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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
Loc: red earth painted with mi...
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: GrowingVines]
    #949812 - 10/10/02 04:01 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

you control your reality...your future


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: CleverName]
    #951165 - 10/10/02 10:06 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

But it's definately useful having government policy on your side too. If the corporations had to pay decent wages they certainly wouldn't be making as much profit as they do now, they'd have to work for a change.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: Grav]
    #951394 - 10/10/02 11:39 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I don't see how being from another country is any excuse to be stuck in a minimum wage job forever. There are a ton of people from overseas who come over here and make bank. And there are a ton of people from here in the USA who have minimum wage jobs their whole lives. So how is it not the person's fault/choice to have it their whole life?


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Anonymous

Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: Sclorch]
    #951396 - 10/10/02 11:41 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

LOL, that's some funny shit dude.


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Offlinevaporbrains
Cub Scout

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 539
Loc: ghetto# 03479
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: ]
    #951872 - 10/11/02 05:57 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

working as a waiter for tips is pretty much like slavery. i don't really understand how corporations can get away with paying thier employees 3.15 an hour and putting the burden of paying the rest of my paycheck on the customers..ahem..i mean "guests." guests who pay, of course, so not really guests at all...actually..customers. all this double speak is sickening. my labor costs less than a can of beans. fuck corporate America.


--------------------
All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: vaporbrains]
    #951973 - 10/11/02 06:47 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

He who chooses to stay at a job is not a slave to anyone or anything but his own lack of ambition. Too many people think that the world owes them a living. If you don't like your situation, change it, do not blame another for your timidity at the prospect of having to create your own future.

If you believe that your life situation is dependant upon the actions of others you will always be dependant on the actions of others. If you believe that you are responsible for your own existence, you will begin to act accordingly. If you examine the lives of people who are successful you will understand that it is not the complainers and finger pointers who get to such a position but those who are willing to take personal responsiblity and action regardless of the circumstances in which life has placed them.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleVSOPXO
Cognacaholic

Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 1,751
Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: Evolving]
    #952082 - 10/11/02 07:28 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

If your stuck in a min wage job for your life that's your own fault.




try being poor your whole life,even if you do bust your ass all day there are plenty of people who want that same scholorship you want.You don't get it,what are you supposed to do? You can't advance the only options are hustling and minimum wage.People thinks it's so easy but if they were in the same situation they probably couldn't do half the shit under those circumstances. That there was spoken like a true richboy.I'm gonna leave it at that beacause regardless what I say it won't change your mind, if you truly think poor folks are poor by there own chioce it will take being in the same situation for you to see.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: VSOPXO]
    #952318 - 10/11/02 08:42 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You can't advance the only options are hustling and minimum wage.People thinks it's so easy but if they were in the same situation they probably couldn't do half the shit under those circumstances. That there was spoken like a true richboy.

No one said it was easy. But it is possible.

I left home two months after my last year of high school. My parents gave me an ancient black and white TV, an old kitchen table, some kitchen chairs, and their best wishes. That was it. I had no car, $80 in the bank and the clothes on my back, and a minimum wage job that I'd been working at for exactly three weeks. I never made it to university -- too busy working.

Fifteen years later I was hauling down a six figure salary (just BARELY six figures, mind you) and was on the fast track for Vice President of the third-largest computer company in Canada. I was getting at least four or five "headhunting" calls from competitors each month and would have been a VP within two years if I had chosen to stay.

It wasn't just me, either. The top salesman in the country (one of mine) was a hick kid from Arnprior who finished high school but couldn't write a business letter to save his life. My secretary had to edit everything he ever sent out, and it took me almost a year to train him to stop referring to corporate heads as "you guys" during product presentations. At the time I left, he was making close to double my salary.

My best support rep started with us when I hired him as the stockroom boy. His previous experience was literally flipping burgers at Mickey D's. Five years later (when I left Canada) he was managing the support team.

At one point I had just under 40 people reporting to me. There were exactly three who had attended university, and only two of them had graduated. One of them was my secretary, the other was the switchboard operator. The lowest paid employee of mine was the switchboard operator. She was making over $30k a year when I left in late 1987.

Was I "poor all my life"? I never thought so, but my parents never had enough money to buy a car. I never got more than $1.00 a week as allowance. We got tiny color TV the year before I moved out. I had the world's oldest coaster brake bicycle because there wasn't enough spare cash in the house to buy even the cheesiest ten-speed. I can guaran-damn-tee you that I was nowhere close to being a "true richboy".

