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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
My question for all you mystically or magically inclined...
    #9555523 - 01/06/09 01:50 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

If spirits, vibes, energy, and magic all exist in some form or another, then why hasn't one wise soul in our excruciatingly long history figured out a way to gain immortality yet?

...or are those selfish bastards just keeping it to themselves?

......or did Jesus and other supposed immortal avatars already fuck up the celestial paradigm for us?

:tinfoil:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #9555647 - 01/06/09 02:34 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
If spirits, vibes, energy, and magic all exist in some form or another, then why hasn't one wise soul in our excruciatingly long history figured out a way to gain immortality yet?



Huh?  I don't follow.  You seem to be asking how, if something exists, why such an ability does not extend to omnipotence.  Your question, it seems to me, is equivalent to asking how, if people can jump, why they can't fly.  Why must magic be limitless in order to be real?  I see people fall into this fallacy regarding psychic phenomena as well.  There has been some research which supports the hypothesis that people experience a slight psi effect(some more than others), but debunkers challenge it based on the assumption that if people were really psychic they should be able to win the lottery every time.  If such things are real, we must recognize that they must have their limits just like everything else we observe.


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Offlineivander
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: Silversoul]
    #9555879 - 01/06/09 03:43 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

man... even if someone was able to achieve immortality, he would definitely be selfish enough to not share it's secret with anyone... imagine your self become immortal... would you go around and brag about...
anyway, even if immortality is possible, i think it is pointless, at least in this human world...


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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.


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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: deCypher]
    #9555886 - 01/06/09 03:45 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

You can be immortal, just not here.


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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: deCypher]
    #9556364 - 01/06/09 07:28 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
If spirits, vibes, energy, and magic all exist in some form or another, then why hasn't one wise soul in our excruciatingly long history figured out a way to gain immortality yet?

...or are those selfish bastards just keeping it to themselves?

......or did Jesus and other supposed immortal avatars already fuck up the celestial paradigm for us?

:tinfoil:



The spirit is immortal.
You are ... immortal.
The body is a vehicle.. and there is a time when it can no longer be of service , but our consciousness remains.
You used Jesus for example , and he was not immortal in the sense i feel you have understood.
He was a late 5th density wanderer .. that incarnated on this planet to spread his message. He penetrated the forgetting process at a very young age and proceeded to regain his abilities as a "lightworker" . This is why he could heal for example.
On this planetary sphere.. once the spirit is incarnate in a "new" body/vehicle it feels as if this were the only life it ever had. This is why it is somewhat helpful to penetrate the forgetting process. But not always.
All depends what tasks or lessons you/your higher self has arranged for this incarnation.
In the bigger picture.. in densities higher than our current one .. life is elongated , and forgetting does not happen with new incarnations unless they are to be on a planetary sphere of 3rd density.
On the other hand.. there are beings that have genetically modified themselves to be physically immortal as well.
But that is a different story i dont know too much about.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


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Offlineeve69
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: deCypher]
    #9556432 - 01/06/09 08:00 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
If spirits, vibes, energy, and magic all exist in some form or another, then why hasn't one wise soul in our excruciatingly long history figured out a way to gain immortality yet?

...or are those selfish bastards just keeping it to themselves?

......or did Jesus and other supposed immortal avatars already fuck up the celestial paradigm for us?

:tinfoil:




Paul Bocuse is unlikely to take on trainees from McDonald's.


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...or something







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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: eve69]
    #9556454 - 01/06/09 08:08 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Huh?  I don't follow.  You seem to be asking how, if something exists, why such an ability does not extend to omnipotence.  Your question, it seems to me, is equivalent to asking how, if people can jump, why they can't fly.  Why must magic be limitless in order to be real?  I see people fall into this fallacy regarding psychic phenomena as well.  There has been some research which supports the hypothesis that people experience a slight psi effect(some more than others), but debunkers challenge it based on the assumption that if people were really psychic they should be able to win the lottery every time.  If such things are real, we must recognize that they must have their limits just like everything else we observe.




But this implies either that magical/psychic pursuits are inherently a stagnant field and that no further innovation is possible, or that humans simply haven't pressed the boundaries far enough yet.  Why is science seemingly unlimited while mysticism is not, particularly when the latter carries far more untapped potential?  Besides, immortality is a far cry from omnipotence... even a modest extension of lifetime through spiritual means would be a bonus.

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
You can be immortal, just not here.




That rather defeats the point of immortality, don't you think?

Quote:

eve69 said:
Paul Bocuse is unlikely to take on trainees from McDonald's.




How best to go about persuading Bocuse then?  Does one cook up a simmering fillet mignon and hope to attract some attention?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


Edited by deCypher (01/06/09 08:34 AM)


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: deCypher]
    #9556794 - 01/06/09 09:45 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

From what I've learned about the immortality of the soul or entity, physically immortality would be truely hell. Although using the world "immortality" is tricky, because you never really die. In physical terms, your vehicle or body dies, yet your consciousness is actually expanded after death. One lifetime is more than enough of a learning experience for me.

