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san pedro5
Stranger

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police seized spore syringes
#9442998 - 12/16/08 10:48 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have a friend in arizona who ordered some syringes off the internet and then got a call from USPS a couple days later saying the police had his package. Has anyone had this happen before. Can he go to the station and potentially pick the syringes up because they are legal in AZ.
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AltecLansing
Trafalgar Square Pigeon Fiasco



Registered: 07/11/08
Posts: 950
Loc: Michigan
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: san pedro5]
#9443205 - 12/16/08 11:38 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Call it a loss, say he doesn't know anything about it. It's bullshit, but does he want to try proving that they were exclusively for microscopy?
-------------------- I don't use jelly.
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Simms
Fuckwit

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1,109
Loc: Somewhere in Europe
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: AltecLansing]
#9443258 - 12/16/08 11:51 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, I don't know about your country, but I would go and pick it up.
They cannot put you into jail or fine you because of this. For that, they need to prove you plan to grow them. You can just say you are only going to watch the syringe sit on a window or something.. a dumb excuse. They will be sleazy bastards and try to talk you in in all kinds of ways, by any means don't let them do anything to package unless they show you some exact warrant or paragraph from law (which I doubt exists...). They might not want to give you the package, so you say "So.. unless I have broken any laws or anything, can i take my package and go now?" If they say no, it would probably be because of pre caution of a possible crime, but for further arrest, they need proof which they haven't. Just don't order anything more suspicious like grow bags or something or they might have proof to get a warrant for home search.
--------------------
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AltecLansing
Trafalgar Square Pigeon Fiasco



Registered: 07/11/08
Posts: 950
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Simms]
#9443345 - 12/16/08 12:14 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Simms said: Well, I don't know about your country, but I would go and pick it up.
They cannot put you into jail or fine you because of this. For that, they need to prove you plan to grow them. You can just say you are only going to watch the syringe sit on a window or something.. a dumb excuse. They will be sleazy bastards and try to talk you in in all kinds of ways, by any means don't let them do anything to package unless they show you some exact warrant or paragraph from law (which I doubt exists...). They might not want to give you the package, so you say "So.. unless I have broken any laws or anything, can i take my package and go now?" If they say no, it would probably be because of pre caution of a possible crime, but for further arrest, they need proof which they haven't. Just don't order anything more suspicious like grow bags or something or they might have proof to get a warrant for home search.
I doubt they'll be like "Well, glad that was cleared up and this fine young man can now study those spores microscopically. We're not going to remember his name or address, and are going to move on to real crimes." That's not how cops work in the U.S. I'm not trying to make you paranoid, I'm just saying that if it were me I'd forfeit the package and call the $20 a loss to save trouble. They aren't going to launch an investigation, but why risk attention for $20? Go for a P.O. box next time, or a U.P.S. store box. It's my policy to not order suspicious things to places where suspicious activities go down though.
-------------------- I don't use jelly.
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Simms
Fuckwit

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Posts: 1,109
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: AltecLansing]
#9443402 - 12/16/08 12:23 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok, so, what are they going to do then? Thats all they are doing, creating fear, so that you could snap.
Actually it is more suspicious if you don't go and pick it up, because then you basically know its a crime and next time you order spores, you can't go and pick them up either.
Edited by Simms (12/16/08 12:27 PM)
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: AltecLansing]
#9443423 - 12/16/08 12:26 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Do not pick it up. Do not say ANYTHING. If anyone calls, say you have nothing to say. If anyone comes to the door, don't answer. If anyone approaches you, give them your name and say nothing. Say you do not wish to be questioned.
Do not pick it up. Do you know the law? No. You don't know if they can get you for shipping a syringe in some manner. You don't know if your state or the feds have some vague biological material shipping requirements.
I would clean up my place and forget about it. It cannot be worth it. If you even talk to them you give yourself a chance to get asked uncomfortable questions. You lie and you could go to jail.
Will they likely do anything? Hopefully not, but you have no way of knowing.
Say nothing, consent to nothing, and forget about it. And clean your place. No matter what happens, say nothing but "I don't know what's going on, I want a lawyer and I don't consent to be questioned/searched"
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Simms
Fuckwit

