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OfflineKemist
Soul ComponentsPrototype IssueM11983MF50 (x_x)

Registered: 05/29/02
Posts: 160
Loc: The Orgin
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Education
    #954840 - 10/12/02 12:41 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Experts agree -- American education is going downhill fast. Test scores are plummeting, kids graduate from high school without the math skills to balance their checkbooks, even supposedly well-educated adults don't seem to have the general knowledge that was once expected of them. But who cares? We don't really want better education in America.

Want evidence? Look at your local news media. What type of school activities get positive notice? Anti-drug, anti-sex, and anti-gang campaigns top the list. But is it education? Education means giving kids facts, and the logic skills needed to think for themselves, using those facts. What would happen if the schools gave kids drug education? The kids would learn the about the scientific evidence on the effects of legal and illegal drugs, and make up their own minds based on the evidence. We can't have that! Because, given the fact that alcohol is physically addicting and can cause death by alcohol poisoning, and marijuana is not physically addicting and can't cause death by overdose, many kids would come to the logical conclusion that using marijuana is safer than alcohol, and therefore if one of the two drugs should be outlawed, it ought to be alcohol. And since kids are the political power of the future, someday the little weed-puffing monsters could legalize their joints and outlaw Daddy's booze, just because of some dumb scientific evidence! Unthinkable!

The whole point of the anti-drug, anti-sex, and other campaigns in the schools isn't to teach kids facts or independent thought. It's to change their behavior -- in other words, it's propaganda, although teachers are carefully trained to use the term 'behavioral goals' rather than 'propagandistic brainwashing' -- sounds nicer that way. And if meeting those behavioral goals means telling kids lies, fine! If it means using meaningless propaganda slogans ("This is drugs. This is your brain on drugs..."), fine. And since teaching kids the basics of logical thinking might help them see through the lies and the slogans, well, logical thinking will just have to be consigned to the scrapheap, won't it?

And what about parental involvement? Sometimes parents do get up in arms about the problems in schools, and try to do something about it, right? But what is it that parents get up in arms about? Ever hear of a bunch of parents storming a school board meeting, demanding to know why their fourth graders don't even know who Charlemagne was? When was the last time you saw parents picketing a high school, demanding that their kids be taught what happened in 1066?

No, that's not what brings parents to the school board meetings or the picket lines. What does? Usually the issue comes down to parental objections to sex ed classes, the teaching of evolution and science, or books in the English class or school library with 'naughty' words in them. "I don't want my kids exposed to that!" the parents cry. In other words, parents are worried that their kids are learning too many facts, not too little. And if the people who spend a lifetime studying the science of educational psychology try to be reassuring, people make comments about 'eggheads'. Scientific expertise is far from a respected commodity in this country. That's why the ultimate authority over America's school is not some individual with a PhD in education, but whoever can get themselves elected to the school board.

Now, if people were to come out and say, 'I don't want the kiddies to do all that thinking in school. Just teach 'em a little survival math & reading, and scare 'em into behaving the way I want 'em to, and that's all they really need," well, that would be fine. At least it would be honest. But when people go around saying they want a first-rate educational system, and then go around acting like learning certain things is the worst fate that can befall a child, they are sending mixed messages. Is it any wonder when a kid, exposed to those messages, opts out of learning and in to drug use, alcoholism, or religious fanaticism?

There's an old saying that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. A first rate, old-fashioned classical education is even more dangerous. If you want America's youth to be educated, you have to be willing to accept all the consequences. And one of those consequences is independent thought -- even independent thought you don't agree with. But if you want the milk of scientific and educational advancement, you gotta step in a few sacred cow chips. (In case you are one of the many victims of American non-education who don't know what happened in 1066, it was the Norman conquest of England. And no, that didn't have anything to do with Norman Bates).



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Rafa (x_X)

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OfflineAmber_Glow
Sat Chit Anand

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 1,543
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Re: Education [Re: Kemist]
    #955090 - 10/12/02 03:22 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Good post.

