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OfflineDoctor_Who
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Doctor_Who's Easy No PC WBS Tek
    #9569454 - 01/08/09 09:49 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Hello, all! Ive been lurking this site for years, and the information Ive gotten has been instrumental to teaching my friends how to grow the magic fungus. I decided to give back to the community by doing a write-up of the method my friends use. (Because, as you know, I would never do something like grow mushrooms.)

Because this is a public website, I wont post any pictures - sorry! Its taking enough of a risk for my friends just to do this write-up.

This tek is unique, I think, because it puts medium-scale technology in the hands of absolute beginners, and does not require a pressure cooker. Everything you need can be bought at Wally World or a similar big-box store.

YOU WILL NEED:
Two bags of cheap wild bird seed. You can get away with one.
Optional: A bag of brown rice (My friends use it anyway.)
Twelve ONE PINT WIDE MOUTH Mason jars with lids.
A pot big enough to hold at least two jars, with a lid that fits it.
A roll of aluminum foil.
A mixing bowl.
A big plastic spoon.
A spore syringe, spore print, or live culture (obviously.)
A colander, strainer, or some other vessel with holes poked in it.
Distilled water. A gallon should be just fine.
A plastic container with clear lid.
A bag of vermiculite, and
A bag of perlite.

WHAT YOU DO:
(Some of you may recoil in horror at my technique, but trust me - the contamination rate with this technique is around one jar in every 24. If youd like this to be less, then by all means, go all out with a glovebox and pressure cooker and all that, but you really dont need to given how cheap the WBS is anyway. Remember, shrooms grow outside!)

Wash out your twelve pint jars, and be sure theyre the wide mouth variety (the opening should be as wide or wider than the rest of the jar.) In your big mixing bowl, bucket, or whatever, dump in a bag of wild bird seed and throw in about 1 1/2 - 2 cups whole grain brown rice (optional. My friend had this on hand from her PF tek days and cant bear to waste it.) Mix together well by hand, and fill each of your jars half full with the dry mix of rice and bird seed. If you dont have rice, dont sweat it one bit.

Take any of the dry mix that you have left over and dump it in a Ziploc bag and store it in the freezer, where it should last indefinitely.

Dump all of the substrate into a colander and rinse with cold tap water for five minutes or so. Then dump it back into a pot or your mixing bowl, add water until its covered, and leave it somewhere for 12 to 24 hours.

After the waiting time, rinse the mixture in your colander again until the rinse water runs clear. The water probably looks reddish at this point, just rinse until the water is clear. Then dump the stuff into your pot and add distilled water until the mix is covered. Bring it up to a simmer and stir it very often, simmering for anywhere between ten minutes and a half hour. If you want to skim off anything thats floating, you can, but leaving it in doesnt really make a bit of difference. My friend has tried it both ways with good results.

After your simmer, rinse again for good measure, again until the water runs clear. The simmer is mostly to help get the water into the birdseed, not to sterilize the mix, although it seems to help delay growth of nasty stuff in the short time the jars are sitting around to be sterilized in case youre the forgetful type.

Let the mix sit in the colander in your sink for about half an hour, just to be sure all the water drains out. Then just scoop your substrate out of the colander and into your jars, making sure theyre all about a half full (this is why you measured with the jars earlier, remember?)

WIPE THE THREADS ON THE JAR CLEAN WITH A PAPER TOWEL. You dont want any substrate there, as contaminants from outside the jar can grow through it and screw up all your work later. Put a square of aluminum foil on top of the jar, folding the edges down around the threads. Place the lid that came with the jar on top of the foil, upside down (the red sealing ring should be facing up, and the lettering on the lid should face the foil. The side facing up should probably be the white side if you bought your jars from Wal-Mart. This step keeps the jar from sealing itself after its sterilized, you dont want that.)

Put the lid ring over the lid/foil, and screw it down until it stops. Then unscrew it about a quarter turn, to give the steam somewhere to escape when you cook the jar.

Once you have all your jars set up this way, take your pot and wash it out with soap and water. Pull off enough aluminum foil to cover the top of the pot twice over, and fold it in half. Cram/set the foil in the bottom of the pot, but dont pack it down - it separates the glass jars from the bottom of the pot and keeps them from cracking and screwing up your whole program.

Take as many jars as you can fit into the pot and stand them straight up on the bottom. Check to make sure the lid still fits on the pot - I recommend a clear lid so you can watch the water levels. Add enough water to reach over the level of the substrate in the jars, but not so much that boiling water can get into the jars because the lids are loosened. Youll have to use trial and error on this one. Fit the lid on the pot and set it on your stove.