The astral realm is where consciousness is transferred to after death. I recommend this exploration, for it can only be proved from subjective experience.


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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #9556926 - 01/06/09 10:14 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

Why is science seemingly unlimited while mysticism is not?


Mysticism has no limits. That's what's wrong with man and its spawn, science, man's need to place limitation has spread to a field that should not be limited or controlled. Mysticism has been around since the dawn of man, science has not and will not be around forever.


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Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND



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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #9556929 - 01/06/09 10:15 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Jack Albertson said: Mysticism has been around since the dawn of man, science has not and will not be around forever.




I prefer to think that the two will blend into something utterly spectacular.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: deCypher]
    #9556954 - 01/06/09 10:21 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

Me too, but i also believe that it will have deeper roots in mysticism and spirituality with scientific annotations.
like a 60/40 blend.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND



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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: deCypher]
    #9556972 - 01/06/09 10:24 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
You can be immortal, just not here.




That rather defeats the point of immortality, don't you think?





Actually, I disagree completely. :shrug:

You're choosing to define immortality as infinite time on this plane. To me, it seems like the "on this plane" part is an unnecessary restriction you're placing based on your own beliefs regarding the possibility of post-departure consciousness.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #9556992 - 01/06/09 10:28 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

Perhaps, but it seems like most views of post-departure consciousness involve a loss of that crucial individuality that makes 'me' me.  Naturally, this is rather undesirable (of course, this is also my ego talking in a frantic bid against its inevitable demise).

Besides, I can't wholly dismiss the strong correlation between physical neural substrate and subjective personality/awareness.  Any form of consciousness that goes on after the destruction of my brain would be so vastly different from my current, neurologically driven one that I feel no point in pursuing it.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: deCypher]
    #9557040 - 01/06/09 10:40 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

Firstly, just because one realizes they are the ego does not mean that they cannot expand their awareness. The ego is a funny thing, because it believes it is "it" and yet when it goes away, "you" are still there being a "bigger it" because the ego was actually a sub-section mistaking itself for the whole. This doesn't change the fact that you are actually the whole just as much as you are the mistaken sub-portion. Realizing this is the key to transcension of ego-fear and leads to a state of being that can accept the concept of after-death consciousness.

The key is to realize that you are inherently consciousness, and not the definitions that make up the ego.

The key being that YOU are inherently consciousness. You are not the ego. Believing you are is false identification with a sub-sect of the whole, which is your true nature. (pure consciousness.)

-

Second, the non-physical neural net is very similar, because the physical neural net is based upon the exact same patterning. It's just nature, either way.

Physicality is like a 'condensation' of the spiritual realm, which is like a "field of potential" out of which physical reality is deduced and decided through our interaction with the field of intent on a higher level. (Of which we are not always aware.)

-

Time is not really linear, we just perceive it to be. What happens "after" death does not come linearly "after death." Instead, it's more something that has always existed and will always exist. We simply return to this less tangible state of consciousness that has no physical evidence.

(All of the above is just my opinion, based on my subjective inner experiences.)


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Offlinesolarshroomster
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #28372479 - 06/24/23 09:46 AM (7 months, 22 hours ago)

I am bumping this old thread as a necromancer, because I find the discussion to be so incredible.

My thoughts here:

We live in a limited bubble, but beyond that, subjective direct experience, can point to something much larger: the Self / ego is a creation of the mind, and while the ego can dissolve in death, consciousness is always eternal!


--------------------
Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: solarshroomster]
    #28372782 - 06/24/23 01:45 PM (7 months, 18 hours ago)

Observation of the law of impermanence would seem to indicate otherwise.   


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #28377210 - 06/27/23 11:34 PM (6 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
then why hasn't one wise soul in our excruciatingly long history figured out a way to gain immortality yet?





I read a story that goes the Egyptian Pharoah Seti astral projected and then realized he could live there after death, others in recent years have said they have met Seti on the astral plane, who knows!


I think the philosophical question is, if you could gain immortality would you want to have it?  What if you had to see people you love die over the years?  Eventually you might not want to be immortal!


--------------------
©️


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: Lucis]
    #28377233 - 06/28/23 12:17 AM (6 months, 28 days ago)

The netherworld is perceivable through the five, normal senses and capable of being described in mortal, human terms (or occasionally patois.)

Quote:

What if you had to see people you love die over the years?




People who I did not actually love were just as belated to see me, as I was to see them.

Fixtures were adequate, even perfect, except usually made of common materials.


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OfflinePainkiller
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: deCypher]
    #28380437 - 06/30/23 05:19 PM (6 months, 25 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
If spirits, vibes, energy, and magic all exist in some form or another, then why hasn't one wise soul in our excruciatingly long history figured out a way to gain immortality yet?

