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 lqdtrance
Hunter
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 2,373
Loc: NY
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 Re: DOC take over  [Re: Plasmid]
#9542255 - 01/04/09 06:17 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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 acidbase
Virtually Inverted
Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: DOC take over [Re: Plasmid]
#9551875 - 01/05/09 03:50 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I will get back to you but needless to say you have zero experience of practicalities.
PS: verbosity does not win this arm wrestle.
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Extracting when the sun shines!
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Hits of Sunshine
Raft Guide
Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 132
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: DOC take over [Re: acidbase]
#9552815 - 01/05/09 06:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've gotten DOC in powdered form.
I cant get it anymore but for about 2 months I was doing it about once a week.
I love the stuff, I wish I could get more.
You snorted a couple lines of that stuff and you would be triping for 20 hours.
A very strange drug though. I could never understand the experiences.
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acidbase
Virtually Inverted
Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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anything that lasts beyond 12 hrs is not worth it, imo.
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Extracting when the sun shines!
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: DOC take over [Re: acidbase]
#9553117 - 01/05/09 06:55 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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DOC is totally worth it. It gives you a lot more energy and euphoria than LSD, and the long trip is actually pretty manageable if you're smart about it.
I remember running all over my neighborhood tripping balls. 
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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.
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heartofalion
dancing with the cosmos
Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 976
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: DOC take over [Re: DNBplus]
#9553231 - 01/05/09 07:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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DOC was the nicest DOx ive taken, i took 6mg once and it wasnt to bad on the body...intense as fuck but the body load wasnt to bad
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Nunbuh_Chrubble
I'm just a kittycat
Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 3,534
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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I might take a DOx if I knew what it was. But if I ever get a blotter sold as LSD that tastes like chems I'm spitting that shit out and telling EVERYBODY around me NOT to take it.
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"This day is a lover..."
~Rumi
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Innoculus
Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 2,535
Loc: 0.0.0.1
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Quote:
Nunbuh_Chrubble said:
I might take a DOx if I knew what it was. But if I ever get a blotter sold as LSD that tastes like chems I'm spitting that shit out and telling EVERYBODY around me NOT to take it.
Buzzkill.
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Plasmid
Absent
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 1,719
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Re: DOC take over [Re: acidbase]
#9559161 - 01/06/09 05:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
acidbase said:
I will get back to you but needless to say you have zero experience of practicalities.
I'm sorry? You're telling that to a chemist. What you said about the blacklight being useless is just stupid. Either you think the blacklight test is practical and counts as evidence or you claim it's not practical and can't get any evidence.
Please don't tell me where my experiences lie.
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Absent.
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acidbase
Virtually Inverted
Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: DOC take over [Re: Plasmid]
#9561295 - 01/06/09 11:09 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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ok, at last I have read it.
The blacklight system maybe the more scientific was of detecting egolines but that is all it does. It does not give any real indication as to purity and quantity. I would prefer to just drop one instead of totally degrading what is a very labile compound.
Innoculus may have used this method on acid on sugar cubes, which I coincidentally have never come across, so if the test medium you have is blotters and microdots (things I have had) then the test is poorly match to the test material. So it is not infact useless but it does have limited application in terms of what it can be tested on. Paper does fluoresce under UV as do a wide range of materials so your ability to detect the characteristc blue fluorecence will be heavily impared meaning that as a test it is great in theory but really poor in application, especially in terms of recreational drug takers who can't be bothered to go through what they perceive as science mumbo jumbo just to find out that acid they have bought does in fact contain acid.
So I maintain that using taste is easier and far more likely to be used than some fairly heavily applied methodology.
I do fully see your point about people's lack perceptive ability. Some will be better than others at discerning what it is they have taken if the compound in question is taken blind. That is why I do believe that drugs should be legal (apart from crack and heroin) so that people are not put in a position when they don't know what they are taking.
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Extracting when the sun shines!