Turn your stove on HIGH until the water starts boiling well, then turn it back to MEDIUM or MEDIUM HIGH so its still boiling, but not so hard. Once you turn the heat back start your timer or check your watch. Youll want to keep the jars at a boil for at least one hour. When, not if, you run out of water, either add boiling water from another pot or SLOWLY pour in the HOTTEST water you can get from your tap. Slow and hot, I say, to reduce the chance youll crack a jar from a sudden temperature change. My friends learned this the hard way.

After an hour, turn your stove off and leave the lid on the pot. Wait fifteen to thirty minutes to allow the jars to cool down a bit, then pull them out one at a time with a clean oven mitt or clean towel and turn the lids down tight. No need to be Rambo about it, just tight like a jelly jar would be. Immediately place the (still very hot) jar in a clean cardboard box or other clean container, and start on your next batch of jars, depending on how many you made and how many your pot can hold. My friends pot only holds two at a time, so she usually has to mix up only four to six jars per day. You really dont want the wet, unsterilized substrate to be sitting in those jars for longer than, eh, twelve hours MAXIMUM.

Once youve boiled all of your jars for an hour, number each jar and write the date on top with a Sharpie, leaving plenty of room to write other stuff below. It helps to write a numeral 1 on the jar to show its been boiled once.

After 24 hours from the first boil, do the same thing for another hour. Dont forget to unscrew the lid one quarter turn first to let any steam out, and be sure to screw it back after they have time to cool!

What youre trying to do is avoid having to pressure-cook the jars. This process is known as Tyndallization (sp?) or fractional sterilization - there are bacterial endospores that are very resistant to heat, and they hang out in wild bird seed. The 24 hour waiting period is to give them time to germinate in the jar, after which youll boil the hell out of them yet again. Wait 24 hours, again, and do a third and final boil. This should kill damn near everything in the jar.

After your third boil, wait another 24 hours, then inoculate the jars. If youre using a spore syringe or liquid mycelium in a syringe, do the following:
Shake your syringe VERY WELL to ensure the spore clumps are mostly broken up. Leaving the needle guard on, set the syringe on your counter, and grab a jar.
Loosen the band holding the lid on, take it off, and CAREFULLY, SLOWLY lift up JUST THE LID on the jar, exposing the aluminum foil. If you see any obvious holes, tears or breaks in the foil, remove it completely and replace it with new foil, being sure to triple-boil the jar again before using.
Take two paper towels and a bottle of rubbing alcohol. Fold both paper towels in half several times until theyve got several layers and are easier to handle. Soak both of them in the alcohol and set one on top of the foil on the jar, lightly.
Remove the needle guard from your syringe and use a lighter to heat the tip of the needle (about the last inch or so) until you can see it glow red. The hottest part of the flame is actually the space right above the tip of the flame, IIRC. IMMEDIATELY put down the lighter as youre picking up the other alcohol-soaked paper towel, which you should IMMEDIATELY wrap around the entire length of the needle (it should hiss as the alcohol boils off and cools the needle.) Keep this towel around the needle until ready to use.

With the paper towel on top of the foil, pick a spot about 3/4" away from the edge of the jar and wipe it several times GENTLY with the alcohol. Leave the wet paper towel covering this spot.

In one motion (it takes practice) bring the syringe and paper towel right next to the jar, pull off the paper towels at the same time, stick just the tip of the needle into the jar, and inject about 1.5-2 cc/ml of spore solution. As you pull out the needle, immediately place the paper towel on top of the hole and leave it there. Cap your syringe back and make sure its back in a plastic bag in the fridge. Now, use the second paper towel to wipe the underside of the jar lid (the side with the writing on it, the one facing down earlier) and put it on top of the jar with the paper towel between the lid and the foil. Pull out the paper towel as you let the lid fall in place. Immediately put the band on the jar and screw it down. Then, just put your jar in a warm, dark, dry place - you can heat it to 86 degrees or so, but wrapped in a bath towel on a top shelf or on top of the water heater works just fine. Itll just colonize a bit slower.

After 10-14 days, check the jars. You should notice strong, healthy white growth now. The reason we only filled the jars half full is so they could be shaken - do that now. Shake that jar up good! In my friends experience it speeds up the colonization and makes the mycelium more robust.

