Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds UK
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineHotnuts
old hand
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 6 days, 14 hours
Fed's balance sheet.
    #9506705 - 12/28/08 10:54 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: Hotnuts]
    #9506819 - 12/28/08 11:19 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The ballooning balance sheet is remarkable, but the given article totally neglects the liabilities side.

This part of the article:
Quote:

But where does the Fed get the money to do all these things? Simple: It counterfeits it.

Well, I shouldn't really say that. It's perfectly legal when the Fed does it. But if you or I did the same thing, we'd be thrown in jail. Let's just say the Fed prints the money. Or better yet, that the Fed creates it.




is actually false; the Fed so far hasn't created any money directly (afaik).


Here's a better article that covers both sides of the balance sheet:
http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2008/12/federal_reserve_1.html

Some images from the article:
Assets:

Liabilities:


An important point is that they are not printing currency to expand the balance sheet, but instead are encouraging banks to hold reserves with the Fed by paying interest on them and funding certain programs through the Treasury. So far, at least, there hasn't been real quantitative easing.

Keeping extra bank reserves is pretty direct; instead of the banks lending to each other, they just let the Fed lend their funds out.
For the Treasury part, the Treasury issued bonds in an amount equal to the increase in their deposits with the Fed, and the Fed lent out an amount equal to the new deposits, so the actual amount of cash in circulation didn't change - public bought treasury bonds and then borrowed an equal amount through the CPLF and similar Fed facilities.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Fed's balance sheet. *DELETED* [Re: phi1618]
    #9506963 - 12/28/08 11:57 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by LunarEclipse<p>Reason for deletion: ESAD


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

Edited by LunarEclipse (02/08/09 05:55 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #9508880 - 12/28/08 07:07 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

False. Sellers no longer have a coupon payment, so the Fed pays a premium greater than remaining PV, incentivizing the seller to part with bonds in exchange for cash. Doing this in a noninflationary environment with short term securities, the premium is small. Sellers are happy to book a small profit. But attempting it in a crisis environment with longer term bonds and hyperinflation on the horizon, there is a possibility of panic selling and total collapse of the bond market. Impairment of Treasury's ability to float more debt is right in front of our noses, whether the Fed prints more currency deposits or not.




The market for treasuries is currently liquid and interest rates on Treasury bills and bonds is at the lowest point ever, so any talk of "hyperinflation" or "collapse of the bond market" is highly speculative.
I also don't think that "present value" is a relevant consideration here, since PV calculations are largely based on prevailing Treasury rates. Instead, the market price can be most easily understood as determined by supply and demand. Right now, market demand for treasuries is very high.

Quote:

"We have a careful separation of powers, asking the Fed to take responsibility for inflation and letting the Treasury worry about how to pay its bills."

This is disingenuous at best. The bond market sets interest rates, not the FOMC. The only leverage the Fed had was to raise or lower bank reserve requirements -- and they've been shovelling cash as fast as possible to shore up bank capital, accepting worthless paper as "collateral." The Bernanke crew is in crisis mode and conspiring with Treasury to explain away the collapse of two primary dealers, insolvency of AIG and the GSEs, collapse of share prices, abrupt conversion of GS and MS to Federal banks, cessation of CP lending and global lockdown on commercial letters of credit. Both the Fed and Treasury were caught flat-footed after a full year of assuring everyone that "subprime" was contained.




Maybe you can explain this a little more carefully - I don't understand the relevance of your response to the point Dr. Hamilton was making.

Quote:

"Historically there [is] really just one big story -- the Fed created deposits primarily by buying Treasury securities, and these ultimately ended up as cash held by the public."

Worse than wrong, it's wrong twice. How was the Fed initially capitalized to start buying Treasury securities ?? and if greenbacks have any intrinsic value, are you saying that cash is backed by future tax revenue ?? Nothing could be farther from the truth. In the early 70s when I was at UW Madison, we were lectured by Fed officials that they had an M3 annual monetary expansion target of 3-5%, on the theory that cash in circulation (bank created and multiplied by lending) should mirror (or drive) 3-5% annual GDP growth -- all of which was patently false. Treasury borrowing requirements drive Fed policy, the economy and private wealth be damned. We get paper IOUs backed by nothing but mounting deficits. Social Security and Medicare trust funds are nonexistent.




