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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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Registered: 01/10/08
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. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #9576891 - 01/09/09 01:04 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

.


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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/18/22 11:39 PM)

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OfflineC.M. Mann
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Registered: 05/01/08
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: deCypher]
    #9577033 - 01/09/09 01:37 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

What are your thoughts on the differences between selectionists, and sheer chance theorists.  The one problem I have with censoring information is WHO is in charge of making the decision!  There is misinformation being taught in all schools every day, but wouldn't you rather have all of the available information to make your own decision?

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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #9577055 - 01/09/09 01:41 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I've heard that the schools are OK with teaching about Intelligent Design in a world religions class, but not in a science class.  This makes sense to me, because ID is not a scientific theory, it is a theological concept.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Ben Stein's [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #9577059 - 01/09/09 01:42 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

C.M. Mann said:
What are your thoughts on the differences between selectionists, and sheer chance theorists.




Could you distinguish the difference between these two?

Quote:

There is misinformation being taught in all schools every day, but wouldn't you rather have all of the available information to make your own decision?




Information about all sorts of different theories is available everywhere.  The point of a science class, however, is to teach the theory that agrees with the most amount of evidence, not to expound on a plethora of different theories that don't match up to the data as well.  If there are two theories that support the data equally well, then both should be taught.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineC.M. Mann
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #9577211 - 01/09/09 02:12 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Evolution is a theory that a one cell organism changes slowly over the course of millions of years, and became a human. The leading theories now are that change was not constant or slow. (i.e. adaptive radiation, punctuated equilibria...). So I'm not sure if you are talking about evolution or natural selection.  If it's natural selection, there is a growing sheer chance theory.---------------------What it comes down to is a leap of faith for evolutionists. How did man undergo millions of years of evolution overnight, and go from ape to man?  Why is there no other example? We have identified only a few grains of sand on the beach.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #9577230 - 01/09/09 02:15 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Why is there no other example?


Huh? Do a leetle research.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #9577242 - 01/09/09 02:17 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

C.M. Mann said:
How did man undergo millions of years of evolution overnight




He didn't.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #9577271 - 01/09/09 02:24 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Aliens? :strokebeard2:


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InvisibleGreen_T
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #9577281 - 01/09/09 02:25 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Its almost impossible to take molecular biology classes if you don't think evolution exists.

my 2 c.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: Green_T]
    #9577311 - 01/09/09 02:32 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

green_titan said:
Its almost impossible to take molecular biology classes if you don't think evolution exists.

my 2 c.




Just like math is pretty hard if you believe addition and subtraction are a lie.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #9577314 - 01/09/09 02:33 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Are you saying that they are not?  We're all one, baby, so addition and subtraction are illusory!

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: Veritas]
    #9577323 - 01/09/09 02:34 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Oh yeah... no wonder I failed algebra, it was obviously a crock of shit to begin with. :smirk:


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #9577337 - 01/09/09 02:36 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Math was invented by the government in order to suppress our enlightenment.  Break free!

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Ben Stein's [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #9577344 - 01/09/09 02:37 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

God made the integers; all the rest is the work of man.
--Leopold Kronecker

Algebra, with its damnable heresy of irrational numbers, should clearly be avoided lest you fall into the den of iniquity that is modern mathematics.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Ben Stein's [Re: deCypher]
    #9577374 - 01/09/09 02:43 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, and what's up with those imaginary numbers? :shiftyeyes: Who do they think they're fooling?

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OfflineC.M. Mann
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Re: Ben Stein's [Re: deCypher]
    #9577426 - 01/09/09 02:54 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Selectionists ascribe all amino-acid substitutions to NATURAL SELECTION. However it has been proven that some amino-acid substitutions were not likely to produce either an evolutionary advantage or disadvantage. The mutational changes responsable for such unimportant substitutions might then be viewed as neutral. ( sheer chance )NEUTRAL EVOLUTION.-------------------------------------------------------------------So you are offering to be the one who decides what information I am allowed to hear, I can't believe that you would agree to censorship.  Freedom of speech is our biggest weakness, and our strongest asset. I speak with all due respect because I know that you are intelligent, and don' support censorship. Maybe you are basing part of your argument on an emotional level. With what I think I know, I kind of support all of the theories equally right now.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Ben Stein's [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #9577506 - 01/09/09 03:06 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Proponents of natural selection hold that neutral and advantageous substitutions are more likely to be reproduced in another generation, whereas disadvantageous substitutions are likely to result in death or unsuccessful reproduction.  Neutral traits in no way contradict the theory of natural selection, as the random mutation of DNA is neutral.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Ben Stein's [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #9577545 - 01/09/09 03:14 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

C.M. Mann said: So you are offering to be the one who decides what information I am allowed to hear, I can't believe that you would agree to censorship.




Would you say that not permitting a theory of evolution that incorporates leprechauns to be included in a science textbook constitutes censorship?

Leprechauns is obviously a bit of an exaggeration, but at some point we have to start restricting mentionable theories on the basis of which are best supported by the evidence at hand.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Offlinemyriadeyes
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Registered: 10/13/08
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: deCypher]
    #9577563 - 01/09/09 03:17 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Do you prefer decency or truth?




The theories I am proposing to take out of the textbooks are not truth. Life from non-life, as far as I'm concerned, is a baseless claim and an extremely volatile one at that. If some people insist these ideas be presented in the classroom, at least make an optional class which doesn't propound them.

Quote:

deCypher said:
If evidence is found contradicting your religious views, would you change them?




Absolutely.


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If you spare a little of your imagination . . .

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: myriadeyes]
    #9577585 - 01/09/09 03:21 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

myriadeyes said: Life from non-life, as far as I'm concerned, is a baseless claim and an extremely volatile one at that.




I'm not familiar enough with the scientific evidence behind biopoesis to give specific examples, but I am very doubtful that the claim is wholly baseless.

From the philosophical stand-point, however, if life did not come from non-life, then where did it come from?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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