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InvisibleCausality
Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 108
How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? *DELETED* *DELETED*
    #9515621 - 12/30/08 01:41 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflinePlasmid
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Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? [Re: Causality]
    #9515711 - 12/30/08 01:56 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

What kind of research?
You need to be more specific.

(hopes that this doesn't degenerate into some babbling discussion about frequencies that is characteristic of nonsensical ideas).

All sine waves have frequencies.  Usually sin waves are use to describe (or model) some kind of phenomena.  I can use a sine wave to describe the propagation of light.

What are you talking about?


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OfflineHelixx
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Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? [Re: Causality]
    #9515717 - 12/30/08 01:58 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The correlation between septal and hippocampal unit activity and hippocampus EEG were studied in unanesthetized curarized rats. Extracellular recordings were statistically analyzed in order to obtain the time interval histograms and auto and crosscorrelograms. During the induction of a hippocampal theta rhythm by sensory stimulation or physostigmine injection the septal units showed a bimodal time interval histogram. The autocorrelograms of septal and hippocampal unit activity and the crosscorrelograms between units and from them with the hippocampal EEG showed 4–6 waves of decreasing amplitude in one second interval. The autocorrelograms showed serial dependence. LSD-25 abolished the hippocampal rhythmic activity. During the control period as well as after LSD-25 treatment in physostigmine injected animals there was a significantly smaller number of spikes in each septal burst. Scopolamine and pentobarbitone disorganized septal and hippocampal activity.




Quote:

For one, mescaline does not tend towards ego loss. Rather, it tends toward ego amplification and clarification. This is probably the biggest difference but it makes the two very different chemicals. Also, mescaline is very, very calm compared to LSD. LSD is a tryptamine, and like most tryptamines, makes the thoughts race, and contains a significant "mind fuck" aspect that can result in a very difficult but also very mind-blowing journey. Mescaline is a phenethylamine, and although not all phenethylamines are like mescaline at all, mescaline itself is characterized by a very calm and meditating mind state, with actually not a whole lot of racing thought going on at all. The mescaline state of mind is vastly easier to navigate with calm and uniform emotion, whereas the LSD mindstate (and mushroom) consists of rapidly fluctuating emotions. If one were to graph the effects, it would be a series of sharp ups and downs, whereas the mescaline graph would be more of a smooth, gradual sine wave, never getting as high as LSD might, but also never getting as low.





I couldn't find anything other than research vaguely stating increased sine activity.


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InvisibleCausality
Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 108
Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? *DELETED* [Re: Helixx]
    #9515745 - 12/30/08 02:04 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflinePlasmid
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Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? [Re: Causality]
    #9515780 - 12/30/08 02:10 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Causality said:
more specifically, whether a particular frequency range correlates with "mystical experiences" -- i assume it would be a higher frequency than 7-8hz which i believe is the norm...




I assume that you're talking about EEG frequency?  I've not seen any information about the frequency of EEG recordings with subjects under LSD. 

Fuck Tesla.

Try your own search:

Entrez cross-database search

Maybe something like "LSD and EEG"


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InvisibleCausality
Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 108
Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? *DELETED* [Re: Causality]
    #9515804 - 12/30/08 02:17 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflinePlasmid
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Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? [Re: Causality]
    #9515904 - 12/30/08 02:34 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Causality said:
that our brains evolved around such a frequency through evolution makes sense considering the symbiotic relationship of of everything in nature.




I am not sure whether or not the other things you've said can be supported by evidence, but this struck me as something which is easy to criticize.  Just because a hypothesis makes sense doesn't mean much.  The bare minimum requirement to even consider a hypothesis is that it must make, at the very least, make sense.  However, it is possible to offer a large number of explanations that all "make sense" for anything, so "making sense" is not at all a reason to think that an explanation is anywhere near true.  I have found that many people lacking scientific literacy think that pointing out that an explanation "makes sense" also means that the explanation is a good explanation, but this simply isn't the case: making sense is the very least that is required.

However, to say that everything in nature has a symbiotic relationship is simply false.

One fact to consider when contemplating a possible relationship between the magnetic field of the earth and the frequency of brain waves is that that every ten thousand (or so) years the polarity of earth's magnetic field reverse.  This means that at some point the magnetic field must go down to zero.  I'm not going to speculate on the implications of the loss of magnetic field for human mental activity, but I am skeptical about there being a meaningful link (on the other hand, if you can provide evidence that this is the case, I might look at it and learn something new which always pleases me).

I believe that there is also a field of research aimed at directly stimulating very precise areas of the brain using magnetic stimulation, but I have really only heard of this and don't know anything specific about the technology.


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InvisibleCausality
Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 108
Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? *DELETED* [Re: Plasmid]
    #9516946 - 12/30/08 11:02 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflineCoaster
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Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? [Re: Causality]
    #9516955 - 12/30/08 11:04 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

that makes acid seem like a big mindfuck which i dont think it is
however compared to mescaline that is true, they make mescaline sound so epic
but it is, its just funny the way they put it
:sanpedro:


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? [Re: Coaster]
    #9516975 - 12/30/08 11:11 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Coaster said:
that makes acid seem like a big mindfuck which i dont think it is
however compared to mescaline that is true, they make mescaline sound so epic
but it is, its just funny the way they put it
:sanpedro:




What are you talking about? I don't think mescaline is a mind fuck at all compared to lsd. I don't think that's what you meant tho?