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acidbase
Virtually Inverted
Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
DOC is totally worth it. It gives you a lot more energy and euphoria than LSD, and the long trip is actually pretty manageable if you're smart about it.
I remember running all over my neighborhood tripping balls.
Intresting. Not that different to 2CB. Was just put off by the 1/2 life of the compound. I have done lots of acid in the past and the thought of still trippping 24hrs later puts me right off!
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Extracting when the sun shines!
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acidbase
Virtually Inverted
Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: DOC take over [Re: Plasmid]
#9561324 - 01/06/09 11:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Plasmid said:
Quote:
acidbase said:
I will get back to you but needless to say you have zero experience of practicalities.
I'm sorry? You're telling that to a chemist. What you said about the blacklight being useless is just stupid. Either you think the blacklight test is practical and counts as evidence or you claim it's not practical and can't get any evidence.
Please don't tell me where my experiences lie.
Apologies, on rereading that sounds a little rude. Came across wrong.
What i meant is that a test is only as good as the test sample you have. If you sample material for any reason conflicts with your methos of analysis then it reduces the tests usefulness....
ps: I thought you had qualifications in englsih and biology...
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Extracting when the sun shines!
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Plasmid
Absent
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 1,719
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Re: DOC take over [Re: acidbase]
#9561377 - 01/06/09 11:23 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
acidbase said:
I would prefer to just drop one instead of totally degrading what is a very labile compound.
LSD is not that sensitive and will not degrade appreciably via the black light test.
Quote:
so if the test medium you have is blotters and microdots (things I have had) then the test is poorly match to the test material.
It would work on blotter. For microdots, you'd probably have to break one open. The test isn't poorly matched to the material at all.
Quote:
Paper does fluoresce under UV . . .
Paper should not interfere because it does not fluoresce under UV to the same extent (and it certainly does not fluoresce blue). This is especially true of blotter paper. Some whitening agents might fluoresce, but LSD has a pretty high yield for fluorescence.
Based on my own practical experience, I've never seen paper exhibit much fluorescence under UV (and I do use UV lights when I develop TLC plates - I've exposed lots of different types of paper to different UV lights - nothing of the high intensity blue that you'd likely find with LSD or other ergolines and I really doubt that blotter paper is going to fluoresce in this way).
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as do a wide range of materials so your ability to detect the characteristc blue fluorecence will be heavily impared
Sure, a lot of materials will fluoresce, but not most of the substances you'd find carrying a dose. Paper does not fluoresce. Sugar does not. Pill filler (if used with microdots) does not. The previous examples you gave (bleach, for example) were wrong and now you seem to just be making up excuses.
Can you give an example of something that might actually fluoresce and interfere with this test? As far as I can tell, you are totally making this up on the basis of nothing.
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meaning that as a test it is great in theory but really poor in application
You're just making this up or you're very very mistaken. A blacklight is easy to get and doesn't cost much. The whole point is that it's far more reliable than something like taste and it's a simple test that pretty much anyone can carry out. To say that it's poor in application is complete bullshit.
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especially in terms of recreational drug takers who can't be bothered to go through what they perceive as science mumbo jumbo just to find out that acid they have bought does in fact contain acid.
Just because you think that recreational drug users are too stupid and useless to be bothered spending a little money on a blacklight to check for blue fluorescence doesn't mean that the test isn't useful. Those are two totally different issues. If a drug user can afford to purchase a scale and learn how to weigh things on a scale, then I hardly see how purchasing a blacklight is a big deal. Either way, even if you're right and the typical drug user is too much of a moron to figure out how to turn on a blacklight and look for blue fluorescence doesn't mean that the test is useless.
Quote:
So I maintain that using taste is easier and far more likely to be used than some fairly heavily applied methodology.
What heavily applied methodology?
Buy doses.
Go into dark room.
Plug in blacklight and turn it on.
Check for blue fluorescence.
