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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design
    #9572871 - 01/08/09 07:03 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I recommend this documentary. It covers the persecution in academia of those who adhere to a intelligent design outline to the origin of life.

Let me first say I spent the majority of my life a atheist Darwinist. Although I now don't believe in a monotheistic god, I do believe many religious texts hold great spiritual value. I believe humans to be multidimensional beings, and that the universe is abundant with life. These views of mine come from subjective experience with meditation and astral projection. I cannot prove anything to you in a scientific sense.

Intelligent design is often confused with creationism. I find the biblical version of creationism to do nothing but harm to the idea of intelligent design. Intelligent design is the idea that life has evolved here on earth, but has been intelligently pathed along the way. The discoverer of DNA, Francis Crick, who first got the idea of the double helix while on a acid trip proposed the theory that life on earth was engineered by a higher species, or consciousness. Prominent atheist Richard Dawkins also has proposed this idea. Huge leaps in the evolutionary record suggest that life on earth has seen unaccounted for jumps that conflicts natural selection.

Could intelligent design be a viable alternative to the current entrenched paradigm of Darwinism? I'm not arguing against evolution, nearly proposing there is more to the equation then currently proposed.

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InvisibleDickhead
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #9572922 - 01/08/09 07:10 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Huge leaps in the evolutionary record suggest that life on earth has seen unaccounted for jumps that conflicts natural selection.

Could intelligent design be a viable alternative to the current entrenched paradigm of Darwinism? I'm not arguing against evolution, nearly proposing there is more to the equation then currently proposed.




There is obviously more to the equation, we will likely never understand all of Evolution.     

Simply because we have not accounted for these huge leaps does not mean that they are unaccountable.  I would consider it more likely that we just do not understand the science that led to these leaps, rather than it is because a force just picked it up with arms and put it back with wings.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #9572946 - 01/08/09 07:14 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Intelligent Design tells us nothing.  It merely looks at apparent gaps in our understanding evolution, an "Intelligent Designer"(God) intervened in these places.  It's not just bad science.  It's bad theology.  I recommend the book God After Darwin by John F. Haught.  He explains some of the fallacious thinking behind ID, and as an alternative, presents a theology which is not only compatible with the observed facts of evolution, but actually enriches our understanding of evolution and its meaning.

There is one good thing that the Intelligent Design movement has done:  By trying poke holes in evolution, the ID theorists have presented challenges to evolutionary biologists for them to solve.  Evolutionary biologists have in turn risen to these challenges, and closed most of these gaps that ID has pointed out, thus enriching our knowledge and understanding of evolution.


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InvisibleGreen_T
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #9572957 - 01/08/09 07:15 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Evolution by itself does not prove or disprove intelligent design, but disproves creationism.

I don't think Crick came up with the idea of the double helix on an acid trip - that was discerned using X-ray diffraction if i'm correct. They made cardboard models of sequences, and found the only way they fit was in an antiparallel fashion.

However, many people see common hallucinations on psychedelics, and two snakes intertwining is a common motif in cultures for healing. Two snakes intertwined is also how someone might picture DNA to look like.


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: Dickhead]
    #9572959 - 01/08/09 07:15 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

throy said:
I would consider it more likely that we just do not understand the science that led to these leaps, rather than it is because a force just picked it up with arms and put it back with wings.




Well I wouldn't put it in terms like that. I would consider a form of "cosmic energy" which effects DNA.

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Offlinerajajuju
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #9572962 - 01/08/09 07:16 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

This is what I never understood about "natural selection".. how can it not be "intelligent design"?  Doesnt life have to choose "YES" rather than "NO" for an evolutionary movement, change or so forth?  If a selection is being made, to me that would imply some sort of intelligence making a selection.  A selection requires the background of an intelligence in the first place.  All of the various survival methods of various creatures, the strong prevail the weak die, etc. - you see, for those traits to continue or mature, the evolution must agree with the results. It follows the path of success.

I dont see how you could regard DNA as anything but "intelligent", and in a most profound way as well.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #9572971 - 01/08/09 07:17 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)



Quote:

Who knew that Ben Stein, that sad-eyed, monotone little man from the silver screen, harbored a heart so black and so twisted that he – not Pat Robertson or James Dobson – would argue, without a trace of irony, that Charles Darwin was directly responsible for the Holocaust? The scene where Stein stands before a statue of the great thinker – you know, the one where the soundtrack features the exact same music as that which filled the screen during shots of Europe’s death camps – is so morally and ethically insidious that I couldn’t help but wonder why Mama and Papa Stein had been spared during the period. As expected, every possible scientific argument is twisted to serve Stein’s agenda, and interviews are selectively edited to ensure that the scientists themselves are turned into stammering clowns. Stein, though a Republican, always struck me as a man who was reasonably intelligent at the very least, but having decided that his inane Jewish heritage is suddenly more important than the whole of Western thought, he has joined with the mouth-breathers and truth assassins at last. More than a shot across evolution’s bow, this is a no-holds-barred war against the Enlightenment and all it hath wrought through the ages. Depressing, mean-spirited, and devious to its core, Expelled celebrates stupidity as the American virtue.