If you're smart enough and presentable enough to land a minimum wage job, you have all it takes to move up to one that pays double minimum wage, or triple, or ten times that. Will it happen overnight? Nope. Will it happen without effort on your part? Nope.

You have to make it happen.

pinky







--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: Phred]
    #952542 - 10/11/02 10:11 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Bravo.

There is one difference though. For all the egalitarian well-wishing and hand wringing in the world there is a difference that cannot be overcome, smarts. It is one thing to say that anyone can make it, and for the most part I agree with that. But it is another thing entirely to say that everyone is educatible, and I am not referring to accreditation. Many of the poor lack the intelligence to advance. It sucks, but that's reality. Which is a reason that they will always be with us.

Cheers,


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: ]
    #952629 - 10/11/02 10:40 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

For all the egalitarian well-wishing and hand wringing in the world there is a difference that cannot be overcome, smarts.

Yes, this is true, as far as it goes. But there are a TON of smart under-achievers, and a TON of not-so-smart overachievers. Of course one must possess a certain minimum amount of intelligence, but it has been my observation that above-average ambition, (not even ambition, really, just the willingness to DO what is necessary) is a much greater determining factor in how far one goes in life than above-average or even exceptional intelligence.

My point is that almost everyone CAN do better than they choose to do, and that to blame one's station in life on the fact that one's parents were poor is nothing but a copout.

pinky


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Anonymous

Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: Phred]
    #952638 - 10/11/02 10:42 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Thomas Alva Edison?


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: Phred]
    #952775 - 10/11/02 11:29 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Nah, the "work hard enough" theory assumes there's an infinite amount of wealth available. There isn't. Everyone isn't going to make it. To say that everyone who doesn't make it simply "hasn't worked hard enough" is crap.

There was a vast amount of effort expended in the 80's destroying workers rights, shifting work to slave labour countries - "globalisation". The people in charge know it isn't a case of "working hard", that's why they put so much effort into destroying unions, driving down wages, destroying working conditions, evading environmental issues. It's a case of taking as big a slice of the pie as you can.

I've earned $200,000 plus for the last 10 years and I certainly wouldn't say I know more about hard work than a 10 year old working in south east asian Nike factory. Not even close. And the hardest work I've ever done was when I was earning 8 grand a year. I've met managers earning a million plus and they wouldn't know hard work if it kicked them in the knackers.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Edited by Alex123 (10/11/02 05:21 PM)


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: Xlea321]
    #952970 - 10/11/02 06:08 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

Nah, the "work hard enough" theory assumes there's an infinite amount of wealth available. There isn't.



Where does wealth come from? People create it. Economics is not a zero sum game, you are operating under a common fallacy.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: Evolving]
    #953186 - 10/11/02 08:16 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Where does wealth come from? People create it.

It seems the U.S. government is creating wealth at a rate of 1,140 million per day.

The Outstanding Public Debt as of 12 Oct 2002 at 12:08:52 AM GMT is: 6,238,914,755,015.61

The estimated population of the United States is 288,566,385
so each citizen's share of this debt is $21,620.38. more info here http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/



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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: chodamunky]
    #953260 - 10/11/02 08:47 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Sarcasm noted. The government is mortgaging the future income of it's citizens, many who haven't even been born yet. THis is a crime.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: Evolving]
    #953396 - 10/11/02 10:04 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Economics is not a zero sum game, you are operating under a common fallacy.

You're quick, I'll give you that.  You beat me to it. :tongue:

Alex, float me a loan. :tongue:

Cheers,


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Anonymous

Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: Buddha5254]
    #953930 - 10/12/02 01:35 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)



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InvisibleBuddha5254
addict
Registered: 04/23/00
Posts: 532
Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: Anonymous]
    #954209 - 10/12/02 03:08 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

That's what I call some healthy debate.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: Evolving]
    #954249 - 10/12/02 03:20 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

you are operating under a common fallacy.

So you believe if we all worked hard enough everyone on the planet would be millionaires? All 6 billion of us?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: Slavery vs. Min. Wage Jobs [Re: Xlea321]
    #954370 - 10/12/02 04:01 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

As a matter of fact, I have a job right now that pays minimum wage plus like $0.80.  We'll just call it minimum wage  :grin: I have no college degree.  But I absolutely will not have a minimum wage next year because I am sick of this bullshit.  So right now, I am taking steps to change it.  If one year from now I still have this job, it will be only because I didn't take any steps to change it.  So here is someone who  has a minimum wage job claiming that it  is your own fault to be stuck with one, I say for any substantial period longer than you want it let alone your whole life.


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