I just noticed that your post is copypasta from the given link - are you "Alan von Altendorf"?
Anyway, here's a copypasta response:
Quote:

As to your third point, between June 27, 1996 and June 28, 2007, the Fed's holdings of securities went from $383 B to $790 B, an increase of $407 B. Currency held by the public went from $425 B to $812 B, an increase of $387 B. Hence it is quite accurate to claim that "the Fed created deposits primarily by buying Treasury securities, and these ultimately ended up as cash held by the public."




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: phi1618]
    #9509095 - 12/28/08 07:55 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

phi1618 said:
Quote:

I just noticed that your post is copypasta from the given link - are you "Alan von Altendorf"?








No but his name sounds cool, especially having von as a middle name.

I agree with his sentiments that "we" (the taxpaying people on "Main Street") are getting paper IOUs backed by nothing but mounting deficits.  I just don't understand how someone of your obvious intelligence can't see the soon to be problems in adding huge amounts of debt to an already bloated Federal deficit.  The TARP program has and will continue to be nothing more than a giant ripoff of the American middle class taxpayers while benefiting the VERY SAME people (corporations) such as Citi and AIG who helped get us into the credit crisis.  There is little accountability to who gets what money and how they are spending it.  In fact, while getting the TARP money from Congress Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke assured them the money would go to buy troubled mortgages.  Obviously Congress should have gotten that in writing because later Paulson changes "his" mind and gives the money to the big banks and AIG instead of buying troubled mortgages. 

Other than a flight to the relative safety of Treasury bonds/bills, your notion of a currently strong bond market is simply NOT the case.  The corporate and municipal bond market is in fact right now in shambles and likely to get far worse.  Rates are very high compared to the T Bond rates.  Companies and municipalities are having major problems borrowing money.  Many states including CA which is by itself one of the largest "economies" in the world are already in effect bankrupt.  Arnold can talk till he is blue in the face about CA never missing a bond payment but past history in no way guarantees future performance. 

Fiat fractional reserve currencies are destined to fail and the U.S. dollar is certainly no exception.  Trying to "revive the economy" with massive Fed and Treasury interventions in the form of huge amounts of fresh debt is only delaying and greatly increasing the magnitude of the inevitable collapse of the dollar.  Do you honestly think China Japan etc. will continue to hold T Bonds if the dollar starts dropping in earnest?  Sure they are reluctant to dump T Bonds because it hurts the yuan and the yen and their exports but when push comes to shove and they are more worried about protecting their ASSets than exports of goods they can't sell anyway to the poor people of the U.S. the drop will be precipitous and feed on itself.

Inflation is "low" for now because asset values such as real estate and lately oil have been getting pummeled and because retail sales are so bad that the stores can't get people to buy even at 50 percent cuts in prices of goods.  Of particular interest is that gasoline demand has actually DROPPED even at 1/2 the price of 6 months ago.  The "average" Joe is hurting to such an extent they won't drive more even at 1/2 the price of gas let alone go out and buy a bunch of clothes or electronic items.

The "public" is getting royally screwed by Wall St. and Congress isn't helping in fact they are only helping make the screwing faster and harder in the form of the TARP and soon to be TRILLION dollar "infrastructure" program of Obama.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #9509202 - 12/28/08 08:21 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I agree we have a debt problem.
I agree that a lot of damage has already been done by the credit bubble and accompanying irresponsible and criminal behavior. I agree that there's serious moral hazard and fairness issues with bailing out the criminals responsible for the mess.

