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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea



Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: Chronic7]
#9536633 - 01/03/09 08:01 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I completely disagree, the religions over the millions of years / cultures of human kind have all had very different belief systems ideologies. There are religions that include murdering other humans, sacrificing animals, worshiping all sorts of random crap, insane beliefs - none of this leads to the same place unless the same place your referring to is death in which case you would appear to be talking in riddles.
IMO religion is leading people AWAY from the core. I use core in terms of true nature of reality and self.
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zzripz
Stranger


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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: Ego Death]
#9536699 - 01/03/09 08:18 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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of course. The important thing is to understand religion of science also which is scientism, because people sacrifice for that as well. Their SOUL!
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Amber_Glow
Sat Chit Anand


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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: Ego Death]
#9536747 - 01/03/09 08:35 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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There is the surface level / dogmatic / fundamentalist interpretation of each religion, and there is the mystical / philosophical / insightful interpretation of each religion.
The latter interpretation of each religion is indeed very similar at the core. They share what might be known as the "perennial philosophy". The universal truths that have been recognized by those of all faiths or even those of no faith!
Of course in the fundamental interpretation, things such as actual snakes in the garden and gods literally dancing in the sky could be said to be legitimate differences. The outer stories of each religion differ greatly, but the inner truths that these stories point to - truths which may be unknown by outsiders, as well as the dogmatist followers - are basically the same.
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Chronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: Ego Death]
#9536752 - 01/03/09 08:40 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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The beliefs differ but they all try to get you in touch with the same principle, religion is made in sole reverance to true nature/reality/Self, if it isnt then it isnt a religion
The main religions anyway are about paths to god, the core, awareness, the Self
& lots of hypocrasy of course
If you see personal then you see the differences, i only see the Self everywhere in everything, theres nothing else, so in my view all religions are in the name of the same Self & essentially the same
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea



Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: Chronic7]
#9536837 - 01/03/09 09:14 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Interesting.
In that case i would say that there are not many religions but there are many cults.
If a religion is taking money / actively recruiting/converting new members or telling people how they should behave then thats not IMO a way to realize self or oneness. I spose IMO the majority of religions are now corrupt and have become cults, whether or not they started with good spiritual intention would be highly debatable.
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JCoke
dream observer



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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: zzripz]
#9537751 - 01/03/09 01:09 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
You are reading this myth literally, as THOUGH the 'serpent' and 'lord god' and/or 'god' are actual characters in real history. No, it is myth writ by a priesthood, and it is patriarchal and is warning off the Indigenous people--the Hebrews oppressed, from practicing their entheogenic religion.
thats what some people like to believe, but that's very rare among people, the whole creation story and the noah story where more likely taken from babylon (gilgemesh I think he was called.) if not original on there own, and Jesus sighted from the creation story as if it was to be taken literally so to me thats where I feel comfertible standing.
I really, really don't think this has to do with entheogen cultures being supressed, but I guess that's just my understanding of history, the supression of these cultures and other's did'nt come till later.
Quote:
You are not hip to all this it seems? Please see video The Pharmacratic-Inquisition, and find out about Jan Irvin's new book The Holy Mushroom, and of course it's a MUST you discover John Allegro and his book The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross which reveals the cryptic meaning that in the genesis myth the supposed two trees--understood literally as two trees--the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and the Tree of Life are really the very same tree!
I saw the video The Pharmacratic-Inquisition, and I almost died laughing, no offence to you if you believe it but it just does'nt mean shit to me, though I may look into the books you recomended, as I have read stories on the net about this issue, and it does'nt hurt to hear more.
Quote:
I am surprised that you, being into psychedelic experience, and a member here, seem to not to be aware of the significance of entheogens in ritual, mythology, and religion from our past, right into primordial pre-historic times. Surely it must have occurred to you, that the POWER these substances have would have also been very well know about by our ancestors...? And that such experience would have inspired the imagination for all manner of beliefs. Some benevolent and some toxic. The toxic ones are the ones that oppress, manipulate.
the power of these things are weak, i've taken everything, to say they hold some power to the minds of previous generations just makes me think how stupid past generations are and does'nt mean shit to me, because my own experiance has come up with opposing views of there significance.
Quote:
I believe that this matrix has been formed by false beliefs that split us off from out roots with the land, and animals, and bodies, and community. And a big part of this oppression will involve prohibition against free access to entheogenic vegetation! And/also the demonization, and pathologization OF the entheogens and experience. The former happened via oppressive theocratic dogmas, and the latter via 'scientific' dogma. because when science becomes a religion it is called 'Scientism'. And this religion will claim that psychedelic experience, however meaningful, and spiritual, it may feel to the experiencer, is 'distortion', 'psychosis', 'mere chemical reaction' and other dismissive reductionist assertions. And these assertions are based on ignore-ance, like previous religious dogmatic assertions were/are.
believing that peyote is an actual God is what seperates us from reality in my mind, same goes for all entheogens with that tag along.
I hope this does'nt come across as offensive, we both like shrooms and the truth, right? just exchanging ideas from there, so please, do tell me more.
-------------------- hello, your name is life on earth ------------------------------------
"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.
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C.M. Mann
subconscious explorer