If blue fluorescence is observed, then LSD may be present. If not, then LSD is not present.
You have some really shitty excuses and the information you're giving out is just plain wrong.
The "taste test":
A bitter taste was present, which only tells you that a compound with a bitter taste was present.
ps: I thought you had qualifications in englsih and biology...
I first got a degree in literature. Then I got a degree in chemistry, with a focus on both materials chemistry (solid state) and organic chemistry (largely synthesis). Even when I worked in organic synthesis, it was focused around organometallics (synthesizing ligands for photocells). I now work in biochemistry (or "biophysics" if you like), but I am, by far, more of a bioCHEMist than a BIOchemist. My chemistry background is quite broad.
I'm kind of sick of how absolutely full of shit you've been. Are you contradicting everything that I'm saying because you'll hope I'll get tired of correcting you?
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Absent.
Edited by Plasmid (01/06/09 11:39 PM)
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acidbase
Virtually Inverted
Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: DOC take over [Re: Plasmid]
#9561468 - 01/06/09 11:37 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well we have a differeing opinion on matters. You may think what I am saying is bullshit but then I think this whole crusade you are on is quite amusing. Instead of the Bible you have grabbed a text book instead.
UV destroys stuff rapidly. I wouldn't waste my money to perform what is a very rudimentary test, imo. I sure as hell don't need some Blacklight test to tell me whether or not I have good quality acid or not cause the people who I get it off are my friends and I trust their judgement. Perhaps this is not something you are capable of but then that is your problem.
Your whole argument is based on the fact Innoculus reckons he has used this method to detect microgram quantities on a sugar cube, which I think is rediculous and laughable. Show me a picture of blue fluorescence from LSD on a sugar cube or blotter or whatever and I will concede, otherwise you are just blowing smoke and hot air.
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Extracting when the sun shines!
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Plasmid
Absent
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 1,719
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Re: DOC take over [Re: acidbase]
#9561518 - 01/06/09 11:45 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I agree that the test is rudimentary, but it's way more informative than the taste test. Most of what you've said is complete bullshit. I'm not sure what you mean by the "text book" thing. You can look up the data on UV and LSD yourself. UV will degrade LSD only at a meaningful rate with a particular intensity and in water.
Can you provide any data to back up what you're saying?
My argument isn't based on what Innoculus said at all. I mentioned the blacklight test before he responded by saying that he'd done it before. Please don't try telling me where I'm getting my information from, because you don't know where it's coming from. I didn't ask Innoculus about this. If you want to keep saying that I'm full of shit, then I'll provide reference, but the simple fact is that you're basically completely wrong about UV degrading LSD to an appreciable extent
Show me a picture of blue fluorescence from LSD and I will concede
Fine. Coming soon.
Will you also admit that you're completely full of shit and have no idea what you're talking about?
BTW, what about a burden of proof on you? Shouldn't you have to demonstrate your own claims? No? Why are you so special? Either I demonstrate that I'm right or else you're right by default? You're clueless.
Start with this, but I'll find a photo for you:
http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16600
Identification and quantitative determination of LSD by fluorescence: new data (1986)
by Ph. BAUDOT
I quote:
"The UV irradiation technique is non-destructive and requires only simple equipment . . ."
Also, see the patent to Sandoz (the one I have is a Great Britain patent and should be easy to find online and free, GB patent #579484 titled Process for the Preparation of Diethylamide of d-Lysergic Acid)
"The follows a broad zone appearing blue in ultra-violet light which contains the diethylamide of d-lysergic acid." (describes chromatographic separation, this is in example #1, basically after pouring the sample onto a column, you illuminate the column with UV light and see two blue fluorescing zones - check the patent yourself)
And another, from the United Nations, titled Recommended Methods for Testing Lysergide (LSD) (you should be able to find this online and download it for free).