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1,109
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: johnm214]
#9443448 - 12/16/08 12:30 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I hope that last post was a joke. People cannot be in such a fear. police state? If spores are LEGAL, then no crime is being commited. however they might do a house search on you one day, in which case you just have to be clever and order spores for a friends name who isn't going to grow them. Then he can go and pick them up and not lie. They will ask friends name, but you just say you don't remember his exact name, it was this dude...
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tak
geo's henchman




Registered: 11/20/00
Posts: 3,776
Loc: nowhereland
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Simms]
#9443476 - 12/16/08 12:35 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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How is the previous post a joke?
Just because something is legal doesn't make you free to spit in their faces. Yeah, maybe if it was for microscopy and he has no intention of growing.
My guess is that he wants to grow mushrooms, and telling the police you are growing mushrooms is not a good idea no matter how bad you want to flex your rights. Living in fear is not cool, but living in jail is even worse.
Like he said, picking up the package shows that you ordered it and it belongs to you, etc. If you don't claim it, theres no proof you had any knowledge of it or its contents.
Why would you suggest he put himself in a situation where he could possibly face jail time?
A couple wrong words slip out with fear tactics, and they could lock him up and throw away the key.
-------------------- The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.
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Simms
Fuckwit

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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: tak]
#9443503 - 12/16/08 12:41 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Who said anything about spitting in their faces?
You are just simply following the law, like they do. You are not getting spores for growing mushrooms, you are getting them for microscopical study. Psilocybine mushroom spores are very good for studying because they are dark and can be easily seen as a pack under a microscope, they are actually the easiest to get online.
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AltecLansing
Trafalgar Square Pigeon Fiasco



Registered: 07/11/08
Posts: 950
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: tak]
#9443509 - 12/16/08 12:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Simms, do you live in the states? That post wasn't a joke. Let's assume that the spores had accidentally germinated in the syringe, and the cops saw it and are waiting to nab the op for receiving narcotics in the mail.
In this country there are a lot of hypotheticals regarding the law, and almost invariably the rule of thumb is "Don't risk it."
Send it somewhere not connected to your name next time.
-------------------- I don't use jelly.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: AltecLansing]
#9444174 - 12/16/08 02:38 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Moral of the story is never never use UPS
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Ojom
member




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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Stonehenge]
#9444949 - 12/16/08 04:49 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Moral of the story is never never use UPS
UPS has nothing to do with this story. The OP stated the USPS aka United States Postal Service called his friend to notify him the police had seized his package.
Considering that the police allowed the post office to notify the intended recipient of their seizure of the package the police aren't likely to do anything with it. If they were they would have done so before the recipient was tipped off.
It may take a warrant to search/seize first class mail, but believe me, it is not at all difficult for the police to get a warrant. It is upsettingly easy if you ask me. All it takes is a phone call, and they'll have a warrant in 30 min or less.
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distgre1
...