I agree that schools need to focus not on how to make children conform to ill values, but to educate fairly and unbiased.

Alot of time and money is wasted on the war against drugs. Not just in our schools, but in our government and our police forces. It's time the focus shifts from control to education.


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Invisibledoozer
off the deep end
Registered: 05/15/01
Posts: 93
Re: Education [Re: Kemist]
    #956652 - 10/13/02 11:39 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Nice post.  Yeah its silly the little things that make this country so ass-backward.  However, this country is the best place in the world, but it is far from perfect.  I think the best thing you can do is teach your children what is right but let them know that not all people will agree with what you think is right.  Don't rely on the school system of America to educate your children.  Its truly up to you.  Just do your best, thats all you can do :wink:


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OfflineLOPHO.MP
looker

Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 101
Loc: Santa Cruz CA.
Last seen: 11 years, 2 days
Re: Education [Re: doozer]
    #957230 - 10/13/02 05:10 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)


Sorry Doozer I disagree.
I can think of many places I would rather live than the US.

There are a lot of people in the world who really do not like what the United States government does. Often times this dislike gets spread to the United States people.

On the eve of the US entering Iraq and giving a lot more people reasons to hate the US I am even more convinced that I would rather live some place else.

Besides the small fact that being a US citizen marks you as a target for the hate of many people, I would like to know why you think the US is the best place in the world.

Please elaborate.


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---Still Searching---


Edited by LOPHO.MP (10/13/02 05:12 PM)


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OfflineSheepish
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 10,137
Loc: Exile
Last seen: 1 day, 18 hours
Re: Education [Re: Kemist]
    #957428 - 10/13/02 06:41 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

That's the best post I've read in months. You're spot on.


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OfflineMorgan LeFay
Devil

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 30
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: Education [Re: Kemist]
    #957558 - 10/13/02 07:33 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Great post and I agree. My mom was always floored about what we didn't learn in high school. I mean they teach us what they want us to know and nothing else. Hmmmm.. didn't Hitler do the same thing?!


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"Tell everyone that this show was sponsored by the letter M and the number 4:20"
~Trey Anastasio - Phish


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OfflineArisEve
My Chronic

Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 373
Loc: Use a GPS if ya wanna kno...
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: Education [Re: Kemist]
    #960178 - 10/14/02 06:05 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yup, you may not be able to drive the best on marijuana but I see no concern with driving with someone that is baked... But alcohol is horrific... You really cant do much of anything when your drunk, besides having sloppy sex, puking on yourself, and stumbling/falingl all over the place... It's fun but you have to admit there are just some drugs that should not be illegal... Rolls were legal in Japan for awhile... Many drugs are legal elsewhere... America has this image they want other people to see to make themselves look better. The US makes money on marijuana... If it was legal, they would lose a good sorce of money... I think thats what its all about...


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Simple pleasures in life are only to momentarily distract you from the obviousness of lifes reality...

-ArisEve



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OfflineKemist
Soul ComponentsPrototype IssueM11983MF50 (x_x)

Registered: 05/29/02
Posts: 160
Loc: The Orgin
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Education [Re: ArisEve]
    #960307 - 10/14/02 06:54 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

well im glad someone agrees but sometimes i think thats all education really is sometimes ... brainwashing the young into a system. thank god for non-religious/military colleges

Hitler Youth anyone?


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Rafa (x_X)

fuck a sig




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OfflineArisEve
My Chronic

Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 373
Loc: Use a GPS if ya wanna kno...
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: Education [Re: Kemist]
    #960481 - 10/14/02 07:44 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I base and live my life the way I perceive it not how someone tells me... If someone else has a problem then they can deal with it... Thats just who I am. I dont believe you should teach the young what you think is right and wrong. There are exceptions and limitations but anyone should be able to think for themselves and as an individual you should be able to set your own moral standards for what is right and wrong and there should be no problem with that. However society acts differently upon the youth of the nation...