Check again in a week or two. When the jar is completely full of the white mycelium and seems to be growing pins (little tiny black spots) its time to open the jars.

Add distilled water to above the level of the substrate in the jar - hell, fill it to the top if you want to. This is the dunking step, and makes the cake absorb water for more fruiting. Remember, it was using water the whole time it was growing. Stick the jars in the fridge for about 24 hours. When you pull them out, have a clear container with a lid ready for each jar. Just put about 3/4" of vermiculite on the bottom and mist it with distilled water, break up the colonized substrate into big chunks, and lay those chunks on the vermiculite. Then cover the chunks on the top and sides, misting again. My friend gets best results with 1/4 to 1/2" vermiculite on top. Place the containers underneath a light and wait for a few days, being sure to remove the container lid and "fan" the air out at least once a day.

When you see patches of mycelium growing through, put enough wet vermiculite on them to cover them. Youre looking for pins to start forming, and you ideally want the whole cake to pin at once instead of a patch here and there.

When pins form, just keep fanning the air daily. Dont bother misting daily, maybe every second or third day. The vermiculite should be moist but never soaking wet. After pins develop into shrooms, the perfect time to pick them is right when the veil breaks (the thin membrane connecting the cap with the stalk.) Eat them fresh or dry them, just always remember to WEIGH EVERY SINGLE DOSE ON AN ACCURATE SCALE! Mushrooms are like any drug. If you cant take the time to know the dose youre taking, then you dont have the time to be taking the dose.

Enjoy, and post any questions you might have below.


--------------------
From the mushroom comes great wisdom destined for great minds.

My activity on this site is a part of absolutely nothing. I don't actually exist, and if I did I'd be too high on weed and oxygen to give a goddamn.


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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: Doctor_Who's Easy No PC WBS Tek [Re: Doctor_Who]
    #9569486 - 01/08/09 10:00 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

fractional sterilization... incubating at 86 degrees...
Man, I have a feeling that this thread is going to go south pretty quickly.
Kudos for all the work you put into the write-up and good to hear that this works for you, but...

/me *puts on asbestos suit*


--------------------
"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".


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Re: Doctor_Who's Easy No PC WBS Tek [Re: German Kahuna]
    #9569604 - 01/08/09 10:38 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

i also didnt see any holes in tour lids
how do you plan on getting GE?
i have done fractional sterilization once
out of 12 jars only 2 survived
nice write up tho,looks like you took some tine on it:congrats:

  -noobie-


--------------------
AMU

Best Thread Ever
CapZilla said:
not sure what GE and FAE are but i should probably get some.

Citric said:
Your signature is wrong on colonization temps!

GOOD JUDGMENT COMES FROM EXPERIENCE
EXPERIENCE COMES FROM BAD JUDGMENT

ROOM TEMP 70-75 IS BEST FOR COLONIZATION
Thank you mycochef


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Re: Doctor_Who's Easy No PC WBS Tek [Re: noobieshroomie]
    #9569630 - 01/08/09 10:48 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Even if this does work, look how much time and effort is wasted by repeating such a time consuming process.  I hate the time it takes to pc jars as, let alone if I had to repeat the process three times and on multiple batches.


--------------------
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OfflineDoctor_Who
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Re: Doctor_Who's Easy No PC WBS Tek [Re: arp180]
    #9569721 - 01/08/09 11:12 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I'll agree, it's not the best way. It is a pretty lazy way. My friend doesn't own a pressure cooker although she's been pressured (ha!) into buying one (mostly by me, because I keep pointing out the same stuff you did.)

Gas exchange gets to be a major problem near the end, adding anywhere from days to a week to colonization time. I think the airspace in the jars helps, but in the future and at my suggestion, she's going to try a system I developed with an oxygen regulator set at the lowest setting, filtered with a micropore and split with an aquarium airline splitter, and delivered into each jar via autoclaved aquarium tubing. Assuming I've ever grown these on my own, which of course I haven't... but if I did, I used my grandma's ancient pressure cooker and a D-cylinder tank of medical oxygen with a similar setup because I like both the gas exchange and knowing that each jar has a positive pressure gradient that keeps things from getting in except through the hose. This hypothetical grow was hypothetically GORGEOUS and very kind to me after it was all said and done.

She's pretty lazy, and more than a bit lucky. I don't know how to explain the low contamination rates, because I've seen her do the process - she's either lucky or a liar, and I'm leaning toward the former. I can't argue with the results, though, especially 'cause they're free :-D


--------------------
From the mushroom comes great wisdom destined for great minds.