Registered: 05/01/08
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: Ego Death]
#9537826 - 01/03/09 01:33 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree with your point. Religion is derived from these explanations of the unknown. I lump all religion together, mainly because of their fanatic worship practices. Actually religion is a subset of all those who engage in fanatic worship.(i.e. royalty, politicians, entertainers, gods, etc.). I agree with OC, that if there is a "GOD" that "GOD" is everyones "GOD". Get over your meaningless rituals, and realize we all are products of the stars.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,851
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: Chronic7]
#9537920 - 01/03/09 01:59 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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i don't think religions lead anywhere at all; i am a lover of poetry and magic and spiritual things so I say that with quite a bit of annoyance after studying many of them, and practicing a few. they simply tie up the minds of the followers. some people can use that to progress within their lives, but mostly it is just cultural framework (and or baggage). by reduction, I still love meditating in a buddhist fashion and that's that. I appreciate the holidays and festivities of the religions of people around me and participate when invited, but it is really like joining all the little who's in whoville (Grinch - dr. seuss) for me.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: redgreenvines]
#9538022 - 01/03/09 02:19 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Who you calling a 'who'?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,851
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#9538032 - 01/03/09 02:23 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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yoo hoo
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: redgreenvines]
#9538042 - 01/03/09 02:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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yoo turn
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: JCoke]
#9539203 - 01/03/09 05:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
JCoke said:
Quote:
You are reading this myth literally, as THOUGH the 'serpent' and 'lord god' and/or 'god' are actual characters in real history. No, it is myth writ by a priesthood, and it is patriarchal and is warning off the Indigenous people--the Hebrews oppressed, from practicing their entheogenic religion.
Quote:
thats what some people like to believe, but that's very rare among people, the whole creation story and the noah story where more likely taken from babylon (gilgemesh I think he was called.) if not original on there own, and Jesus sighted from the creation story as if it was to be taken literally so to me thats where I feel comfertible standing.
I really, really don't think this has to do with entheogen cultures being supressed, but I guess that's just my understanding of history, the supression of these cultures and other's did'nt come till later.
read Shamanism and the Drug propaganda, Dan Russell. He offers good evidence that thats the case. Think about it another way. What do the onctrollers do? They love propaganda, and mindcontrol. So it makes sense that psychedelics freely experienced threaten their hold over our bodyminds. Also study how Indigenous peoples have ben persecuted about their use of entheogens. For example Mazatecs had to have secret magic mushroom religion because of Christian oppression. Think about OUR psychedelic prohibition, even in 'liberated' Amsterdam...?!
Quote:
You are not hip to all this it seems? Please see video The Pharmacratic-Inquisition, and find out about Jan Irvin's new book The Holy Mushroom, and of course it's a MUST you discover John Allegro and his book The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross which reveals the cryptic meaning that in the genesis myth the supposed two trees--understood literally as two trees--the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and the Tree of Life are really the very same tree!
Quote:
I saw the video The Pharmacratic-Inquisition, and I almost died laughing, no offence to you if you believe it but it just does'nt mean shit to me, though I may look into the books you recomended, as I have read stories on the net about this issue, and it does'nt hurt to hear more.
What made you laugh?
Quote:
I am surprised that you, being into psychedelic experience, and a member here, seem to not to be aware of the significance of entheogens in ritual, mythology, and religion from our past, right into primordial pre-historic times. Surely it must have occurred to you, that the POWER these substances have would have also been very well know about by our ancestors...? And that such experience would have inspired the imagination for all manner of beliefs. Some benevolent and some toxic. The toxic ones are the ones that oppress, manipulate.
Quote:
the power of these things are weak, i've taken everything, to say they hold some power to the minds of previous generations just makes me think how stupid past generations are and does'nt mean shit to me, because my own experiance has come up with opposing views of there significanc
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This proclamation by you only exposes YOU. And your experience, which sounds quite shallow. it does not mean you experience is mine or hers his, or 'THE' experience. Entheogens aren't specific, they are more like triggers to the mind, spiritual connectivity with reality. Your sense of lack of meaning as I say says more about you, and your approach, set and setting, attitude etc.
Quote:
I believe that this matrix has been formed by false beliefs that split us off from out roots with the land, and animals, and bodies, and community. And a big part of this oppression will involve prohibition against free access to entheogenic vegetation! And/also the demonization, and pathologization OF the entheogens and experience. The former happened via oppressive theocratic dogmas, and the latter via 'scientific' dogma. because when science becomes a religion it is called 'Scientism'. And this religion will claim that psychedelic experience, however meaningful, and spiritual, it may feel to the experiencer, is 'distortion', 'psychosis', 'mere chemical reaction' and other dismissive reductionist assertions. And these assertions are based on ignore-ance, like previous religious dogmatic assertions were/are.
Quote:
believing that peyote is an actual God is what seperates us from reality in my mind, same goes for all entheogens with that tag along.
I hope this does'nt come across as offensive, we both like shrooms and the truth, right? just exchanging ideas from there, so please, do tell me more.
No your not offending. Express yourself thats why i didn't say 'God' with a capital 'G'. I said eg., 'god of nature'. Now to be 'possessed by the god of nature' This could mean.......all of a sudden you want to dance and sing, chant, you feel horny, and feel the urge to alugh really freely till the tears run, and you see all nature as alive......etc. So we can use a metaphor that for then you are god of nature. You and nature feel fused, flowing togther. Not so feeling alienated for the trees, sky, earth, nature...? make sense?
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JCoke
dream observer



Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 1,229
Loc: maryland
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: zzripz]
#9541417 - 01/04/09 12:52 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
What made you laugh?
I have to get back to you on that actully, it was a couple year ago that I saw it, I just remember it being ridiculous on atleast some of threr theories, my speakers are broken and I really want to see it again to refresh my memory but I have to leave you hanging on this one.
by the way, some reason while I was away from the pc and at work I was thinking all sorts of stupid things where this conversation would go, thinking i'll say this if he says this and all that dumb shit, just goes to show what a waste of time my internal dialogue can really be, 5 mushies for your sane responce.
-------------------- hello, your name is life on earth ------------------------------------
"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: JCoke]
#9542102 - 01/04/09 04:55 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
JCoke said:
Quote:
What made you laugh?
I have to get back to you on that actully, it was a couple year ago that I saw it, I just remember it being ridiculous on atleast some of threr theories, my speakers are broken and I really want to see it again to refresh my memory but I have to leave you hanging on this one.
by the way, some reason while I was away from the pc and at work I was thinking all sorts of stupid things where this conversation would go, thinking i'll say this if he says this and all that dumb shit, just goes to show what a waste of time my internal dialogue can really be, 5 mushies for your sane responce.
well it sounds like your laughing at something you dont even remember what yer laughing at...? Sounds a bum deal to me
5 mushies...? I dont get out of BED for that...! lol
I always like the immediacy of conversation rather than pre-planning it. When i do that it all goes crap when the time arrives. Anyhow hope you see it agin and remember what you laughed at. You never know, you may have changed. It can happen
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JCoke
dream observer



Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 1,229
Loc: maryland
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: zzripz]
#9548819 - 01/05/09 01:15 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
5 mushies...? I dont get out of BED for that...! lol
um, check your ratings on your profile, I don't think you realise what i was talking about, or maybe you did, but anyways.
-------------------- hello, your name is life on earth ------------------------------------
"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: JCoke]
#9549070 - 01/05/09 02:19 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
JCoke said:
Quote:
5 mushies...? I dont get out of BED for that...! lol
um, check your ratings on your profile, I don't think you realise what i was talking about, or maybe you did, but anyways.
haha right. Hey man i love your avatar. (just an aside. HOW do you insert avatars here. at otherforums there is usually help?--you can pm me about it if ya like)
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Diaboleros
Devil's spawn

Registered: 07/20/08
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: zzripz]
#9549560 - 01/05/09 05:46 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Completely agreed. Religions are all based on the same similar experience. Prophets have seen something and try to spread the experience through words. Sure their words are different depending on culture, language, personality and time setting, but thats because they are simple humans like you and me.
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Chronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: Diaboleros]
#9551517 - 01/05/09 02:37 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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For me, this sums up religion perfectly...
"the desire to be happy, is religion"
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giPSY
Stranger


Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 170
Loc: Brazil
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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: Chronic7]
#9579655 - 01/09/09 08:47 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Amazing words! Nice video. Religions are paths to a similar essence. Life essence. "To come to a deeper understanding. To love. To celebrate existance. To grow. To beautify..."
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Red Rhythmic Earth
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Daedramaster
Chemist in training



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Re: Religions basically the same at the core? [Re: giPSY]
#9579791 - 01/09/09 09:14 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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yes, read my signature.
-------------------- "The major religions on the Earth contradict each other left and right. You can't all be correct. And what if all of you are wrong? It's a possibility, you know. You must care about the truth, right? Well, the way to winnow through all the differing contentions is to be skeptical. I'm not any more skeptical about your religious beliefs than I am about every new scientific idea I hear about. But in my line of work, they're called hypotheses, not inspiration and not revelation." -- Dr. Arroway Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985), p. 162. Join the movement! Click here to open your eyes
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