--------------------
Simple pleasures in life are only to momentarily distract you from the obviousness of lifes reality...

-ArisEve



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Invisibledoozer
off the deep end
Registered: 05/15/01
Posts: 93
Re: Education [Re: LOPHO.MP]
    #961356 - 10/15/02 12:26 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Hi Lopho.  Well I knew I should have put the trusty IMHO in my post but I forgot :confused:  I just think we've got it better here than any other place in the world.  The opportunity to do whatever you want is not so in most of the world, due to other government or their economy or cultural beliefs or even education or the lack thereof.  Yeah, there's a few little silly ass-backward rules here, but for the most part its pretty good here.  Yes there's a few people that don't like us but when you're the best there's always some sort of opposition.  I'm not going to run away from my country just because someone is threatening us.  That wouldn't be very American like.  Again this is only my opinion. 
I don't mean it ugly, but if you're so unhappy with this place you may need to find some place else.  And being a citizen of the U.S. you have the opportunity  to do that.  Good luck to you, I hope you find what you're looking for :smile:


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OfflineDopefiend
newbie
Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 28
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Education [Re: doozer]
    #963898 - 10/15/02 08:33 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

doozer, you're totally right. I've visited/lived in a number of other countries, and I gotta tell you, in terms of public services, education, opportunity, the US seriously cannot be beat. Neither one of my parents is American and no aspect of American culture permeated how I was raised...so I'm saying all of this without any bias whatsoever.

But yeah, the war on drugs is a terrible waste of taxpayer money.


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Offlinejuicemonkey
Stranger
Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 764
Loc: BC
Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
Re: Education [Re: ArisEve]
    #965107 - 10/16/02 04:13 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

It costs money to keep a drug illegal and to try and enforce it. They are LOSING money by keep it illegal(which is so stupid). Same goes for Canada. I live in British Columbia. We are having lots of financial problems. A very good portion of marijuana is grown here...if they were to simply legalize marijuana, i really feel it would help get us out of debt. Same goes for anywhere else. I really think that marijuana should be legal in the states and Canada.

Yeah education is shit i think. They try and teach you, for the most part, what to think, not how to think. That's something we should work on for the future. Teach kids how to think for themselves. Tell the the FACTS.


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I saw my mind do warp 10, hit the brakes, put it in reverse and back all over me


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OfflineArisEve
My Chronic

Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 373
Loc: Use a GPS if ya wanna kno...
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: Education [Re: juicemonkey]
    #965673 - 10/16/02 12:48 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Our government grows marijuana for medical uses. And you know the government keeps all the money they bust from dealers that are caught with both pot and the money they made from it. They destroy the pot, and keep the money..


--------------------
Simple pleasures in life are only to momentarily distract you from the obviousness of lifes reality...

-ArisEve



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OfflineBitchCakes
The captain ofouter space

Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 492
Loc: Sea Attole
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Education [Re: ArisEve]
    #967024 - 10/16/02 09:26 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Dropping out of high school was the best thing I ever did with my life..


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-I'm a dork-


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OfflineArisEve
My Chronic

Registered: 07/09/02
Posts: 373
Loc: Use a GPS if ya wanna kno...
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: Education [Re: BitchCakes]
    #967425 - 10/16/02 11:29 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

uhh alright man. your cool. Not something I'd recommend but yea.


--------------------
Simple pleasures in life are only to momentarily distract you from the obviousness of lifes reality...

-ArisEve



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Offlineesin
cheesefondue
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 1,275
Loc: Lysergia
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Education [Re: Kemist]
    #969208 - 10/17/02 03:14 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

In reply to:

That's the best post I've read in months.




I agree.

I don't live in your country but we have the same problem here. In fact, i think that applies to most countries i know, these days.



Edited by esin (10/17/02 10:59 PM)


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