UN document: ST/NAR/17
Fluorescence
Method
Observe the original sample dosage form under long wavelength UV light. Alternatively, place a drop of the methanol extract described in Section B onto filter paper and allow to dry. Observe the spot under long wavelength UV light. In both cases the presence of LSD is indicated by a blue fluorescence. The detection limit of this method is less than 1 microgram.
Picture won't be tonight. I'd like you to find me something that shows I got my information from Innoculus, that LSD will be destroyed by the fluorescence test, and so forth.
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Absent.
Edited by Plasmid (01/07/09 12:29 AM)
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: DOC take over [Re: Plasmid]
#9561545 - 01/06/09 11:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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The "taste test" also sucks in that aside from possible bitterness of the medium, if you taste a DOX and spit out the blotter you will still get some of it on your tongue and potentially be affected by it. I thought that's what you were trying to avoid...
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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (01/06/09 11:50 PM)
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acidbase
Virtually Inverted
Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 451
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: DOC take over [Re: Plasmid]
#9561590 - 01/06/09 11:57 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Data?
PEAS are bitter and acid is not. What more is there to say?
The degradation of the LSD after exposure is secondary to the fact that you still need to spend the money to get the blacklight. If you can provide proof that your blacklighting method is that much more superior to taste (ie a picture that it actually works) then fine, I will concede.
You like getting onto 'you don't me' type line of defense. Like a panelist on the Jerry Springershow. I'm surprised you haven't said 'talk to the hand' yet lol.
I have BSc and an MSc and am doing a PhD and have spent 10 years in the lab so the fact I can criticise your approach is cause I have seen shit methods before.
Edit: Re papers: are you saying the average joe in the street is going to be able to wrap their heads around the intricacies of spectrofluorometry. I'm not saying they are morons but perhaps you have a little too much faith in people.
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Extracting when the sun shines!
Edited by acidbase (01/07/09 12:06 AM)
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Innoculus
Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 2,535
Loc: 0.0.0.1
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: DOC take over [Re: acidbase]
#9561954 - 01/07/09 01:06 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Plasmid.. you spend a lot of time on Shroomery. You don't get bored?
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: DOC take over [Re: acidbase]
#9561975 - 01/07/09 01:14 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
acidbase said:
Edit: Re papers: are you saying the average joe in the street is going to be able to wrap their heads around the intricacies of spectrofluorometry. I'm not saying they are morons but perhaps you have a little too much faith in people.
It doesn't take much to shine a blacklight on a little piece of paper in a dark room to see if it's the right color. Namely the ability to read a sentence all the way through. I don't get why this is even an argument, I thought everyone knew you could check for LSD with a blacklight.
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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.
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Plasmid
Absent
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 1,719
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Re: DOC take over [Re: acidbase]
#9561983 - 01/07/09 01:16 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
acidbase said:
PEAS are bitter and acid is not. What more is there to say?
That's not what I'm interested in. I'm talking about your claims about LSD degrading with the UV blacklight test or with this test not being practical.
But, while we're at it, okay, so PEAs could taste bitter, but does this mean that a bitter taste could only come from PEAs? If something on blotter tastes bitter then the only possible source of this taste is a PEA? No, of course not. I can just as easily name any number of other compounds that could interfere with this taste test: anything that has a bitter taste (and lots of substances have a bitter taste). So, the taste test only tells you that "maybe a PEA is present." It doesn't tell you that LSD isn't present (it could be LSD and a PEA or LSD and some other substance which has a bitter taste that was added for some reason). You've come up with all sorts of substances that you say "could" interfere with the UV test because many of those substances "could" fluoresce blue. Well, what about how many substances that could taste bitter? There are a hell of a lot of them.
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The degradation of the LSD after exposure
Doesn't occur to any appreciable extent. If you can back it up with something reliable, go ahead, but I've just given references stating that it doesn't degrade with black light (including the process for PREPARING LSD from the original patent, which involves monitoring it under exposure with blacklight while on a chromatography column).
