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 Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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 Re: Are doctors harming humanity?  [Re: Redstorm]
#9572745 - 01/08/09 06:47 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
They've been pretty damn good for increasing the life span of humans by a huge number of years.
we know this is fact because they told us that
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 Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
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Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9572749 - 01/08/09 06:47 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Cancer is irrelevant to natural selection for much of the time since it strikes after offspring have been produced.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9572758 - 01/08/09 06:48 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Redstorm said:
They've been pretty damn good for increasing the life span of humans by a huge number of years.
we know this is fact because they told us that
What the hell is this supposed to mean? What else is causing the increased lifespans?
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9572759 - 01/08/09 06:49 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beege said:
I think he's full of it. I don't see how having cancer or weak organs could prove to be a desirable trait.
they make great human sheilds
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Cameron
Too Many Words
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 4,437
Loc: Canada
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9572781 - 01/08/09 06:52 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't think he meant anything as extreme as cancer, but he did mention something along those lines: people with the 'sickle cell' blood abnormality (which is bad) are naturally immune to malaria as a result (which is good).
You never know what might help and what might harm; I think that was his general point. And I'm still convinced I agree with him.
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boxcarguy07
Uno
Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 3,942
Loc: SC
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Redstorm]
#9572853 - 01/08/09 07:01 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Redstorm said:
They've been pretty damn good for increasing the life span of humans by a huge number of years.
we know this is fact because they told us that
What the hell is this supposed to mean? What else is causing the increased lifespans?
if you watched videos maybe you'd know 
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 Music doesn't stop at the ears when it begins at the heart.
 "Sit in reverie and watch the changing color of the waves that break upon the idle seashore of the mind."
-Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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satyr
אתה בעצמך יודע
Registered: 11/13/07
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Cameron]
#9572876 - 01/08/09 07:03 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Doctors increasing lifespans??? 
The same ones who believe that society should pump its veins full of toxic vaccines, drugs, and deadly therapies?
Dont get me wrong, I believe that doctors are beneficial in some instances(i.e. emergencies), but medical cartel that backs most doctors has a much different agenda in mind than human health. This being the case, most doctors simply prescribe people with drugs and treatments that do nothing but further deteriorate their health, and dismiss treatments that actually work with little to no side effects.("alternative" therapies)
The fact is that the big business of the medical is just that, big business. With so much money being made on bad health, sick people are a hot commodity. What kind of impact would be made on the health industry if 35 percent of cancer and diabetes patients were cured next year? How would this be for business? Just being hypothetical here.
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Looking for Astrophytum asterias specimens; have cacti for trade 
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: boxcarguy07]
#9572878 - 01/08/09 07:03 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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I would make an exception, but that one was ten minutes long. It's a lot easier for someone to make a point in text than click a link to a video that I have to sit all the way through.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: satyr]
#9572886 - 01/08/09 07:05 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok then, what has caused the increased lifespan?
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Calix
Seek, Kill, Destroy
Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,282
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9572918 - 01/08/09 07:10 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beege said:
I think he's full of it. I don't see how having cancer or weak organs could prove to be a desirable trait.
a weak organ isnt a desirable trait...but a weak organ doesnt necessarily put you at a disadvantage, I have IHSS aka hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and I can run just as fast for just as long as any other person, i can jump as high, live just as long.
as long as i stay away from french fries...
none of this is taking away from the process of natural selection or survival of the fittest (evolution).
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"Im too drunk to taste this chicken" 
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Beege
gatherer
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Posts: 4,466
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Calix]
#9572927 - 01/08/09 07:11 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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ah but somebody else that can eat french fries will eat them with impunity whereas you, without the knowledge provided by a doctor, will still eat french fries and be much more unhealthy.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9572943 - 01/08/09 07:13 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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No one eats fat clogging french fries with impunity.
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Calix
Seek, Kill, Destroy
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Posts: 1,282
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9572989 - 01/08/09 07:19 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beege said:
ah but somebody else that can eat french fries will eat them with impunity whereas you, without the knowledge provided by a doctor, will still eat french fries and be much more unhealthy.
that isnt even worth a response im sorry.......
thats highschool logic
maybe if we lived in a world where dr's didnt exist and french fries were known to be the staple of human diet.
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"Im too drunk to taste this chicken"
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kriminalelement
"jesus wept."
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9573052 - 01/08/09 07:27 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'd say your dead wrong. Humans have so much more to offer than their physical capabilities, and most of the illnesses doctors treat aren't incapacitating in a "genetic" sense - in other words, when you go to the doctor, there's a 99% chance you're there because of an illness that will not be passed genetically to any offspring.
Besides stopping preventable death and improving quality of life, doctors also make sure that people's illnesses don't cause them to become a burden on society. Imagine all the strep infections you had when you were little, or sinus infections, etc. Without doctors and antibiotics, the infection would have likely spread to your heart, giving you scarlett fever. That wouldn't have killed you in all likelihood, but you would be a permanent invalid due to a heart condition from a childhood illness. You would need constant care from your relatives until you died.
Okay, so now I'll play along with your little misguided, self-absorbed scenario and talk about the doctors and patients you intended to mention: doctors who treat patients who are ill with some sort of genetically passable and congenital illness. These doctors treat patients who could pass their illness onto their children, like Multiple Sclerosis. My response to this is three-fold:
1. People with rare genetic disorders (and genetic disorders are typically pretty rare) usually DONT pass those disorders onto their children. To do so, they would need to meet someone who is a carrier for that same disorder, because disorders are almost always recessive, with a few notable exceptions (like Hutchinsons).