My activity on this site is a part of absolutely nothing. I don't actually exist, and if I did I'd be too high on weed and oxygen to give a goddamn.


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Re: Doctor_Who's Easy No PC WBS Tek [Re: Doctor_Who]
    #9569745 - 01/08/09 11:20 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, all you need for GE is a small hole in the lid covered with micro-pore tape, tyvek, or polyfill.


--------------------
"Given the choice between the experience of pain and nothing, I would choose pain."  William Faulkner

"That which exists without my knowledge exists without my consent."
-A quote from the Judge in the novel Blood Meridian; or the Evening Redness in the West by Cormac McCarthy

"Let there be light" My Quick Reference Guide to Lighting
My AutoMono (11oz First Flush)
My Monster Mushroom Mono (9.3oz First Flush)



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OfflinePsychOfMSE
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Re: Doctor_Who's Easy No PC WBS Tek [Re: arp180]
    #9570117 - 01/08/09 12:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I would never do a WBS grow without using a PC, especially in this dingy, dirty, moldy house.

It may work for you (or your friends) but I would never suggest this tek to anyone.  Props for the writeup but there's too much misinformation in there.

Good luck.


--------------------
"I think it's impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves." - Orson Scott Card

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Re: Doctor_Who's Easy No PC WBS Tek [Re: PsychOfMSE]
    #9570148 - 01/08/09 01:02 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I have heard from many posts that fractional sterilization does not work. Can anyone explain why?

I'm guessing there are certain endospores that can only be killed with pressure and heat, and steam cannot heat the core of a WBS kernal.


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Re: Doctor_Who's Easy No PC WBS Tek [Re: Green_T]
    #9570284 - 01/08/09 01:25 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

No one use this method and this should be deleted because people are going to find it, thinking it works, then ask what went wrong because they tried it.  This thing is like the oven teks long lost brother.  Anyone who contributes help here knows how fucking annoying seeing oven TEK questions come up is.  The advice in here is just garbage.  Let's see some proof that this method works, like maybe a picture of a mushroom?


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Re: Doctor_Who's Easy No PC WBS Tek [Re: Green_T]
    #9570348 - 01/08/09 01:35 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

green_titan said:
I have heard from many posts that fractional sterilization does not work. Can anyone explain why?

I'm guessing there are certain endospores that can only be killed with pressure and heat, and steam cannot heat the core of a WBS kernal.




Quoting RR:

What we sterilize for is bacterial endospores, which can be really tough to kill. Many begin to form new endospores within hours of germination, so if you go too long between boilings, you're screwed.


Why would you want to spend 3 days sterilizing jars (using fractional sterilization) instead of spending 40 bucks and getting a PC.

Sounds like waaaay too much work for me.

Quote:

Elixier said:
No one use this method and this should be deleted because people are going to find it, thinking it works, then ask what went wrong because they tried it.  This thing is like the oven teks long lost brother.  Anyone who contributes help here knows how fucking annoying seeing oven TEK questions come up is.  The advice in here is just garbage.  Let's see some proof that this method works, like maybe a picture of a mushroom?




I'm sure this method works, just not reliably.  Hell you could use absolutely no sterile procedure and get away with it, but it's not going to work 100% of the time every time.  I'd rather not deal with half my jars being contaminated and having to dump them and re-stock.


--------------------
"I think it's impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves." - Orson Scott Card

Agar's Grain LC Tek <--- Never fool with honey water and contaminated LCs again!
Large_Dose's Ohmatic Monotub Tek
Monstermitch's LC/WBS/Monotub/Casing Tek


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OfflineDoctor_Who
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My Way [Re: Doctor_Who]
    #9571775 - 01/08/09 05:53 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

(Note: I don't say "my friend" only as a disclaimer - I really mean a friend of mine. If I ever grew, which of course I didn't, I would have taken a lot more time and done it right because I hate failure and I already have a ton of tools and materials on hand.)

I called her and asked her if I could take a picture of ALL the jars as the process is finishing. She's being a total flake about it but I think she's going to cave in eventually. The last time I came over to visit all of the jars she made this way were showing strong growth. If I ever grow again, I'll just gank my grandma's old pressure cooker and use the Tyvek from some Priority Mail envelopes instead of the aluminum foil and lid combination. I love the concept of using a simple Tyvek seal, and unlike some people I'm not afraid a pressure cooker will explode and kill me. Remember, this is how my friend does it, mostly because I wanted to see how little work she could put in and still get a harvest, but also because she's scared of a PC because one blew up on her mom when she was like six and it scarred her for life.