On the other hand, there's a pretty solid history of financial system failures being followed by depressions. The Japanese and Nordic bubbles of the 1980s and the following financial crises were horrible, but not followed by the level of economic devastation that we saw in the 1870s or 1930s. The Nordic countries actually recovered pretty well, and their asset bubble was beyond bad - their key policy was their aggressive treatment of the banking system - consolidation, nationalization, taking bad loans off the books - which would be my preferred solution to our present mess, and has some resemblance to what's actually happening. The Japanese hid their problems as long as possible, but eventually the financial insolvency was socialized through various means.

I think the TARP is a pretty reasonable bad solution - but there are no good solutions to our present situation. It's politically possible in a way that putting banks into conservatorship isn't, and it gets the job of keeping the financial in some vague semblance of working order done.

AIG and the derivatives mess is a whole nother issue, and one hell of a mess. But, it needs to be solved somehow, and I'm not a supporter of the "jubilee" of a liquidated financial system which would be the result of doing nothing.

The economy is a living organism - if it stops moving, it will die. We need to keep credit moving somehow or we're in for a world of hurt, middle class included.


Anyway, don't take my technical quibbles in this thread - the Fed is not (yet, afaik) "printing" money - it's using other methods to expand its balance sheet. That's the only myth I'm trying to dispel - I don't claim to understand the consequences of what's actually happening, and I know the situation is bad.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHotnuts
old hand
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 6 days, 14 hours
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: phi1618]
    #9516893 - 12/30/08 08:39 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

"The economy is a living organism - if it stops moving, it will die. We need to keep credit moving somehow or we're in for a world of hurt, middle class included."

The economy needs to contract significantly and hit a solid bottom. It's an economy built on credit and that's not healthy. The housing boom started in 01 when interest rates were near a historic low like they are now. Loans flowing like pure madness and with the low interest rates came more investmenting in high risks. We can't fix the economy with a solution that's the reason we're in this mess in the first place. We'll continue to go through this decade after decade if the markets aren't allowed to fix themselves. I can see aiding the major banks with bridge loans, but I can't see aiding poorly run or profitable industrials just because jobs are on the line.

A good example is, GM is lowering lending standards after GMAC received bank holding status and was allowed to get loans from the discount window. Why? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Fed's balance sheet. *DELETED* [Re: Hotnuts]
    #9516969 - 12/30/08 09:10 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by LunarEclipse

Reason for deletion: Hmmm....



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHotnuts
old hand
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 6 days, 14 hours
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #9517111 - 12/30/08 09:50 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Because allowing 170 banking institutions to go under would be catastrophic economically (at least for the short term) and I believe that they are, or will be able to repay the loans. The only thing I dislike about the situation is the lack of management change and the lack of transparency.

"Do you think we should also aid the major players at the major banks with this same taxpayer money so they can pay large bonuses to their execs when they have lost billions for their shareholders and created the biggest credit crisis in modern history?"

Of course not.

Edited by Hotnuts (12/30/08 09:54 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: Hotnuts]
    #9549977 - 01/05/09 08:46 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

btw, I think the Fed's about to start printing:
http://www.newyorkfed.org/markets/mbs_faq.html
Quote:

How will purchases under the agency MBS program be financed?
Purchases will be financed through the creation of additional bank reserves.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: Hotnuts]
    #9743374 - 02/05/09 08:02 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Another update to this story:
http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN0539414220090205
Quote:

the Federal Reserve's balance sheet... slipped to $1.834 trillion on Feb 4, from $1.911 trillion on Jan. 28.



so, the balance sheet is shrinking now, though there's still way more assets and liabilities than before the crisis.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblememes
Blessed


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: phi1618]
    #9745102 - 02/05/09 09:47 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know how I missed this thread earlier, but federal reserve policy is one of my forte's :smile:

I haven't read any of the lengthy posts made above (i'm drunk and high, and don't feel like it), but from the snippits I saw, I'm backing Phi.


The fed prints when it needs to create liquidity, and sucks the money back up when all that fabricated liquidity starts being circulated (as to prevent unnaturally high inflation). 

