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Offlinejagribok
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Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 7
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Topless shiitake
    #9346994 - 12/01/08 08:10 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Folks,
This is my first grow of Shiitakes, and its not going too well: the fruits do not have caps (or they are tiny!).

Here is how it looks:





It was going fine to begin with: the spawn grown just fine in sawdust jar. The bags with supplemented sawdust colonized in due time, and browned soon thereafter. I have given them a cold soak for 2 days, and put in my FC. I misted them every day and maintained 65-70F at 90-95% humidity there. I also have a small fluorescent bulb on a 12 hour timer. But they are growing with super-fat stems and no caps!

Help please! What am I doing wrong?


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Invisiblefrankenstoen

Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 385
Re: Topless shiitake [Re: jagribok]
    #9347523 - 12/01/08 09:16 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Wow - those are weird! How much fresh air exchange are they getting?


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Offlinejagribok
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Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 7
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Topless shiitake [Re: frankenstoen]
    #9348059 - 12/01/08 10:21 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Well, I am not sure. I do not have any special provisions for ventilation, but the fruiting chamber is huge (10x4x3ft) and there are only a few things in it: 4 regular oyster bags and a few king oyster jars, all of which develop just fine. Oysters do develop strange stemmy things without enough FAE, and it is not happening here. I am opening FC twice a day for a few minutes. Plus, there is a hole on the side of the box that provides some additional air exchange.
Are Shiitake's more sensitive to CO2 concentration then oysters?

The only thing that went wrong with these Shiitake's is during the cold bath, one of the freezer cold bags leaked a tiny bit of the gel thats inside. I am not sure what is in that gel, but possibly it contains something that caused this abnormal development?


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Invisiblefrankenstoen

Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 385
Re: Topless shiitake [Re: jagribok]
    #9348174 - 12/01/08 10:37 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Shiitakes are LESS sensitive than oysters to CO2. So if the oysters are fine, the shiitakes should be.

That freeze-gel contamination might be what caused this - any idea what that gel is made of? Did you rinse off the block afterwards?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Topless shiitake [Re: frankenstoen]
    #9348374 - 12/01/08 11:10 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

It's from being a degenerating strain.  I've been seeing it a lot lately.  They're fairly useless, since the stems are gnarly and the caps are all you eat.(at least the caps are all I eat)

Pick those off now, and as soon as you see them forming in the future, and hope for some nice fruits.
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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OfflineBraniac
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Registered: 11/28/08
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Re: Topless shiitake [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9349627 - 12/02/08 06:41 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

those look scary!


--------------------
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving, hysterical, naked, dragging themselves through the ghetto streets at dawn looking for an angry fix, angel headed hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night, who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the supernatural darkness of cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities contemplating jazz, who bared their brains to Heaven under the El and saw Mohammedan angels staggering on tenement roofs illuminated...


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Offlinejagribok
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Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 7
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Topless shiitake [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9349687 - 12/02/08 07:12 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks, RR!
This is a surprise, since the strain is from FungiPerfecti (the plug spawn, cleaned through two agar dishes), and I have only kept it for a month or so before spawning to bulk.


Edited by jagribok (12/02/08 07:13 AM)


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OfflineEmperor Reishi
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Registered: 09/11/08
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Re: Topless shiitake [Re: jagribok]
    #9350083 - 12/02/08 09:17 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Here's a "Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms" link about shiitakes

http://books.google.com/books?id=y1fnacRg1AYC&pg=RA1-PA271&lpg=RA1-PA271&dq=shiitake+cap+formation&source=web&ots=VOBR-T3ynM&sig=-UmdxbuDRqhOLAeOz2PU6BOvDY4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

It says Low light conditions can cause growth retardation and deformities. I dunno if that's a possiblity in you situation. How much light does your small bulb give off in lumens...

Also, I know shiitake generally don't need high CO2 levels during fruiting, but maybe for arguments sake put a plastic bag over one of your cakes there and see if it triggers longer stems...

Just a thought...


--------------------
EmperoR ReishI

Looking for:    Live Cultures: Maitake[sclerotia forming], Wood Ear[Auricularia Polytricha],            Prints: **Psilocybe mexicana,                                Reishi [other than red], Bioluminessent                                                                          Cubes & Pan Cyans

Available for trade:    Live cultures: Reishi[ganoderma lucidum], Shiitake[lentinula edodes], Chicken of the woods[Laetiporus                                            sulphureus], Enoki [Flammulina velutipes], Oyster [Pleurotus ostreatus], Lion's Mane [Hericium                                                            erinaceus]


Edited by Emperor Reishi (12/02/08 09:20 AM)


