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InvisibleAfroshroomerican
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Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 891
Loc: Pennsylvania
Auto-Tune
    #9495412 - 12/25/08 11:27 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Am I the only one that is irked by the proliferation of Auto-Tune?  So many singers of different genres are now using it to correct their pitch imperfections.  I understand that no one will be pitch perfect, but auto-tune has become so sophisticated that it can make even the most tone-deaf person sound half-way decent. 

Sadly, most people think Auto-tune is a "sound for the new era" and don't realize that many people who cannot sing are being passed off as vocalists.  Prior to 2000, you either could sing or you couldn't; effects were limited.  Often, an artist would sound nearly the same live as they did on the CD you had purchased.  This is no longer the case. 

People using this:
Virtually all emo/punk bands. (especially males)
Rappers (particularly those that "sing")
Country singers (mainly the banal ones)
Pop stars (all who can't sing live--most today)
Rock (Nickleback and Linkin' Park are notorious for it)

  Sometimes the singer/rapper is so off that the auto-tuning creates a distinct, robotic sound; however, in many cases, mediocre singers can achieve Stevie Wonder/Freddie Mercury status with the affect going unnoticed.

  Anyone else notice a serious dearth in good live-performers b/c of auto-tune?

Link to auto-tune info: http://www.hometracked.com/2008/02/05/auto-tune-abuse-in-pop-music-10-examples/


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"We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools."

~Martin Luther King Jr.~

<passitbobbie> if I just showed you a closeup of my ass
<passitbobbie> youd think it was female

"You owe errrbody up in here an apology fow youwe shit, HO!" - classic

Edited by Afroshroomerican (12/25/08 11:29 PM)

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InvisibleTalking Head
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Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 1,080
Re: Auto-Tune [Re: Afroshroomerican]
    #9495704 - 12/26/08 12:46 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, that stuff just pisses me off.


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pt:    n  u  m  b  e  r  s  c  a  n  a  l  s  o  b  e  u
CT(a): BH AT CW CE KI LI LT KE AE BH AE KW LT AW CE KI AT
pt:    s  e  d  a  s  c  o  o  r  d  i  n  a  t  e  s
CT(a): LT KI KT AE LT KE AW AW LI KT BI BH AE LE KI LT
:docbrown:    :realawe:                :realpacman:

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Invisibleidiotek
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: Talking Head]
    #9496269 - 12/26/08 07:02 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I'm pretty sure the same guy who came up with that shit also pioneered the way for Guitar Hero.  We can thank him for single-handedly ruining a lot of good things about music.

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Offlinein the sleeve
Red Spectral Skywalker
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Registered: 12/23/08
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: idiotek]
    #9496742 - 12/26/08 10:40 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

people have been using autotune for years, a lot of times so subtly that nobody really notices. it's used a lot for live pop music, to ensure that the audience gets a good performance for their money. it's cheap, but it's how things work. :shrug:
i use autotune in my music, but mostly for voice mangling. i know i can't sing, i don't try. :grin:

i kinda really dig the robotic-ness of it. the more robotic and unnatural it sounds, the more warm it makes me feel.

Edited by in the sleeve (12/26/08 10:51 AM)

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Offlinegeedorah
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: Afroshroomerican]
    #9496769 - 12/26/08 10:48 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I think the robotic sound that a lot of rappers have is on purpose, but as far as using it to cover up an inability to sing it's too bad especially when it's used to such an extreme.

I don't think auto-tune is the death of quality live performance unless you're really interested in culture driven pop music.

The vocalist is just another instrument in all those examples. You could switch out the person and they'd all sell just the same.

How do you feel about other instrument using a similar technology. Drummers use triggers to clean up sounds. You can edit any instruments track for days and it wouldn't sound anything like a live performance.


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Offlinein the sleeve
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: geedorah]
    #9496791 - 12/26/08 10:53 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

geedorah said:
I think the robotic sound that a lot of rappers have is on purpose, but as far as using it to cover up an inability to sing it's too bad especially when it's used to such an extreme.

I don't think auto-tune is the death of quality live performance unless you're really interested in culture driven pop music.

The vocalist is just another instrument in all those examples. You could switch out the person and they'd all sell just the same.

How do you feel about other instrument using a similar technology. Drummers use triggers to clean up sounds. You can edit any instruments track for days and it wouldn't sound anything like a live performance.





mmm thank you, you covered everything i'm too baked to get into haha

Edited by in the sleeve (12/26/08 10:54 AM)

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InvisibleAfroshroomerican
Oprah's Minion
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Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 891
Loc: Pennsylvania
Re: Auto-Tune [Re: in the sleeve]
    #9499269 - 12/26/08 08:58 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

in the sleeve said:
Quote:

geedorah said:
I think the robotic sound that a lot of rappers have is on purpose, but as far as using it to cover up an inability to sing it's too bad especially when it's used to such an extreme.