Years and years and years ago before Ben Bernanke was Fed Chairman, back when he was at some medial post (I don't know what he was doing at the time, as the story I was told didn't contain those details) my Federal Reserve Policy teacher was at an economic conference hosted by some econ big shot at the time.  The crowd was talking amongst themselves, waiting for the presentations to begin - and in walked Bernanke.  Immediately a hush fell over the crowd as they observed the entrance of this brilliant man.

This is now the man in charge of the most properous nation in the world's monetary policy.  He's smarter then you, then the creator of the YouTube videos you watch, and even smarter than the professors who educated the creators of those YouTube videos.

Trust the man.

Have faith in the man.

If you don't think he's able to do the job - then God help us all.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: memes]
    #9746745 - 02/05/09 10:39 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Years and years and years ago before Ben Bernanke was Fed Chairman, back when he was at some medial post (I don't know what he was doing at the time, as the story I was told didn't contain those details) my Federal Reserve Policy teacher was at an economic conference hosted by some econ big shot at the time.  The crowd was talking amongst themselves, waiting for the presentations to begin - and in walked Bernanke.  Immediately a hush fell over the crowd as they observed the entrance of this brilliant man.

This is now the man in charge of the most properous nation in the world's monetary policy.  He's smarter then you, then the creator of the YouTube videos you watch, and even smarter than the professors who educated the creators of those YouTube videos.

Trust the man.

Have faith in the man.




Pure hubris.

Listen to yourself.

I am going to enjoy bumping threads like these in a couple years..


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblememes
Blessed


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: zorbman]
    #9748300 - 02/06/09 07:50 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I was simply relaying a story I was told by a professor.

:shrug:

That whole "i'll enjoy bumping threads like these" goes both ways.  I can't begin to think of how many times youve predicted total economic collapse, hyperinflation, and the implosion of the dollar.

Let's just agree to disagree :smile:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: memes]
    #9748564 - 02/06/09 09:19 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry, that came off a bit harsher than I intended. Yes, I have predicted bad economic trouble. So far I've been correct. We won't have long to wait to see whether I am correct about hyperinflation.

I just don't place my faith in any one person, whether it be the Fed chairman or Obama, to right this ship. Bernanke is trying to walk the razor's edge right now; On one side of the abyss lies deflation and on the other inflation. I give him about a 1% chance of pulling it off and of course I hope he succeeds. Hope for the best, expect the worst is my attitude right now.

As for Obama I really doubt this so-called "stimulus package" will be in any way decisive and will basically only add to our staggering debt and further weaken the dollar.

What do you think?


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: zorbman]
    #9748615 - 02/06/09 09:29 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I agree Zorb. The problem as I see it is corruption. The crooks (all of them) will find ways to use this money for everything but stimulus just like the last handout.

I do agree with Zapp that if we put these fucks into real prisons with real criminal sentences to be girlfriends to large guys named Tiny, we would see some kind of turnaround here. As long as we consider harming and stealing from the average (uneducated) person not a real crime then all this political and financial bullshit will continue.:shrug: The system is basically corrupt and it seems to be human nature or at least human culture.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: Icelander]
    #9748776 - 02/06/09 10:02 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I agree Zorb. The problem as I see it is corruption. The crooks (all of them) will find ways to use this money for everything but stimulus just like the last handout.




Our so called "public servants" are basically in full cover-your-ass mode. The public hasn't yet figured out that the game is already over and our government's corporate paymasters have ordered it to loot the treasury for them to save their asses while making it look like they are actually doing something to fix the problem.

The public is too economically illiterate and apathetic to even realize or care what is really happening.

In my opinion the die has already been cast and the only question remaining is who will be the winners and who will be the losers.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblememes
Blessed


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: zorbman]
    #9749132 - 02/06/09 11:08 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:

What do you think?



I think they're doing the best they can.  When the TARP was passed our main problem was bank's balance sheets - so we allocated hundreds of billions to help the banks shore 'em up.  Whoops, that didn't work.