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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: Green_T]
    #9573009 - 01/08/09 07:21 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

green_titan said:


I don't think Crick came up with the idea of the double helix on an acid trip - that was discerned using X-ray diffraction if i'm correct. They made cardboard models of sequences, and found the only way they fit was in an antiparallel fashion.





A book called Supernatural by Graham Hancock makes this claim, but you can find a number of articles by googleing "double helix LSD".

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9573057 - 01/08/09 07:27 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

"Would argue, without a trace of irony, that Charles Darwin was directly responsible for the Holocaust?"

I didn't hear him mention once that Darwinism was responsible for the Holocaust. Rather he showed that the Nazis followed a survival of the fittest ideology which led to the Holocaust. He makes the claim that Darwinism and natural selection devalue the individual human being.

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InvisibleGreen_T
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Re: Ben Stein's [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9573061 - 01/08/09 07:28 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Ben stein misquoting Darwin (wikipedia)

Seems he edited a Darwin quote to mislead, and Darwin didn't support eugenics.

EDIT: Im still not convinced about the double helix LSD story, but I know PCR was inspired by LSD.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #9573091 - 01/08/09 07:32 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

.


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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/18/22 11:39 PM)

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Ben Stein's [Re: Green_T]
    #9573127 - 01/08/09 07:37 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

green_titan said:
Ben stein misquoting Darwin (wikipedia)

Seems he edited a Darwin quote to mislead, and Darwin didn't support eugenics.

EDIT: Im still not convinced about the double helix LSD story, but I know PCR was inspired by LSD.




That's fine, convincing someone else via online forums might not be a feat capable of man :P.

I do remember this one quote from the movie. Its about a 30 second sequence in a hour and half movie. With all the scrutiny this movie got, someone was sure to find something. I wouldn't judge the entire film on one misquote though.

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #9573147 - 01/08/09 07:39 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
Ben Stein is the most stuck up, dumb, anti-intellectual, unfunny moron I have ever had the displeasure of listening to. Did I also mention that he's flat out wrong... a lot?




If you want to constructively contribute to the thread please leave personal loath out and provide examples to your claims.

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #9573280 - 01/08/09 08:02 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

.


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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/18/22 11:39 PM)

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #9573700 - 01/08/09 09:00 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said: These views of mine come from subjective experience with meditation and astral projection. I cannot prove anything to you in a scientific sense.




Can you elaborate on what experiences have led you to this conclusion?


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InvisibleChiefGreenLeaf

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Re: Ben Stein's [Re: Green_T]
    #9574170 - 01/08/09 09:58 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

green_titan said:
Ben stein misquoting Darwin (wikipedia)

Seems he edited a Darwin quote to mislead, and Darwin didn't support eugenics.

EDIT: Im still not convinced about the double helix LSD story, but I know PCR was inspired by LSD.



A lot of Darwin's family and inner circle were HUGE eugenics supporters.

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: deCypher]
    #9574178 - 01/08/09 09:59 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

c0sm0nautt said: These views of mine come from subjective experience with meditation and astral projection. I cannot prove anything to you in a scientific sense.




Can you elaborate on what experiences have led you to this conclusion?




Anyone who has astral projected just once can make the claim consciousness is separate from the physical body. We traverse multidimensional realms every night as we sleep in the dream state.

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #9574210 - 01/08/09 10:02 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I already conceded to the misquotation. In regards to the speech at the University, it looked very staged to me, and was filmed sort of like a movie set. So this comes as no surprise. There's some interesting claims at the website you linked, but it still does not take away from the intelligent design message.

As far as the guy who was supposedly fired from the Smithsonian, they interviewed the person who made the layoff and he did not deny the claims.

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #9574338 - 01/08/09 10:21 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

.


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.

Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/18/22 11:39 PM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled" Intelligent Design [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #9574370 - 01/08/09 10:25 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

it scares me when smart people are into this stuff
scares the crap out of me.
i wonder if the right to vote should be parceled out more carefully
the last 8 years made monkeys of all of us!


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