 - 01/20/09 05:53 PM (15 years, 11 days ago)

One word about grains that take a while to cook - instead of simmering them.. just let them soak in water for 30-45 minutes before you cook them.
Yeah, you have to wait a little longer, but you save a LOT of fuel.. and if you do it in advance it's not an issue.
Tougher grains soaked like this will cook up in 5 minutes or less just like any other grain. Steel cut oatmeal, brown rice, etc.

And yeah right on the money about the quantity > variety thing. Although IMO, variety is important, but your choices for variety are somewhat limited.
But you want to consider all the calories you can get.
My food choices would probably be very similar to what you just posted.

But I don't worry about getting 'fast cooking' grains. Usually, that means getting inferior quality foodstuffs that has been stripped of a lot of its nature. (White rice, 'white flour' products, "instant noodles/oatmeal" etc).. I tend to stay away from that stuff, or try to. Get whole grains whenever possible, you'll need the extra vitamins/nutrients/fiber etc.

I've never tried bringing ghee, but that sounds like a really good idea. You want those calories and you want lots of fat.
I usually brought a thing of olive oil with me, and would sip on that or add it liberally to meals. Lots of calories and good fats.
And of course GORP is an essential. Anything with a lot of nuts, and dried fruit.. would be your main snack food.

Veggies are unquestionably one of the hardest things to get on the trail.. most people don't get nearly enough. Which is why I recommend some kind of super veggie like seaweed.
And if you can supplement your diet with foliage and edible plants then all the better.


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OfflineRogerRabbitV
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: Shroomism]
    #9706417 - 01/30/09 03:48 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

If you're in BC, right across the border from Grand Forks is the trail head for the Kettle Crest #13 in Washington State, which makes a great two to three day hike to test your endurance and equipment. In fact, if I left mrs rabbit at home, I think my dog and I could do the 30 miles in one day, by carrying a lot less load. The trail head is also less than 20 miles from my place.  I'd be up for a key swap type of hike, where you park at one trailhead and I'll park 30 miles down the trail, and we'll swap car keys when we cross in the middle.  I know of several other hikes in the area like that.

The PCT is great too, but next time I get on that one, I want at least a month, and that's kind of hard to pull off.
RR


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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineBoulderBoomer
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9715692 - 02/01/09 02:21 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

RR, I might take you up on this key swap.  What are the trail conditions like this winter?  I've been trying to come up with a good excuse to get into the backcountry for a day or two...let me know.

BB


--------------------
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."
  -Willy Wonka




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InvisibleDelicious Apes

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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: BoulderBoomer]
    #9718897 - 02/01/09 06:13 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Recently got my Hilleberg Akto in the mail.. quite light. Just over 3lb including footprint.



Looks like a great design for windy conditions. Liking the vestibule.


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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: Delicious Apes]
    #9726982 - 02/03/09 04:02 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Dude, where in Canada are you?  I am in Vancouver and am always looking for people to hike with. 

Regarding food, when I am out burning a lot of calories (such as tree planting)  I kind of follow a loosely adopted version of the warrior diet (theres a thread about this in the physical/mental health forum).  It fits my needs perfectly, and has been proven effective in the calorie slaughter fest known as treeplanting (though everything was fresh instead of dried) and fine tuned over the last 6 months (I have a very physical job)

Here is a sample day on the trail:

Wake up with a nice cup of tea. My favourites are green and pineneedle tea. If I can collect enough sap (from trees like maple or birch) I will use that to steep my tea in.  The night before I will set up a few sap collection vessels so I have some for morning.  If I can get enough, I will boil it down to a syrup. 

For then until just after mid day I eat nothing but dried fruits.  Not a lot, but enough to not feel hungry. At lunchtime, I have a high BV protein shake (whey isolate, very compact protein source, Usually 50g protein or so) with a swig of olive oil, and have a little break.  When I start going again its more fruit. After a few hours I'll switch to nothing but nuts and seeds (I favour hempseeds, almonds, cashews, sesame and pumpkin seeds, all raw and organic).  When my days stash of seeds is gone, I will wait an hour while I set up camp then have some more protein (protein shake with mouthful of olive oil, or homemade pemmican) and eat the rest of my days rations in a ginormous feast while I chill by the fire and smoke a bowl. 

One thing that I like to do to conserve space is to blenderize all my fruits and make dehydrated leathers which I can chop up and reconstitute for sauces and such.  A warm cup of reconstituted fruit compote on a chili morning is absolutely wonderful, especially if you use a wide variety of fruits in your mix, and use tree sap to rehydrate it (mmmmmmm)

With veggies, you can do the same, but you can add ghee, pemmican, and whatever herbs you can find while cooking to make a delicious stew.  I cook mostly over the fire, so I can afford to let it simmer for a little while (hour or so). 

