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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #9571158 - 01/08/09 02:04 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Oh the individual is a fault.  But when you live in a society where the only way to make bank is to have bank is when that falls apart.  People change when large amounts of money are in their minds.  Its kinda scary, i have seen it.  I think you have too...


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9571288 - 01/08/09 02:22 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Not all people change, obviously - otherwise we would be living in a world filled with money addicts, which isn't the case.
Anyways, those who do change in a non-constructive way is because of their own misunderstandings and internal conflicts, and not because of money themselves.
Nothing else but the self can provide with actual happiness and fulfillment, as well as misery and sadness come only from within. Money, or any outside factor can't generate an emotion in anyone, even though some people tend to think so.

Personally, I think I would be better with more money than less, because this would allow me to travel in every corner of this planet, get in touch with different cultures and different minded people, see interesting landscapes and architecture, and learn new languages first hand. :wink:
Also, this would make me able to put my curiosities into practice and benefit their fruits (or reap the disaster :lol:)
If instead of using all those money in this way, I would choose to bust my ass of gaining more and more just for the feeling knowing that I have accumulated an impressing wealth, for the purpose of making other people envy me, then it would be only my fault for ending up miserable and shallow. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #9571329 - 01/08/09 02:28 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Not all people are as beautiful as you are.  To some people money is what makes them happy, not traveling the world and seeing our home earth.  For instance a buddy of mine i grew up with had parents one was a judge and one was a lawyer.  They were the biggest cheap asses ever!  They made fucking bank but never spent any of it.  They got pleasure from just making money and having it.  Just knowing that they have a lot of money was what fueled them to make more.  And to me that kinda life style is just sick.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Offlinemyshroomyhead
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9571532 - 01/08/09 03:06 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe consume is a result of not being happy.
That's why maybe drugs aren't legal.
Because the gov probably knows, you realize that consume of "things" can't make you happy.

How can you trust people who you don't even know.
Just from television and you can obviously see, they lack of love and intelligence.
It's a joke even to ask the question whether to trust or not.
Of course there are always people in gov who are positive and try to decide wisely, but i really think the majority of people becoming politicians are not that intelligent.

Edited by myshroomyhead (01/08/09 03:10 PM)

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9571651 - 01/08/09 03:30 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Still, it really comes down to the individual's responsibility.
Is nuclear power bad because some people choose to destroy? Isn't the same nuclear power one of the main sources of energy? Who's "bad" in all that?
I also wouldn't go as far as saying that this is sick, because it would imply an emotional and negative judgment from me. It's just people making more or less aware decisions, according to the understanding they have in a particular moment, the emotional involvement, and influenced by their past experiences.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #9571706 - 01/08/09 03:40 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Your very much right, i just don't trust people i guess:shrug:  And with the history of my government i have a good reason not to trust a damn word.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Offlinemyshroomyhead
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #9571707 - 01/08/09 03:40 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Still, it really comes down to the individual's responsibility.
Is nuclear power bad because some people choose to destroy? Isn't the same nuclear power one of the main sources of energy? Who's "bad" in all that?
I also wouldn't go as far as saying that this is sick, because it would imply an emotional and negative judgment from me. It's just people making more or less aware decisions, according to the understanding they have in a particular moment, the emotional involvement, and influenced by their past experiences.




That's the political correct excuse for being an asshole.
I mean you can justify any behavior with that reasoning. And i don't believe that's good for the sake of all, if people who are clearly irresponsible have that kind of power.

Edited by myshroomyhead (01/08/09 05:20 PM)

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Offlinezzripz
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: myshroomyhead]
    #9572039 - 01/08/09 04:42 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Noones mentioned the Federal Reserve yet!

Apparently it is one of the most blatant rip offs ever...? Bascially they--the bankers/elite/yeah Illuminati (repaet three times and turn around) have everyone in 'eternal freaking DEBT'--theres this great animated Youtube vid that shows it so even math failures like me can...kinda get it
You go to bank. You ask for a loan. They give you money out of thin air AND ASK FOR INTEREST'

rIGHT NOW PEOPLE ARE GOING BUST, LOSING JOBS, CARS, HOUSES, YOU NAME IT. Many people were tricked by banks to take out LOANS they couldn't afford to pay back, credit cards. In fact they preyed ON people who would struggle.

This is not some coincidence going on people. This is planned. People with SO MUCH money that it is beyond your imagination actually plan. They are ruthless and we are like the peasants. In fact they think of us as cattle. And they get great thrill from fuckin with us. And watching us go....'Illuminati...? you crazy??? hahaha' they're larfin all the way to the bank. .Hey? wait a minute! they own the fukin bank!!
big pyramids with eyes on top hey

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: zzripz]
    #9572201 - 01/08/09 05:11 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Noones mentioned the Federal Reserve yet!

Apparently it is one of the most blatant rip offs ever...?



Its purpose is to manipulate interest rates so as to regulate the process of money creation.  Nothing more, nothing less.  It does have the problem of being a semi-private entity which often serves the interest of bankers more than it does the public, and I certainly don't like the way it's set up, but it's not part of this vast globalist conspiracy that the crazies keep talking about.