2. People with genetic predispositions for something more common, like obesity, will probably pass this on to their children. Following the advice of doctors in this case could dramatically reduce or eliminate morbid obesity, and in cases of extreme obesity provide safe guidelines for diet and exercise.
3. Let's look back at our example of Multiple Sclerosis. Yes, someone with MS will pass this gene onto their children, who could either have the illness or pass it on to a future generation. Yes, a doctor keeping a person with MS alive is increasing the incidence of MS in the human population. But humans have so much more to offer than their physical bodies. They have their minds, their hearts, and their unique capacities that transcend whatever petty, superficial criteria for survival would be required in "the wild". Look at Stephen Hawking. He represents the best possibilities humans have to survive in the long run - a human with the mathematical capabilities to understand the space-time continuum, perfect space travel, and ultimately colonize the universe. As humans, we can't get stuck in the comsmically elementary roles of imagining our survival in terms of jungle evolution. That is the past. Our future is in our minds and their ability to explore space, inner and outer.
BTW : for those of you who are going to make some disgusting comment about "retards", my sister is a nurse for special needs people and we could ALL learn something from them. They work so hard every day to be good people. Being around them and working with them is inspiring and is something everyone should do at least once. They have an important place in our society and should be respected as individuals.
Edit: Die Commie said it better than I can
Quote:
Doctors dont circumvent natural selection, they are part of it. They simply change the fitness landscape making a higher percentage of humans fit to survive, like all evolved traits. The ability to proactively heal ourselves is an evolved trait of fitness just like camouflage or fast speed we commonly think of.
This is very true. If you don't think so, then you don't understand the evolutionary process and you need to go back to your 9th grade biology class.
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While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.
Eugene V Debs
Edited by kriminalelement (01/08/09 07:32 PM)
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Beege
gatherer
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Calix]
#9573158 - 01/08/09 07:42 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Calix said:
Quote:
Beege said:
ah but somebody else that can eat french fries will eat them with impunity whereas you, without the knowledge provided by a doctor, will still eat french fries and be much more unhealthy.
that isnt even worth a response im sorry.......
thats highschool logic
maybe if we lived in a world where dr's didnt exist and french fries were known to be the staple of human diet.
then don't respond... I still don't see what your point is or how it pertains to the topic.
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Calix
Seek, Kill, Destroy
Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,282
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9573218 - 01/08/09 07:51 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beege said:
Quote:
Calix said:
Quote:
Beege said:
ah but somebody else that can eat french fries will eat them with impunity whereas you, without the knowledge provided by a doctor, will still eat french fries and be much more unhealthy.
that isnt even worth a response im sorry.......
thats highschool logic
maybe if we lived in a world where dr's didnt exist and french fries were known to be the staple of human diet.
then don't respond... I still don't see what your point is or how it pertains to the topic.
guess you dont get alot.
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"Im too drunk to taste this chicken"
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Beege
gatherer
Registered: 08/02/08
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Calix]
#9573269 - 01/08/09 07:59 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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yea thats mature
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mathewww
Lurker.
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Posts: 926
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9573340 - 01/08/09 08:10 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beege said:
I was thinking about evolution vs. doctors today. From what I can see, in the end doctors are harming the human race by practicing their trade. Think about it, by treating everybody they are eliminating natural selection and thus allowing the weaker of the species to survive. This weakens our gene pool which in turn allows us to become more susceptible to disease. It might sound cold, but it's something I've been thinking about.
Your input is welcome and appreciated 
Humans have "evolved" to a species that is complex enough for sustainability. Part of the reason we've practiced medicine and have become a prominent species in the timeline of evolution is because we have become a species of such ingenuity, consciousness, self-preservation... naturally we want to preserve ourselves and live the best life possible. I guess that's arguable, but it seems as if just about everyone I know, wants to live and want their loved ones to live just as long.
Sometimes I wonder though, how things would be if we all just gained the immunities we have now, but gained them all by our own bodies and without the use of "medicine", hospitals, M.D.'s, insurance, and the like.
But, when it's really thought out - our minds have now naturally evolved to such a consciousness of surroundings and using them to our benefit and for, as I said before, our own survival. Some may say even a better life.
...And if I could just say one thing about Healthcare, it's that I believe it's all a ton of bullshit dictated by greedy corporate thugs. I hate the politics of it all, I guess. The thing that perplexed me most of all is the entire industry and trillions of trillions of dollars that is profited off human beings, other animals of our Earth and the entire environment and world at large.
*I read only the first post, by the poster*
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Beege
gatherer
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: mathewww]
#9573361 - 01/08/09 08:13 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mathewww said:
*I read only the first post, by the poster*
thank you
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MrBump
Third prize is you're fired
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Posts: 4,263
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9573395 - 01/08/09 08:18 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beege said:
I was thinking about evolution vs. doctors today. From what I can see, in the end doctors are harming the human race by practicing their trade. Think about it, by treating everybody they are eliminating natural selection and thus allowing the weaker of the species to survive. This weakens our gene pool which in turn allows us to become more susceptible to disease. It might sound cold, but it's something I've been thinking about.
Your input is welcome and appreciated
you sound like
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If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.
There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.
Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?
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