When I blenderize my veggies (final texture is up to you, but enough that it will bind together), I like as much variety as I can get. Its actually more of a soup paste than a veggie mix.  I'll put kale, broccoli, potatoes, carrots, celery, garlic, onions, barley (or some other hard grain, like whole gran rice, quinoa, etc...), peas, beans (7 bean mix uaually), tomatoes, peppers (sweet and hot) bunch of herbs and spices (fresh or dried, whatever is available, oregano, basil, thyme, rosemary, turmeric, coriander, Cumin etc etc...), corn, flour, bullion cubes and whatever else, the ratios of which all depend on what kind of a mood I am in, and what flavour I am shooting for, but it really doesnt matter.  Though using all these ingredients, you can range the flavour from a hearty stew, to a fullblown chili style soup just by playing with the ratios.

Once every thing is cooked and blended, I will dehydrate what I need for the trail and freeze the rest.  This way I can make a HUGE batch to be used on future outings  The barley, peas, and beans need to be cooked before blenderizing, which is a good time to homogenize all those extra flavours. I cook them separately so I can get away with using less water (I cook and strain the beans and peas, and use just enough water to properly cook the barley.  To this water you can add all kind of flavours (good time to put your dried spices and bullion cubes in the mix) that will be extracted in the water. When you add the blenderized mix, there is just enough water to make it mixable.  It forms a nice paste that can be spread and dehydrated very effectively. 

When about halfway done dehydrating, I will take them out and put a weighted cutting board on top of my leathers compress them as much as possible. I leave it like this for an hour, then put them back in the dehydrator to finish off.  When done, I repeat the compression process leaving it over night with a good amount of weight on top.   

  The beauty of this is that through experience you can fine tune the ratios to best suit your needs/tastebuds (and minimize gas :blush:).  It really tastes quite amazing, and has very high nutritional value in a very confined space. 

I suppose you could also add any wild game and boil it (my preferred method of cooking meat at home) until tender, than add the reconstituted veggie mix and simmer.  That would be pretty good (never done that mind you, but I'd like to try it).  The smooth texture can get to people, so you can keep a few items separate and just chop them instead of blenderizing them before dehydrating to give your camp stew some texture.  (really any of the ingredients you would like to chew on like beans, potatoes, carrots, etc...) 


Also, another great way to get your starches is to bring some bannock.  It is very simple, and can be used in a huge number of ways.  You can add water and cook it in a pan and make a fire loaf (back of pan on hot rock, open face towards the fire) or add it as-is to thicken up your camp stew.  You can even add a little water to make it doughy and drop it in the soup to make dumplings.  Its truly great and very compact. 

To make bannock my way:
4 cups of flour (I like to mix up a variety of whole grain flours)
4 tsp baking powder
1 tsp salt
1/3 cup ghee (or other hard forming fat like butter or margarine)
2/3 cup dehydrated almond milk (I am mildly lactose intolerant, you can use milk powder)
1/3 cup egg powder

This is the basic recipe made at home and bagged.  These are approximate, and amounts are determined to how long I am going to be gone.  I will often add raisins, brown sugar, and a little rum (I always carry 375ml bottle) for a sweeter version.  Fresh cooked bannock dumplings and camp stew is a nice hearty meal. 


Another thing I like to do is to add some supplementation to my water pack.  I always haul tons of water as I try to drink a gallon a day, and I really dont mind the extra weight.  I divide my supplements into daily doses, and just add them to my jugs each morning before filling. When I cook, I just use fresh water from nearby streams as it gets boiled pretty thoroughly, and the natural minerals are good for you. 

In a days worth of water,

250g maltodextrin powder  (1000 extra calories)
10g glutamine powder
10g BCAA powder

I premix this and put that amount into a little bag for one day.  I bring a little baggie like this for every day I'm to be gone plus a day.  You cant even taste the supplements. It tastes like any old water. 

For all the fruits and veggie leathers I divide into in full day servings.  I have a fruit meal for breakfast, and nibble the rest off the leather throughout the day. 

All my food can be eaten without cooking.  All my food can be cooked.  It works great :smile:


So there we are.  I hope this is useful to someone :laugh:

:hippie:


Edited by Quoiyaien (02/03/09 05:52 AM)


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OfflineBoulderBoomer
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #9732833 - 02/04/09 02:00 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Wow, thanks for that Quoiyaien.  Sounds like you've gotten your method refined to a science.  I've been on the fence about getting a dehydrator for such homemade backcountry meals, but I'm pretty much sold now.

Your tree planting, is this with a restoration ecology outfit up there in Vancouver?  I'm curious because I was working for one down here in Seattle, planting native trees and shrubs, among other things.

-BB


--------------------
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."
  -Willy Wonka




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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Re: Thru-hiking. [Re: BoulderBoomer]
    #9733169 - 02/04/09 06:48 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BoulderBoomer said:
Wow, thanks for that Quoiyaien.  Sounds like you've gotten your method refined to a science.  I've been on the fence about getting a dehydrator for such homemade backcountry meals, but I'm pretty much sold now.

Your tree planting, is this with a restoration ecology outfit up there in Vancouver?  I'm curious because I was working for one down here in Seattle, planting native trees and shrubs, among other things.

-BB




It was with a reforestation outfit in Williams Lake.  It is intense.  There is nothing in the world more physically demanding than treeplanting.  It demands so much physically and mentally. 

Beautiful scenery though, and living in a tent for 4 months in the middle of nowhere rocks. 

:hippie:


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