I don't think auto-tune is the death of quality live performance unless you're really interested in culture driven pop music.

The vocalist is just another instrument in all those examples. You could switch out the person and they'd all sell just the same.

How do you feel about other instrument using a similar technology. Drummers use triggers to clean up sounds. You can edit any instruments track for days and it wouldn't sound anything like a live performance.





mmm thank you, you covered everything i'm too baked to get into haha




  Nonetheless, this technology did not exist a long time ago.  Frank Sinatra, Stevie Wonder, Mariah Cary, Celine Dion, Whitney Houston, Freddie Mercury etc could deliver A Capella performances with near perfect pitch and intonation.  Auto-tune is fairly recent and is the successor of other less-refined technologies such as  the vocoder. 

  Instrumentalists/vocalists of the early ages were pretty much on their own.  No matter how you put it, using these devices is admitting that you lack the talent to deliver the performance you desire.  And to a keen ear, its use is very noticeable (even for "good" singers). 

And rappers are using it on purpose in order to develop a "new" sound while covering up their vocal ineptness.  Rappers are now singers?  Bullshit. T-pain can't sing nor can Kanye:


I miss the days of MTV unplugged and other series that simply featured the artist and their instruments.  It was undeniable talent.  Now, it's dubious. 

The attack-time on auto-tune is getting very very swift.  This is why it is being employed in even LIVE perfomances now.  Back in the day, you had to cue a sound engineer or have a back-tape and hope it didn't skip (mill-vanili style).  Now, auto-tune corrects your off-keyness

Lastly, it's cool if the person is admittedly a bad singer, but most of these people (especially Kanye) think they can sing.


--------------------
"We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools."

~Martin Luther King Jr.~

<passitbobbie> if I just showed you a closeup of my ass
<passitbobbie> youd think it was female

"You owe errrbody up in here an apology fow youwe shit, HO!" - classic

Edited by Afroshroomerican (12/26/08 08:59 PM)

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Invisiblesleepy
zZzZzZzZz
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Registered: 01/17/05
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: Afroshroomerican]
    #9499489 - 12/26/08 09:31 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

wow, your disappointed in NICKELBACK!!!!!!????  wake up dude.

just listen to real music, problem solved.

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InvisibleSunny
free-ballin
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Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 12,350
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: Afroshroomerican]
    #9501446 - 12/27/08 09:44 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I've heard several professionals, and a producer talk about how there's an entire generation of musicians/bands that simple can't play because of how modern technology has allowed them to fix nearly everything in post-production.

In truth, there's no replacement for good song writing. Shortcuts are few and far between in music, just practice until you don't suck so much.


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WAFFLEZZ!!!11!!!1!!!1!!!!

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OfflineBoneMan
Shrimpin ain't easy
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Registered: 02/09/05
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: Afroshroomerican]
    #9501585 - 12/27/08 10:36 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Wow I was under the impression that tone correction took some processing time. I didn't know it could be used in live performance now! Wow. I guess its for the better though, because a vocalist who sounds perfect on a record and terrible in live performance would really disappoint the audience, and probably really hurt ticket sales and concert attendance.  The more the music industry progresses, the less talented you have to be to "make it".  Often it seems like some of the most famous artists are the least talented out of all their peers.  Its incredible how many people are conditioned into liking such terrible music lately.  But good music will never die and real musicians who play real instruments and have real talent will always be around.  Music is one of humanity's deepest passions, and there will always be people who respect it enough to do it well.

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InvisibleTalking Head
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Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 1,080
Re: Auto-Tune *DELETED* [Re: BoneMan]
    #9502093 - 12/27/08 12:57 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by Talking Head

Reason for deletion: asdfasdfasdf



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pt:    n  u  m  b  e  r  s  c  a  n  a  l  s  o  b  e  u
CT(a): BH AT CW CE KI LI LT KE AE BH AE KW LT AW CE KI AT
pt:    s  e  d  a  s  c  o  o  r  d  i  n  a  t  e  s
CT(a): LT KI KT AE LT KE AW AW LI KT BI BH AE LE KI LT
:docbrown:    :realawe:                :realpacman:

Outer Space Radio Network

Gcv Ujkv

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Invisibletak
geo's henchman
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: Talking Head]
    #9502669 - 12/27/08 02:29 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Exposed?
People listen to his music, if that is what you mean.

People somehow have this holier than thou attitude towards genre's or people they dislike. That is your opinion, and well, its good you have one but doesn't make it worth shit really.