...or are those selfish bastards just keeping it to themselves?

......or did Jesus and other supposed immortal avatars already fuck up the celestial paradigm for us?

:tinfoil:



We're already spiritually immortal. I think to be biologically immortal should be the easiest thing to do. Just know that it's possible and choose it.

With all certainty, if one is experiencing Ultimate Reality (nirvāṇa), one would feel many times better, more alive and never pass away. Ultimate Reality can easily be experienced on classic psychedelics. Other ways of experiencing Ultimate Reality include breathwork, meditation and potentially through reiki and hypnotherapy as well.


Edited by Painkiller (07/03/23 06:25 PM)


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Invisibleconnectedcosmos
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28380566 - 06/30/23 07:22 PM (6 months, 25 days ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Observation of the law of impermanence would seem to indicate otherwise.   






How does one know of impermanence though? Wouldn't you need something permanent to ,  compare it to? Or so to say be the background to the foreground? The instanding to the outstanding? That would be what you really are the unchanged observer watching all change? That's just how I see impermanence personally :awesomenod:


--------------------


54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


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Offlinesolarshroomster
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: connectedcosmos] * 1
    #28381269 - 07/01/23 10:36 AM (6 months, 24 days ago)

I feel similarly to connectedcosmos.

There’s another thread on here if the Self is an illusion. Some say so, others say not.

In my opinion, the Self as Mind is the only thing we can know for sure exists. It is the perceiver to the perception.

Then what are we to make out of ego death? While our identity of who we think we are as people can go, our identity as Mind / Self always remains. So, in regard to the law of impermanence, although our ego is constantly changing every second continuously, “the background”, as connectedcosmos puts it, always remains the same. In fact, if there weren’t a background of sameness to the changing, the changes would be cut off from each other and you couldn’t even be able to compare them to one another. What you refer to as permanently different through impermanence, I refer to as different only within a continuum of unity.

So, there’s impermanence to the ego, but it’s all ultimate variations of the same essence, in my opinion.

To be clear, this is just what makes sense to me personally.


--------------------
Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: solarshroomster]
    #28381380 - 07/01/23 12:40 PM (6 months, 24 days ago)

I am a fatalist who believes pre-formation and in permanence.


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OfflineBeluga
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: deCypher]
    #28382578 - 07/02/23 12:46 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)

They did.  We are all immortal consciousness, part of God, incarnating in avatar to have experiences.  After death the veil and limitations are removed and we merge back and expand into God again, until we get bored and feel the need to create and experience again.  This world isnt real, just a construct in the mind of God so that God can play games and interact with itself.  Immortality in the “physical” world doesn’t exist because that’s not the point.  Would you want to achieve immortality in a video game?  With no way to escape?  Of course not.  After a while you would go absolutely mad from boredom.  This game is no different.


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OfflineBeluga
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: solarshroomster]
    #28382620 - 07/02/23 01:06 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)

Ego death is somewhat of a misnomer.  People who experience the removal of the veil and discover the illusory and temporary nature of their avatar can experience it as a death of all they are, if they are too heavily materialistic and too overly invested in their avatar.  If you think you are your titles, hobbies, or accomplishments, then it will seem like dying when those things are peeled away and you see that they are just temporary vehicles for various experiences.    Your true self however, which is God, is far more than those things.  And you as God most certainly have an ego.  God’s ego compels him to create, differentiate, and experience.  God’s ego want’s to love, hate, struggle, triumph, form relationships, have sex, and enjoy a nice pretty sunset that he creates for himself. 

Imagine you have lived a lifetime in a VR video game.  You have taken it very seriously, forming relationships with other players, struggling to achieve things in the game world, overcoming your player’s obstacles and limitations, ect.    Suddenly your headset that you have worn your entire life is  removed and you find yourself existing outside of the game world.  Your real self is far more than the avatar in the game, but you were so immersed in it that it feels like death to remove the headset and go for a walk outside.  This is sort of what ego death is.  It is not a reduction or elimination of consciousness, desire, or will.    It is the elimination of a small, differentiated, temporary manifestation that you have been immersed in, releasing you to the greater and limitless mind which you really are.    It can be good to realize that this place is just a projection of mind, but in my opinion too much emphasis is placed on getting rid of the ego.    The ego is an essential part of consciousness.  It is the eternal “I am that I am.”  It is ok to immerse yourself fully in your material avatar.  That is what we are here to do.  If you are struggling though with it, it can be helpful to take some high dose psychedelics to help you realize that your avatar and its world is illusory and temporary, and that it will all be ok when you wake up from the dream.  Try and get some value or joy out of the game while you are here though.  It will make this experience and the next one you choose more valuable.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: My question for all you mystically or magically inclined... [Re: Beluga]
    #28382627 - 07/02/23 01:12 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)



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