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is secondary to the fact that you still need to spend the money to get the blacklight.
You can find UV blacklight bulbs for $5. Typical price range for a blacklight is $5 to $25. Also, lots of clubs use blacklights.
Quote:
If you can provide proof that your blacklighting method is that much more superior to taste (ie a picture that it actually works)
What do you mean "superior" to taste? I didn't say that it's better or worse. I made specific claims about what a fluorescence test will tell you. IMO, taste tells you nothing other than "there is something with a bitter taste on my dose" (which may or may not be a PEA and still doesn't rule out the possibility that LSD is on your dose). As Tchan99 also brought up, once you've tasted it, there's no turning back. A blacklight can show you fluorescence, which serves like a presumptive field test. Fluorescence indicates that LSD may be present (other ergot alkaloids will fluoresce, I think there's a thread here or on another forum showing LSAs from morning glories fluorescing blue). I think I've provided three references all claiming that LSD fluoresces blue: one is from the damn patent to Sandoz Inc. describing how to prepare d-LSD itself and the other two are from the UN and one has the fluorescence spectrum of LSD (I assume from the way you toss around chemistry facts that you know how to read a spectrum). I'll find you a pic, but I've already demonstrated that LSD (and other ergolines) do indeed fluoresce blue. I don't see why these references saying that "LSD exhibits blue fluorescence" doesn't satisfy you (the picture is just going to have something fluorescing blue and with a caption saying "this is LSD" - you still have to be able to read).
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You like getting onto 'you don't me' type line of defense.
Actually, I really don't like it, but people have this funny habit of trying to tell me things about myself, things that aren't true. I get people telling me, sort of like you did, that "Plasmid, you only read that in a book"or "Plasmid, you obviously haven't done many drugs." It's pretty fucking annoying, because the simple fact is that they're always wrong and it irritates me that someone thinks they have any right to tell me what I've done, what I think, where I learned something, how many drugs I've done, etc. I find it especially irritating because sometimes people tell me that I'm dismissive of the experiences of others, yet here I have other people trying to tell me what I have or have not done. Wouldn't it piss you off if suddenly I started making stuff up about you?
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I have BSc and an MSc and am doing a PhD and have spent 10 years in the lab so the fact I can criticise your approach is cause I have seen shit methods before.
Big fucking deal. Appeal to authority. I tend not to bring up my education because I know that my degrees don't make me right. You should know that too. I don't give a fuck what your education is. You seem to be making up groundless "criticisms" on the spot and now instead of providing substantial evidence for what you've been claiming, you're telling me about your degrees. Why would that make your criticisms any more credible to me? I don't really care and frankly, you could be lying about your degrees (as I could be lying about mine, so who cares?). Wow, you've seen shit methods (what are you a psychologist because they use the shittiest methods)? Are you sure you have real degrees or are they fake? What are they in? Were they actually mailed to you in six weeks? You're lying, aren't you? (see, isn't it kind of annoying when someone pretends that they know something about you?) But you assume on the basis of nothing that a method is shit for no reason whatsoever? I mean, if you have a reason, then say it, but the stuff you've been saying seems to come out of nowhere.
If you have a criticism, then why not stick to criticisms that you know are valid. Or why not just ask me, "What's the detection limit? Do you know if X, Y or Z will interfere?" I have a hard time believing that you can think that a taste test is really a reasonable way of testing anything if you actually have a degree. This kind of shitty reasoning is just one more reason to remind you that it's not your degrees that make you right or wrong.
I like being challenged and I enjoy being criticized, but I have a hard time seeing any validity in your criticisms.
Quote:
are you saying the average joe in the street is going to be able to wrap their heads around the intricacies of spectrofluorometry.
Those were for your benefit. They were references. They say that LSD fluoresces blue. I haven't found a picture yet, but those are pretty clear about it (one even says that the detection limit is under 1 microgram).
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Absent.
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