Auto-tune has been used for decades and is great technology. I think some people overdo the whole thing, but music is music. No one bashes on mozart for never having in tune acapellas, and no one bashes on old school freestyles for not having enough classical instruments. It is music, its not rocket science and there are no rules that so many people seem to think exist.

There will always be the "real" or "underground" or whatever compared to the people in the limelight. There will always be better singers, better instrument players, better producers, etc. If you don't like something, I recommend not listening to it instead of trying to "expose" them for who they "really are." That just makes me LOL and pee in my boxers at the same time. If you are tired of the airplay they get, maybe try convincing other people to listen to better music and start a revolution. If they don't want to because they are dumb and out of tune with quality then its time to realize that the world doesn't revolve around you. Not to be a dick, but no one likes the music I listen to or produce, its a very niche market and everyone around me listens to everything produced by t-wayne. They might have control of the market, and I dislike their monopoly of it, but they obviously know how to rock a club.

On a side note, anyone been following the Celemony Melodyne Direct Note Access? It's supposed to come out early 2009, and is full featured note correction like AutoTune/Melodyne except it can pitch shift individual notes inside a chord. I wonder how well this will actually work, and if the video's were not doctored or used easy samples to process. If it works as they say, it will be some next level shit.

Oh, and you don't need vocal processing for live pop performances. Just record it good once in the studio and do what you need to do and turn the microphone off on stage. Done.


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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.

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Offlinegeedorah
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: tak]
    #9502753 - 12/27/08 02:44 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

If you don't like something, I recommend not listening to it




Truth.

Afro: For someone who is a fan of great singers why are you not listening to the truly great singers that are around?  Why waste the energy?


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Offlinetempingasashaman
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: geedorah]
    #9503390 - 12/27/08 05:00 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

good thread.

Shit's wack, and the people who use it are even worse.

If you can't sing in tune you aren't a singer. god god dammit dammit


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the greatest use of life is to spend it on something that will outlast it

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Invisibletak
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: tempingasashaman]
    #9503401 - 12/27/08 05:03 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I guess it boils down to what they are trying to do with their music.

I don't see any need to sing in tune if you can correct it in a studio and don't plan on singing live.

If you are a performance singer, it's not like auto-tune is going to help your live performance anyways.

Maybe I am just missing something.


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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.

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Offlinetempingasashaman
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: tak]
    #9503445 - 12/27/08 05:13 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

tak said:
I don't see any need to sing in tune if you can correct it in a studio and don't plan on singing live.



But don't you see how terrible this mindset is? If you can't sing in tune why sing at all? Aren't you just embarrassing yourself?


Seriously, it's not that hard to sing in tune if you have any ear at all. If you don't have an ear you shouldn't be in the studio/on the stage.

Using the studio to cover up mistakes is NOT how it should be utilized. It should be used to bring out the best in you, not cover up how much you fail.

Does no one give a shit about musicianship anymore?


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the greatest use of life is to spend it on something that will outlast it

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Offlinegeedorah
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: tak]
    #9503675 - 12/27/08 06:13 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I think the OP is upset because artists of now are getting recognition without having the vocal talent of musicians past. Which is hard to argue because not every professionally trained musician makes it "big". Luck and determination (among other qualities) seem to be the better paths to take post-internet.

It really all depends where you place your ear to the ground. IMO Brian Eno has more talent in his eyelid than all of the artists in the original post and he has used autotune in innovative ways to create some amazing songs. Maynard of Tool is another +positive+ example. Most people would rather fuck the dixie chicks.

Don't let TV and Radio ruin/dictate your listening experience. Grab hold of the backbone and start downloading music. You'll find the voices you are looking for.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: geedorah]
    #9503930 - 12/27/08 07:10 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anyone else notice a serious dearth in good live-performers b/c of auto-tune?




Anyone who will use auto tune was already shit before the advent of it. Popular music is absoloute crap, end of.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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OfflineJeffedelic
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: Grapefruit]
    #9504010 - 12/27/08 07:27 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

As long as the song writing is there I don't mind auto tune. In my mind, its in the same field as every punk/garage/grunge/rock band using power chords. Anybody can play power chords a day or two after picking up a guitar but if the songwriting is there the songs are still quality.


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"It's hard to stay mad, when there's so much beauty in the world." -Lester Burnham

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Offlinebadphish
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Re: Auto-Tune [Re: Afroshroomerican]
    #9505210 - 12/28/08 01:21 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)


Watch this.


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The oval office and the lobby probably listen to Fugazi,
singin' "this one's ours lets take another",
and then they dance away clean like Savion Glover.

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