Now there's this stimulus - and (as I said before with the TARP)  it's either a: pass it and hope for the best, or b: don't pass it and see how the chips fall.  Now, I think there is little debate over what our country needs:  fiscal stimulus spent on infrastructure projects that would generate long-term positive gains (whether through rents or efficient production/transportation/movement).  The problem with this bullshit economic recover plan is that 60% of it (arbitrary number, just pulled it out of my ass) is garbage that does nothing - like nearly 1,000,000,000 for coupons to help people convert their TVs from analog to digital.  WHAT THE FUCK - what a waste of fucking time & money.


Is corruption happening?  Yep.
Are our representatives looking out for their own asses when they vote on these measures?  Yep.

Remember:

Democracy is not that great of a form of government - there's sooooo much shit that can be manipulated... It just happens to be better than all the other forms currently in existance.
---------------------------------------------------------

bahhhhhhh i just want this shit to be overwith.  I tell ya' what - it's going to be very interesting to see the paradigm shift in the way Americans live their lives.  I for one know that once I enter the professional world I'll be saving/investing (low-risk) a VAST proportion of my income, since I've seen first hand how people can be fucked if they live beyond their means.

On an unrelated note, I saw a funny thing on the news earlier.  Some economist or analyst was talking about how "Everyone was worried for so long that China could cause the end of our existance by simply calling in their debt", but all America had to do to scare China is propose a "Buy American" campaign.  Apparently China is freaking out right now at the prospect of demand from the US falling even worse.  ------ DOn't know why I decided to type that up, just made me chuckle.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblememes
Blessed


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: memes]
    #9749223 - 02/06/09 11:32 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Actually, I just happened to log on to dismal.com (still have a subscription) and there was an article talking about the Fed's balance sheet.  Here's the text.

Quote:

Fed Lets Some Air Out of Its Balance Sheet
Skip to next entry

The Federal Reserve's balance sheet is shrinking as financial market conditions slowly improve and year-end funding needs fade. Assets on the Fed's balance sheet declined by $76 billion to $1.85 trillion. This was the fifth consecutive decline and puts assets held by the Fed at their lowest level since October. The Fed's balance sheet has declined 16% from its peak in early November. With traditional monetary policy sidelined, the central bank will continue to use its balance sheet as its primary weapon to counteract the financial panic and deep recession.


A $78 billion drop in the Fed's currency swap lines was the major catalyst behind the decline in the size of the balance sheet. Meanwhile, banks borrowed less from most of the Fed's lending facilities. Borrowing from both the discount window and the Primary Dealer Credit Facility declined in the week ending February 4. Holdings of the Commercial Paper Funding Facility increased by $10 billion to $258 billion. The Fed provided $17 billionin credit through its asset-backed commercial paper money-market mutual fund liquidity facility.


The decline in the Fed's balance sheet is consistent with the gradual improvement in financial market conditions. The TED spread has narrowed sharply over the past several months to where it was before the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers. Although they remain elevated, the VIX and A2/P2 spreads are below their financial panic highs.


The improvement in financial markets is encouraging, but they are still not operating properly. Therefore, the central bank will remain on high alert and act quickly and forcefully to help financial markets improve further. The Fed recognizes that a stable financial market is a prerequisite for a self-sustaining recovery.


Earlier this week, the Fed announced the extension of lending facilities scheduled to expire in April. By extending its programs, the Fed is committing to keeping interest rates at historic lows for the foreseeable future. More lending is needed to help financial conditions improve more quickly. Further, the decline in consumer prices is complicating matters for the Fed, as it is increasing real interest rates.






sorry i went a little trigger-happy on the bold/italics/underlining.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Fed's balance sheet. [Re: memes]
    #9749549 - 02/06/09 12:46 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I'll be saving/investing (low-risk) a VAST proportion of my income, since I've seen first hand how people can be fucked if they live beyond their means.


Right on! I did this very thing and retired at 54 owning my home and yet never working full time and never making near $20 an hour at my best job. I took advantage of every break I could find and didn't get caught in the consumer trap. I made money by not spending it on worthless crap which includes meaningless social spending. I have always had most of what I want and everything I need and never really owed a cent to anyone.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: geokills, automan
3,290 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 0 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.023 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 13 queries.