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 Beege
gatherer
 
Registered: 08/02/08
Posts: 4,466
Loc: Germany 
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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#9572101 - 01/08/09 04:54 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by Beege (01/08/09 09:33 PM)
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 Crasher
αἱρετίζω
Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 6,220
Loc: Tardy to the Party
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 Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9572122 - 01/08/09 04:58 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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We'll see how you feel when you're diagnosed with a possibly fatal yet treatable illness in the future.
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Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...
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Calix
Seek, Kill, Destroy
Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,282
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9572127 - 01/08/09 04:59 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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i personally am a fan of "survival of the fittest" concepts.
its for the greater good to weed out weak genetics.
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"Im too drunk to taste this chicken" 
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DrunkenAttempt
Chemically Inclined
Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Nova Scotia, CANADA
Last seen: 9 years, 28 days
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9572136 - 01/08/09 05:00 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Humanity is already so fucked up already it doesn't really matter...
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Nature is my God, Science is my religion.
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Calix
Seek, Kill, Destroy
Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,282
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Calix]
#9572142 - 01/08/09 05:01 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wouldnt go so far as to say dr's are the caus of weak genetics.
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"Im too drunk to taste this chicken"
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Calix
Seek, Kill, Destroy
Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,282
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Quote:
DrunkenAttempt said:
Humanity is already so fucked up already it doesn't really matter...
weve never really had it "right."
its been touch and go since day 1.
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"Im too drunk to taste this chicken"
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Beege
gatherer
Registered: 08/02/08
Posts: 4,466
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Crasher]
#9572148 - 01/08/09 05:02 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crasher said:
We'll see how you feel when you're diagnosed with a possibly fatal yet treatable illness in the future.
don't you put that bad juju on me ricky bobby!
but seriously it's just a discussion, no need for hostility.
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boxcarguy07
Uno
Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 3,942
Loc: SC
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9572183 - 01/08/09 05:08 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't know about the whole gene thing, but I don't really like western medicine very much. I think the best thing western medicine is good for is life-threatening emergencies.
other than that, it's mostly just treating symptoms and prescribing drugs and dividing the body up into parts when it doesn't really work like that
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 Music doesn't stop at the ears when it begins at the heart.
 "Sit in reverie and watch the changing color of the waves that break upon the idle seashore of the mind."
-Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9572188 - 01/08/09 05:09 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Doctors dont circumvent natural selection, they are part of it. They simply change the fitness landscape making a higher percentage of humans fit to survive, like all evolved traits. The ability to proactively heal ourselves is an evolved trait of fitness just like camouflage or fast speed we commonly think of.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: boxcarguy07]
#9572194 - 01/08/09 05:10 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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They've been pretty damn good for increasing the life span of humans by a huge number of years.
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Beege
gatherer
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Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: DieCommie]
#9572196 - 01/08/09 05:11 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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giving somebody a new organ is saving their life and thus, allowing them to survive when they wouldn't before. That's circumventing natural selection IMO. And that's just one example.
don't get me wrong, I'm not against doctors. I just like looking at things from every angle.
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backintheriver
Registered: 08/21/08
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9572219 - 01/08/09 05:15 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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you are right. but would you actually want to change that?
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twighead
mͯó
Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 28,394
Loc: Glenn Gould's Fuck Windmi...
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9572220 - 01/08/09 05:16 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well hopefully logical order continues and humans have less and less reason to fear their genetic weakness
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Big_Whoop
giver of two shits
Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 2,442
Loc: southern ontario 
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: boxcarguy07]
#9572223 - 01/08/09 05:16 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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i hate thinking about this shit... the end of humanity and all. it seems like its going to take longer than predicted though..
when you think about it, penguins will outlast humanity and life will go on in the end, so theres not too much to worry about.. dyings going to be a trip anyways..
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the pillars of the universe are taking a break at the moment, please call again
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,814
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9572225 - 01/08/09 05:16 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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This weakens our gene pool which in turn allows us to become more susceptible to disease.
There's your problem! There is no evidence that it would weaken the gene pool as a whole. Cicle-cell anemia, for example, gives its sufferers much stronger defence against malaria. Do you see my point? We can't say that having X disease is always bad, because we can't see (or even imagine) every other disease we are likely to face.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Beege
gatherer
Registered: 08/02/08
Posts: 4,466
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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invalid question,
I believe they would call that "leading the witness" in legal speak.
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Calix
Seek, Kill, Destroy
Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,282
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Beege]
#9572234 - 01/08/09 05:18 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beege said:
giving somebody a new organ is saving their life and thus, allowing them to survive when they wouldn't before. That's circumventing natural selection IMO. And that's just one example.
don't get me wrong, I'm not against doctors. I just like looking at things from every angle.
Just because someone contracts a virus, or injures themselves doesnt deem them genetically weak.
sorry organ transplantation isnt a good example of circumventing natural selection. Keeping retarded babies alive would be a much better example (i know cruel)
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"Im too drunk to taste this chicken"
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Beege
gatherer
Registered: 08/02/08
Posts: 4,466
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: trendal]
#9572244 - 01/08/09 05:19 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
trendal said:
This weakens our gene pool which in turn allows us to become more susceptible to disease.
There's your problem! There is no evidence that it would weaken the gene pool as a whole. Cicle-cell anemia, for example, gives its sufferers much stronger defence against malaria. Do you see my point? We can't say that having X disease is always bad, because we can't see (or even imagine) every other disease we are likely to face.
well it just seems to me that healing terminally ill people with genetic predispositions to certain diseases would, in turn, reintroduce those particular characteristics back into the gene pool. 
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: DieCommie]
#9572246 - 01/08/09 05:19 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Doctors dont circumvent natural selection, they are part of it. They simply change the fitness landscape making a higher percentage of humans fit to survive, like all evolved traits. The ability to proactively heal ourselves is an evolved trait of fitness just like camouflage or fast speed we commonly think of.
I find it ironic when people appeal to natural selection in biological terms in discussing modern humans. Biologically we haven't changed much since we lived in caves, but with the advent of language, we created a whole new kind of evolution: cultural evolution. By reducing our evolution to mere biology, social darwinism is, in a sense, asking us to revert to our caveman days.
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Beege
gatherer
Registered: 08/02/08
Posts: 4,466
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: Are doctors harming humanity? [Re: Calix]
#9572255 - 01/08/09 05:20 PM (14 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Calix said:
Quote:
Beege said:
giving somebody a new organ is saving their life and thus, allowing them to survive when they wouldn't before. That's circumventing natural selection IMO. And that's just one example.
don't get me wrong, I'm not against doctors. I just like looking at things from every angle.
Just because someone contracts a virus, or injures themselves doesnt deem them genetically weak.
sorry organ transplantation isnt a good example of circumventing natural selection. Keeping retarded babies alive would be a much better example (i know cruel)
Organ failure can be directly linked to genetics (ie: the heart).
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