Quote:

Bascially they--the bankers/elite/yeah Illuminati (repaet three times and turn around) have everyone in 'eternal freaking DEBT'



If you are talking about "debt-based" currency, that is not the creation of the federal reserve.  It is what banks naturally do.  They create money by lending out more than they have in deposits.  The Federal Reserve attempts to regulate this process by manipulating interest rates, so that banks don't create too much or too little money. 

Quote:

You go to bank. You ask for a loan. They give you money out of thin air AND ASK FOR INTEREST'



Yes, interest is the one thing that gives them incentive to give loans in the first place.  Banks are private institutions that need to make a profit.  They stand nothing to gain by lending you money and getting the same amount back.


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Offlinedeyon01
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #9572411 - 01/08/09 05:43 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

It's so nice to know not everyone is a fuckin dumbass.  Thanks guys!  It gets frustrating when you try to explain this shit to people and they're all mindcontrolled.  Especially friends and family.  It's like, really?  This is happening right in front of your eyes!


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------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Offlinejvm
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: deyon01]
    #9572439 - 01/08/09 05:48 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deyon01 said:
It's so nice to know not everyone is a fuckin dumbass.  Thanks guys!  It gets frustrating when you try to explain this shit to people and they're all mindcontrolled.  Especially friends and family.  It's like, really?  This is happening right in front of your eyes!




Well eventually they'll  start noticing it. Most likely when it bites them in the ass.

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: jvm]
    #9574125 - 01/08/09 09:53 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Money is pretty necessary for an economy larger than two towns.

The problem with this world is what people spend their money on.

crap
crap
crap

cant blame them.. what else would they spend their money on? meaningful stuff? what for? to add to their completely meaningless lives?



Anyway, a flick on the forehead to anyone who thinks its perfectly OK for virtual money to be lent out..

a bank should only be allowed to lend out money that it actually has.

But GROWTH will not occur if this is the case. in order for GROWTH, you need people making arrangements with eachother in advance of the actual product. You need them throwing money at eachother before there is wealth to actually count.

Who does growth help?

who?

Who is aided by the notion of a continually growing economy?

growth is destroying this earth, it is completely illogical and it is a JOKE that people nod their heads when someone talks about 'economic growth' as if it is a GOOD THING.

number of millionaires is growing.. but the percentage of population with wealth is shrinking.

WAKE UP PEOPLE

obviously the number of millionaires is going to grow when you consider the value of money constantly drops.

no one seems to notice this..

But on paper it looks damn good. the numbers keep rising



Agreeing with the national reserve = brainwashed.
Thinking that happiness is found in having lots of money = brainwashed.

though that is NOT to say that the national reserve cant serve a good purpose. its NOT to say that money CANT buy you happiness. On the contrary, money can buy a man plenty of happiness if he knows what to spend it on. And money can even buy him love - for money represents power and thus gives him more ways of expressing himself and thus allows him more ways of genuinely woeing a catch.


But There is never a reason to print more money. Why print more money???? why not just make the existing dollars more valuable??? (unless you were TRYING to make money worth less)

its all pure craziness!!!


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: myshroomyhead]
    #9575504 - 01/09/09 03:42 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

myshroomyhead said:
That's the political correct excuse for being an asshole.




Can you maybe elaborate further?
What does "political correct excuse" mean, and what does it have to do with my statements?

Quote:

I mean you can justify any behavior with that reasoning.




What reasoning?
Are you implying that pleading for personal responsibility is something that harms, something that is inaccurate, and that instead what we must do is blame the others for our own stupidity and inability to decide what's best for us? That it's better to expect from the others to pamper us and take care of our shit?
Good luck with all that! :failboat:

Quote:

And i don't believe that's good for the sake of all, if people who are clearly irresponsible have that kind of power.




What people are clearly irresponsible, and what power do they have?
Do you even know what you're arguing about?
Seems to me that you don't. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: deyon01]
    #9575574 - 01/09/09 04:49 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deyon01 said:
It's so nice to know not everyone is a fuckin dumbass.  Thanks guys!  It gets frustrating when you try to explain this shit to people and they're all mindcontrolled.  Especially friends and family.  It's like, really?  This is happening right in front of your eyes!




What exactly is happening in front of their eyes? :strokebeard3:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Invisiblehamandcheese
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #9575630 - 01/09/09 05:32 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I really don't get all the money money hating on these forums.

when I consider what the main goal (at least in IMO/E) of money is, i think of wanting to provide a comfortable living situation for yourself and family. I want to provide a life ripe with opportunity for my offspring: and one extremely viable way to do this is make sure the both have and understand money.

Money is not intrinsically evil, nor is it good. its is merely a means to purchase goods and services.  Its how you use your money that has a bigger impact on how "happy" you are than how much you have but having more of allows you more opportunities to use it in ways you deem important.