When I may have rhetorically done it before, my setup would have been identical except that my jars were pressure cooked for 90 minutes at a solid boil (it's a very old pressure cooker circa 1960's and most likely unsafe. The weight on top of it says "MAXIMUM PRESSURE 15-20 PSI" but I don't want to tap it for gauge threads so my grandmother doesn't know I'm using it, thus I don't know the pressure). My lids also had two 1/4" holes drilled in the center with about a half inch of aquarium tubing pushed through one hole in the lid and foil, sealed on both sides of the lid itself with JB Weld (great stuff!) and about six inches protruding from the top, sealed with a little wad of polyfill batting. I pumped a chunk of clear silicone bathtub caulk in the other hole for an injection port and let the sealants cure for about two days before I put the jars in the PC. I coiled more tubing inside an empty jar with some male-male barbed fittings, two air blocks, and a T adapter, and I PC'ed that along with it. When the whole deal was done, I hooked it up to a medical gas regulator and oxygen tank that belonged to my grandmother, set it to 1 L/min, and divided the flow into eight jars with the two 4-way aquarium air blocks and the T adapter. As long as the jars are open 1/4 turn and the lines are pinched off with clamps while you shake the jars, the positive pressure and pure oxygen keeps contams out of the jar and the mycelium stays oxygenated. Plus, it looks cool.

Seeing as I can't get her to make a liquid culture no matter how easy I tell her it is, I'm shortly about to take it on myself to do just that, the proper way. My method is pretty much just a combination of the best teks I've found, but I want to write it up with pictures of the legal parts because it'll be my first LC and I'm stoked about it.

I was just at a doctor's office and managed to gank two biopsy punches and three no. 15 scalpel blades, all in sterile packaging. The biopsy punches will be awesome for taking a sample from an agar plate or a colonized jar, and I have two in case I fuck up. I know a great lab supply store to buy agar agar and petri dishes on the cheap.

Thanks to everyone for the constructive criticism - I couldn't help feeling like I'd jumped the gun on the first post but since the method I wrote about works for at least one person (with a relatively clean house, mind you) I figured it would be worth reading about. The lack of gas exchange bothers me but she doesn't seem to give a damn as long as she ends up with a personal stash of 'shrooms with a few to give out to friends like yours truly.

Oh, and regarding a pressure cooker - the laws governing steam pressure of water state that water can be heated over 212 degrees Fahrenheit if it's pressurized. I think 15 PSI gets you a maximum water/steam temperature of around 250 degrees F. As long as your WBS is in boiling water long enough, simple conductive transfer will ensure that any heat on the outside of an individual grain will spread to the inside of the grain. An hour on each boil seems to do the trick, provided the jars are shaken HARD between boils and they're not allowed to sit any more than 24 hours between boils, lest the bacteria form brand new endospores and screw up our program like someone above me pointed out.

If I do this in the future for myself, which of course I won't, I'll borrow my grandma's trusty old stove bomb and do it the right way


--------------------
From the mushroom comes great wisdom destined for great minds.

My activity on this site is a part of absolutely nothing. I don't actually exist, and if I did I'd be too high on weed and oxygen to give a goddamn.


Edited by Doctor_Who (01/08/09 06:13 PM)


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Re: My Way [Re: Doctor_Who]
    #9571788 - 01/08/09 05:56 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Recently I made around 80 jars and lost 3.  What sort of numbers is she getting?


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Re: My Way [Re: Elixier]
    #9571890 - 01/08/09 06:17 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

She's on her second batch of 24, she's a newbie. In my time I made 60 jars total, spread out over four months. She's lost one jar to pink slime and one jar to something that looked a hell of a lot like Aspergillus niger. She wanted to scrape off the affected areas and fruit them IN THE SAME CONTAINER WITH THE REST. I gave her ten dollars to throw them out jars and all. I just don't think she grasps sterile technique.

In my time, I lost three jars of 60, all to black mold that I figure I got from being lazy and not sterilizing the needle between jars. Those were in my first batch of twelve and I never made that mistake again.


--------------------
From the mushroom comes great wisdom destined for great minds.

My activity on this site is a part of absolutely nothing. I don't actually exist, and if I did I'd be too high on weed and oxygen to give a goddamn.


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