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InvisibleCausality
Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 108
Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? *DELETED* [Re: Plasmid]
    #9516994 - 12/30/08 11:16 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflineCoaster
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Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? [Re: Causality]
    #9517072 - 12/30/08 11:37 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

ya i meant lsd is more mindfuck than mescaline
but i dont find lsd to be a mindfuck that much really
its highly controlable like mescy
unlike shrooms
as much


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? [Re: Coaster]
    #9517109 - 12/30/08 11:49 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I totally agree on that :thumbup:


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OfflineKrash Kharma
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Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? [Re: krypto2000]
    #9517161 - 12/30/08 11:59 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

LSD is very controllable, but it has a strange feature that, for me, in the beginning at least, causes me to be slightly worried in my attempts to control it.

As though it's going to slap me in the face really, really hard eventually, for trying to tell it what to do.


But at the same time that tends to seem like all talk, and only a little walk.


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OfflinePlasmid
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Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? [Re: Causality]
    #9517480 - 12/30/08 01:22 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Causality said:
i'm making no claims at all




Don't be such a baby.  You came here asking for criticism and more information, so I offered criticism and what little information I could.  Don't ask to be criticized and then whine like a little girl when you get what you asked for. 

You did make claims, such as the claim about the symbiotic relationships pervasive through nature.  You also made claims about the link between the magnetic field and the effect on the brain.  I disputed one claim and told you that I wasn't sure whether or not the rest of what you said is true.

Quote:

also your information about how often the poles shift is not backed up by geology --




I don't really care.  I think I made it clear that I wasn't entirely sure if I was right.  I offered you that information for your benefit.  If you think it's wrong and can provide evidence, then please do so.  I'm not going to take your word for it because your ideas about science are quite obviously muddled in misunderstanding.

Quote:

the only thing that makes perfect sense are causal relationships -- cause and effect.




First: that's stupid and you're wrong. 
Second: What the fuck does this have to do with anything?

Quote:

show me clear contradictions, don't just claim something doesn't make sense




Why don't you go back and reread what I posted? I did not say that what you said did not make sense.  Where did I say that?  I didn't.  Did you even read my post?  I said that the bare minimum of any explanation is that it needs to make sense.

I basically said, "Well, your thoughts might make sense, but so what?  That's the very least that your hypotheses should offer."  I didn't say that your ideas don't make sense.  Did I?  No.  Please pay attention instead of getting upset the second someone offers the criticism that YOU ASKED FOR.

Quote:

enumerate precisely why it doesn't make sense besides that you need more evidence.




Again, I didn't say that any of what you said didn't make sense.  I said that making sense is the least that your explanations should offer.

Quote:

what authority are you to determine the veracity of a hypothesis? you're clearly missing the point i'm making...




You've totally misread my post, so I think this is ironic.  You asked for criticism and now you're being totally defensive and have completely misunderstood what I've said.  Do you want my criticisms or not?  I didn't claim to be an authority.  I responded to your request for criticism.  I offered you my opinion about your explanations.  Once again for the gifted children:

I don't know whether or not the claims you've made (that is, your background information about earth's magnetic field and such) are correct, so you should probably be prepared to find evidence on these issues in case they are disputed.  I am not disputing them.

I am simply saying that your hypotheses suck because if all they have to offer is that they "make sense" then this is the bare minimum that they should offer.  Hypotheses must at least make sense.

Oh and appealing to authority is a logical fallacy.  It doesn't matter if I'm twelve years old and still in grade school or if I have a PhD in biology or physics.  What matters is whether or not my arguments are valid and sound.

Quote:

please name something in nature that doesn't share a symbiotic relationship




You really are being an idiot.  You're totally misunderstanding my response and you're stuck on a minor point which you were totally wrong about.  Do you know what "symbiosis" even means?  A symbiotic relationship can't be shared by one organism - what's it going to share it with?  Itself?

House cats and sharks do not share a symbiotic relationship with each other.


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OfflineKrash Kharma
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Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? [Re: Plasmid]
    #9517746 - 12/30/08 02:12 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Have a question thats been on my mind: is anyone aware of any data or research regarding LSD and sine wave frequency?




Read that and tell me where he "asked for criticism"


it's so sick that you get off on this bullshit


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OfflinePlasmid
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Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? [Re: Krash Kharma]
    #9517829 - 12/30/08 02:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

At 12:17 AM of 12/30/2008, Causality said:
i'm merely putting the idea out there to be critiqued.

If you don't like my posts, my attitude or what I enjoy doing, then too bad for you.  I like being able to offer criticism.  It's part of what I do for a living.  Complaining about it is not going to do anything.

I might be harsh but I do try to offer accurate information when I criticize.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? [Re: Plasmid]
    #9517861 - 12/30/08 02:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

But that's like Caveman A being like 'Hey guys, it kinda sucks out here. I'm going to build a shelter, what do you guys think would be a good type of structure? Help me critique my idea'

And then caveman B goes 'Fuck shelters! Learn to deal with the rain and cold'


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OfflineKrash Kharma
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Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? [Re: Plasmid]
    #9517927 - 12/30/08 02:42 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Plasmid said:
At 12:17 AM of 12/30/2008, Causality said:
i'm merely putting the idea out there to be critiqued.

If you don't like my posts, my attitude or what I enjoy doing, then too bad for you.  I like being able to offer criticism.  It's part of what I do for a living.  Complaining about it is not going to do anything.

I might be harsh but I do try to offer accurate information when I criticize. 




I completely agree and I think you're a very valuable asset to this message board

My issue is that you explicitly go out of your way to do what you do with extreme malice and no concern for the fact that your reader is a human with emotions

Yes, people should be strong enough to not give a fuck what some one says behind an impersonal medium like a computer, but they're not.


--------------------

The number of times I edit my post is directly related to the number of times I've hit the bong :bonghit2:


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InvisibleCausality
Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 108
Re: How LSD Works: Sine Wave Frequency? *DELETED* [Re: Krash Kharma]
    #9518082 - 12/30/08 03:07 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

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