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OfflineDiaboleros
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: hamandcheese]
    #9576006 - 01/09/09 08:55 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

How can people trust their government? The people ARE the government. Who else? Aliens? LOL

Capitalism is the new religion. Money is the new God. Greed is the highest virtue. Rich people are the new saints.

Gotta love our world today, everybody is complaining about the misery, but at the same time, everyody is contributing to it by trying to get rich.

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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: Diaboleros]
    #9576461 - 01/09/09 11:30 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

So true.

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: xFrockx]
    #9576472 - 01/09/09 11:33 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Yup!


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: Diaboleros]
    #9576916 - 01/09/09 01:09 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

The idea that the individual is the government, and it is that simple, is a bit trite in my opinion.  It is the political equivalent of the spiritual advice "we are all one". (On a side note, it is very interesting to notice the almost polar difference between these similar attitudes!)

We get lost in the system, only because it has been around for so long. People begin to think that certain patriotic ideals are functional reasons. They think that "for the sake of freedom" is actually meaningful basis for action. They start to think that freedom is the government, because it can apparently provide certain freedoms.

It is then of course natural that we "spread our freedom" around the globe.

This is ridiculous. Because we live in the same world that we act in, freedom is and can only be an ideal. There is the freedom to act and influence the world, but there is also the freedom from the same influences.

The art of modern politics is ignoring one half of this "freedom". To explain further, this is characterized by Jean Paul Sartre's concept "bad faith".

The typical modern politician who is in bad faith, will invest his outward political motive in either immanence (an unhindered existence), or transcendence (action which brings change). But at the same time, he masks his choice in the notion of a unification, which he calls "freedom", or "justice". So for the purposes of his political motive, he relies and preserves the dualistic matrix of action, but he denies partiality and presents this in a sugar coated unification called "freedom".

In an example, it is very simple: Does a person have the freedom to listen to music, or does his neighbor have the freedom to exist in unpolluted silence? The politician will choose one or the other for the sake of "freedom".

Quote:

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
-Thomas Jefferson






So, "for the sake of freedom" is bad faith in action. If it is thus considered that we must share this world, (that is, if we acknowledge the humanistic consequences of our actions); "for the sake of freedom" is just a sugar coated appeal for vague political action.

For "the sake of freedom", is not a reason in itself. Politically speaking, it is implied that we all desire freedom (of course!). The unspecified notion of freedom is simple, animalistic energy, masked as a humanistic endeavor. But again, it is not an endevour.

We should realize that the political action of humanity can only be expressed as either revolution, or its opposite, the establishment of systematic hierarchy. This is the duality of our actions that in our concern we must consider. Do not mix these considerations up in bad faith. Realize that actions are specifically directed, or in other words; actions have consequences.

Albert Camus held that the energy of a revolution and rebellion, is due course (if successful) to eventually become tyrannical. He was right, it is the same basic energy of action. This energy is what Nietzsche referred to as the will to power.

The basic key to understanding the government, is that it cannot be trusted. This was the fundamental emphasis of the constitution.

Quote:


once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions.
-Thomas Jefferson





Understanding the manipulations of politicians, comes down to understanding their language, and how it relates to their proposed actions.

Anyone who vaguely, but explicitly calls attention to patriotism, freedom, justice in a political motivation, is not to be trusted. . Freedom, justice, and patriotism are implicit ideals of politics. The establishment of our constitution is the only necessary explicit decree of these ideals.

Today, Explicit (or as previously mentioned; functional) appeals to freedom, justice, and patriotism should serve as alarms for the intelligent citizen. A patriotic politician: Oh, so this politician assures us that he is pro freedom, so we can rest assured that he is not "for tyranny". Thanks for the clarification Mr. Politician.

A politician or a law should be described by its function, not its implicit ideal. There is no need for a politician to mention that a certain action is "for the sake of freedom". While this may be true or untrue, we should recognize that there is no use saying it. it must go without saying. There is no use in being pro-freedom, because nobody would vote for anti-freedom. Just the same, we should be repulsed by laws like "the patriot act", which calls attention to an ideal, rather than function (patriotism).

The real "use" of this, is consolidating the bad faith of a population. Speaking of freedom in the way it is commonly referred to it today, is just about as confounding to the real issues, as references to God. To the extent that freedom, justice, and God exist, between you and I, they must be implicit.

A faith in a system, is only an alternative faith to faith in God. Don't the consequent moralities of the system make this strikingly obvious? There is no seperation between religion and state, as long as we believe that justice and freedom are real. These are the unfounded absolutes of secularism.

Let us discard the absolute notion of the "perfect", "just", or "free" system. Since we have to make sense of this together, the system is by nature of the individual, corrupt: freedom for one, is tyranny for another.

There is no real justice, it is only an ideal.

Quote:

"Man is born free, and is everywhere in chains"
- Jean-Jacques Rousseau




Lets work from here...

Edited by daytripper23 (01/09/09 01:58 PM)

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: How can people trust their government? [Re: daytripper23]
    #9577172 - 01/09/09 02:04 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

"There is no real justice, it is only an ideal. "

What is an ideal?

"Lets work from here..."

Lets work from here.

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