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Offlinejagribok
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Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 7
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Topless shiitake [Re: Emperor Reishi]
    #9352317 - 12/02/08 04:51 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks, ER. It is a possibility that they did not get enough light. The bulb I used (it is a stronger one now) was the 13W spiral fluorescent kind (the one advertised as a 60W incandescent replacement) and it was 1.5 ft above the block. I do not use cakes, but I suppose I can try one out as you said.
I just ordered new Shiitake LC from a different company, I will see how that does.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Registered: 02/28/06
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Re: Topless shiitake [Re: jagribok]
    #9355771 - 12/03/08 12:44 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

i seen that before as well, they break apart and look like cotton candy on the inside.

when it happened to me what i had concluded was due to my furnace running it might have been sucking the humidty out,but my gauge was too slow to react to show acurate readings or maybe all the dust the furnace kicks up was causing major contams, hence the dry cotton candy  looking insides


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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OfflineEmperor Reishi
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Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 145
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Topless shiitake [Re: jagribok]
    #9356218 - 12/03/08 05:57 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jagribok said:
Thanks, ER. It is a possibility that they did not get enough light. The bulb I used (it is a stronger one now) was the 13W spiral fluorescent kind (the one advertised as a 60W incandescent replacement) and it was 1.5 ft above the block. I do not use cakes, but I suppose I can try one out as you said.
I just ordered new Shiitake LC from a different company, I will see how that does.




I think the 13w flourecent should have been sufficient. I just started a liquid culture yesterday of the FP strain of shiitake. If all goes well with my first batch and you are in need i'd be happy to send you a culture.

And I'm sorry I mis-spoke, I didn't mean cake, I was just refering to your block (what kind of wood did you use BTW) I can get 1 cubic Yard of mulch in my area for like $40... I dunno if any of the varieties are good for shiitake though. I think I can get cypress and 2 others I'm going to check into it)

So drop me a line if you need a culture of that shiitake.


--------------------
EmperoR ReishI

Looking for:    Live Cultures: Maitake[sclerotia forming], Wood Ear[Auricularia Polytricha],            Prints: **Psilocybe mexicana,                                Reishi [other than red], Bioluminessent                                                                          Cubes & Pan Cyans

Available for trade:    Live cultures: Reishi[ganoderma lucidum], Shiitake[lentinula edodes], Chicken of the woods[Laetiporus                                            sulphureus], Enoki [Flammulina velutipes], Oyster [Pleurotus ostreatus], Lion's Mane [Hericium                                                            erinaceus]


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Offlinejagribok
Stranger
Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 7
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Topless shiitake [Re: Emperor Reishi]
    #9494661 - 12/25/08 08:30 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Well, second flush is developing just fine, with normal (actually pretty large) caps from the same blocks. I will try to post pics later.
The only thing I changed is I replaced the light bulb from regular spiral 40W equivalent for a daylight (5500K) 75W equivalent. Actually, I know its light that caused it to begin with: in this flush, which is normal, I see a couple of "just stems" growing on the underside of the blocks, where there is no light.


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InvisibleFungalution
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Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 129
Loc: Earth... I think?
Re: Topless shiitake [Re: jagribok]
    #9512099 - 12/29/08 12:32 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I got the same thing from a FP strain. I had 2 PF style wood based cakes in the same FC at the same time. One fruited within 4-5 days with fruits like the ones above and the other cake fruited about 4 days later and had normal fruits. Both cakes were inoculated from the same petri dish at the same time. Actually every thing was the same for each cake except for the fruits they produced. I do not think environmental conditions are the cause. Poor or not optimal environmental conditions may potentiate the problem but I believe RR is correct about it being an exhausted strain.


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Offlinejagribok
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Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 7
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Topless shiitake [Re: Fungalution]
    #9512332 - 12/29/08 01:32 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

You might be right, but it seems more likely to me that if a strain is senescing, it is more likely to not give good fruit ever after it is damaged, since senescence is the visible effect of genetic damage. In this case, the same blocks gave a good flush after being exposed to better light. It might be that there is some "predisposition" (i.e.  mutation/s) in this strain to give such abnormal fruit in less then optimal conditions since I am not the only one seeing this. Funny thing is that my second flush with normal fruit was very very successful: large fruit, and many of them. I ended up harvesting almost 3lb from the two original blocks.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Topless shiitake [Re: jagribok]
    #9515381 - 12/29/08 10:52 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I doubt it's the lighting.  In addition to many of the strains in circulation degenerating, I've noticed if I use too much wheat bran in the substrate it can cause that problem.  I've cut back on supplementation with shiitake to no more than ten percent by volume the amount of the sawdust, while I use up to 20% with most other species.  I see those mutants on a regular basis and they seriously piss me off.  I get them with fp and aloha medicinals 75, as well as a strain of unknown origins that doesn't resemble either of the other two.

Bottom line, pick them off as soon as you notice them.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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