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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: AltecLansing]
#9445153 - 12/16/08 05:28 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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How do they know you ordered it? And trust me, nothing is going to happen.
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supra
computerEnthusiast
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: distgre1]
#9445182 - 12/16/08 05:34 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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if they are legal in your state, i would personally go pick them up. They already have your fuckin address, so if they were going to do anything about it (which they cant if legal) they would have. They are breaking the law by confiscating a package they have no right to confiscate, unless it is falling under a dangerous items rule or something.
If they were to ask why you want them, just don't answer, you don't have to explain anything to them or prove anything to them. Just say, 'i am here to get my package'. when they ask about why you want them simply tell them, 'its my package, i would like it so i can get going'.
Anyways, thats what i would do.
peace
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: supra]
#9445199 - 12/16/08 05:36 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Supra, you are right but I'm still right in that you should avoid UPS.
How the hell did they have probable cause to open the package? Unless syringes are illegal, go pick them up. They are legal by prescription only in some states so watch out.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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No Agenda
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Stonehenge]
#9445853 - 12/16/08 07:33 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think it would be best to be safe in this matter. Sure you should be able to go down there and pick up but it's not even remotely worth it. Unless you have the extra money to higher an attorney in case something bad happens.
Honestly I would refrain from any illegal activities after this happened. If they are holding your package then they must have a warrant to do so. If they went through the trouble of getting a warrant then they are surely going to keep an eye on you. They have a plan to charge you with something. This is just the first step.
Or you could listen to everyone who says it is perfectly legal and they can't do anything to you. That's if you don't value your freedom anyway.
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: san pedro5]
#9446180 - 12/16/08 08:31 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
san pedro5 said: I have a friend in arizona who ordered some syringes off the internet and then got a call from USPS a couple days later saying the police had his package. Has anyone had this happen before. Can he go to the station and potentially pick the syringes up because they are legal in AZ.
Quote:
SUSPECTED PSILOCYBE MUSHROOM SPORES IN DETROIT, MICHIGAN The DEA North Central Laboratory (Chicago, Illinois) recently received three glass vials containing a clear solution, suspected Psilocybe mushroom spores in water. The exhibits were originally contained in three syringes, and were purchased in Detroit, Michigan by agents from the DEA Detroit Division (details withheld in accordance with Microgram policy). The total net weight and volume of the samples was 35.9 grams (40.0 milliliters). A growth cycle was initiated for all three samples in order to determine whether or not Psilocybe mushrooms could be produced. A standard underground procedure was used (obtained from an Internet site; details withheld in accordance with Microgram policy). Mycelium growth was observed after about 3 weeks; however, only two small mushrooms grew (which were harvested after 78 days). Analysis of methanolic extracts of the two mushrooms by GC/MS indicated no controlled substances, suggesting that the mushrooms were not Psilocybe mushrooms. It is unclear whether the sale was a scam, or if the solution was contaminated during the transfer from the syringes to the vials, or if there was some other unknown problem with the solution or cultivation procedures. This is the first time that a mushroom grow has been performed at the North Central Laboratory.
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Chemy]
#9446218 - 12/16/08 08:37 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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78 days...fucking newbs...but i guess if they were not cubes then it may be about right. Funny they would grow them out since they were just spores which even if they were cubes, were not illegal.
peace
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mr.bixby
Routine waxes cold


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1,246
Loc: The West is the Best
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: san pedro5]
#9446322 - 12/16/08 08:55 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
san pedro5 said: I have a friend in arizona who ordered some syringes off the internet and then got a call from USPS a couple days later saying the police had his package. Has anyone had this happen before. Can he go to the station and potentially pick the syringes up because they are legal in AZ.
Consult a lawyer that knows the laws in the great state of Arizona and procede from his/her advice. Everything else is mainly just guesswork and I'd love to know what happens as this goes on.
-------------------- finality [faɪˈnælɪtɪ] n pl -ties 1. the condition or quality of being final or settled; conclusiveness. 2. a final or conclusive act Long live the Shroomery and I'm done with it.
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J3illy
Trainee

Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 3,344
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: mr.bixby]
#9447002 - 12/16/08 10:19 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Chalk it up as a loss - why is it worth trying to fight for like $20-30 worth of spores, when you could be getting yourself into hot water. Just order again from a different vendor. No, they're not illegal per se - but the cops aren't stupid and would kno you're up to something, which isn't good. By not going down there, you're making it look like maybe you didn't even order them, and it was a mistake - you do not wanna be dealing w/ the cops.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Simms]
#9447424 - 12/16/08 11:14 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Simms said: I hope that last post was a joke. People cannot be in such a fear. police state? If spores are LEGAL, then no crime is being commited. however they might do a house search on you one day, in which case you just have to be clever and order spores for a friends name who isn't going to grow them. Then he can go and pick them up and not lie. They will ask friends name, but you just say you don't remember his exact name, it was this dude...
Spores are not legal, pretty much nothing is legal. What you mean to say is that spores aren't per se illegal.
They were likely illegal in this case as drug paraphanalia or would provide evidence of an attempt.
You are betting they don't want to try and prosecute or investigate and you're betting you know the law, whcih you don't.
Are syringes legal in that state? Biological material of that type?
Even if both are yes, you still have the attempt and paraphanalia to worry about. Why the fuck would you risk your freedom over that?
By going in to get it you allow them to talk to you. Most people won't refuse questioning and will say something that is a lie or provides cause. Even if you don't you give the people a chance to say they talked to / met you and that you acted nervous and seemed shifty.
Nothing good can come of this. You have a false sense of security. By even contacting them you show the spores were things you ordered. If they are going for a raid, the fact that you attempted to pick it up is a big help. It is no longer an unknown package, it is a package you wanted to and attempted to recieve.
Do not pick it up. Do not talk to them. Your freedom isn't worth 20$.
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J3illy
Trainee

Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 3,344
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: johnm214]
#9447475 - 12/16/08 11:22 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: Spores are not legal, pretty much nothing is legal. What you mean to say is that spores aren't per se illegal.
They are absolutely legal. How do you think tons of vendors are able to openly sell them online? It's the intent or what you do w/ them that makes them illegal.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: J3illy]
#9447922 - 12/17/08 12:38 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
J3illy said:
Quote:
johnm214 said: Spores are not legal, pretty much nothing is legal. What you mean to say is that spores aren't per se illegal.
They are absolutely legal. How do you think tons of vendors are able to openly sell them online? It's the intent or what you do w/ them that makes them illegal.
Find me the law that says they are legal. That is what I mean.
Expressing ideas is legal, see the first amendment.
Spores have no such law, meaning, you can be arrested for having them. Yes, intent is needed for some laws. Some others it is not. Are syringes illegal there? Bio materical? Who knows.
The fact is by talking to them you give them evidence. That evidence can not help you.
If you are arrested or searched and found not guilty or the case is dropped, great. You might only have wasted a day or so in jail and several grand. What a victory.
I would say most people that order spores are intending to do illegal things with them, and this is all the certainty needed to charge someone, arrest them, and search their place. If you affirm you ordered them you've helped them meet this certainty. If you talk to them you give yourself a chance to lie or act shady. And you give them a chance to lie about what you said on the warrant app.
Don't get the spores. 20$ is not worth the grief even if nothing happens. And if someone wants to make something out of it, the fact they can put your statements on the warrant app. and show you wanted the spores will help immeasurably.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: mr.bixby]
#9448434 - 12/17/08 03:41 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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> Consult a lawyer that knows the laws in the great state of Arizona and procede from his/her advice.
Best advice I have seen given. Personally, if I were going to retrieve them, I would hire an attorney to do it for me.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Gojira45
Armchair Explorer


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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: J3illy]
#9449003 - 12/17/08 08:56 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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The fact is, if he goes in some way to regain the package he has made himself a 'known entity' to the police. They will ask questions - even if they have nothing to legally question him on, they will ask questions. He will answer stupidly. People always answer stupidly. And then that little light bulb will go on over the cop's head & they will note your friend's name, address, appearance, etc. in a notebook.
Forget the package, deal with the lost $$ and if ANYONE comes around/calls, etc. follow johnm214's advice.
BTW, I notice you did not mention whom shipped him the spores? I'm assuming it wasn't a shroomery vendor? They shipped it such that the USPS didn't need a warrent to inspect the package? This thing has bad idea written all over it...
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Gojira45
Armchair Explorer


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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Seuss]
#9449008 - 12/17/08 08:58 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > Consult a lawyer that knows the laws in the great state of Arizona and procede from his/her advice.
Best advice I have seen given. Personally, if I were going to retrieve them, I would hire an attorney to do it for me.
Personally, I'd accept the $20 loss. It's gonna cost a lot more to send a attorney down to the police station to get the package.
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Mastamike1118



Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 2,010
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Gojira45]
#9449096 - 12/17/08 09:30 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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where exactly do you have to pick it up at the police station? or the postal office? if its the postal office id prolly get it
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Mastamike1118]
#9449514 - 12/17/08 11:22 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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> Personally, I'd accept the $20 loss.
You are assuming $20. Some types of edible mushrooms spores can cost a lot of money.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Seuss]
#9449736 - 12/17/08 12:08 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Things are only illegal if there is a law that clearly says they are illegal. Saying 'find me a law that says it's legal' turns everything on it's head. All rights not specifically relegated to the federal government or to the states are reserved onto the people. It's in the constitution, there is your law.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Stonehenge]
#9449946 - 12/17/08 12:57 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Things are only illegal if there is a law that clearly says they are illegal. Saying 'find me a law that says it's legal' turns everything on it's head. All rights not specifically relegated to the federal government or to the states are reserved onto the people. It's in the constitution, there is your law.
Its not the people, its the people or the state, and its the state that is busting your ass, so that isn't much help. Nevertheless, while I may agree with you on some level, that's not the current state of the law. The current state is that the commerce clause alllows the fed. govenrment to do pretty much whatever they want.
Yes, things are only illegal if there is a law that clearly states they are illegal, but that isn't the issue. The issue isn't whether they are illegal, the issue is whether they are legal. What I'm saying is that they aren't per se illegal but they may still be illegal. It depends ont he circumstances, and the issue isn't dichotomous. There's legal, illegal, and depends. Pretty much everything is depends. Pretty much everything can be illegal even if they aren't per se. Criinal tools/paraphanalia statutes are a good example of the ways things that aren't per se illegal may be illegal nevertheless.
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Gojira45
Armchair Explorer


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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Seuss]
#9450006 - 12/17/08 01:12 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > Personally, I'd accept the $20 loss.
You are assuming $20. Some types of edible mushrooms spores can cost a lot of money.
Funny - your right. OP never mentioned a price... wasn't until the 4th post that $20 came up.
Still... I'd take the loss just to keep away from 5-0.
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Maverick
Lover of Earwigs!




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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Seuss]
#9450020 - 12/17/08 01:15 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > Consult a lawyer that knows the laws in the great state of Arizona and procede from his/her advice.
Best advice I have seen given. Personally, if I were going to retrieve them, I would hire an attorney to do it for me.
Usually your first consultation is free and they give you all the information you need to know, which gives you the idea on whether to go ahead or to not. Consult a lawyer if you really plan on going and picking them up.
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grewya
Gone Fishin'



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Posts: 4,260
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: J3illy]
#9450076 - 12/17/08 01:28 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I say go down there with microscope in hand and DEMAND your spores!
-------------------- Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids. - Joe Biden
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san pedro5
Stranger

Registered: 12/15/08
Posts: 3
Loc: so cal
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: J3illy]
#9450479 - 12/17/08 02:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks for all the advice my friend decided not to pick them up and he will most likely order prints as opposed to syringes in the future.
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Twiztidsage
Fungal Databaser



Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 8,089
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: tak]
#9450559 - 12/17/08 02:53 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
tak said: Just because something is legal doesn't make you free to spit in their faces.
Just because something can be used illegally doesn't make them free to spit in our faces.
I know it is a push, but MAYBE he is simply studying them. In that case the government has no right to stop him. I would pick it up as long as my house wasn't already full of fruits. Man, you paranoids would make the hippies roll over and over in their fungus-riddled graves. As long as nothing seems felonious, a bit of legal trouble is worth standing up for ones self. Protest!
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Gojira45
Armchair Explorer


Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 364
Loc: Travelling Without Moving
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: san pedro5]
#9450906 - 12/17/08 04:12 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
san pedro5 said: Thanks for all the advice my friend decided not to pick them up and he will most likely order prints as opposed to syringes in the future.
Can you provide some more details? Did he order from a known shroomery vendor? Can you find out how the package was shipped (first class, priority, etc?) My understanding is that some USPS package types require a warrant to search...
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J3illy
Trainee

Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 3,344
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: johnm214]
#9451040 - 12/17/08 04:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: Find me the law that says they are legal. That is what I mean.
There's no law that has to say they're legal. They contain no psilocybin or illegal chemicals, so they are 100% legal. Again, how do you think vendors can sell them on websites totally out in the open?
Spores have no such law, meaning, you can be arrested for having them.
They're NOT illegal. Even if I did get pulled over and arrested w/ JUST a syringe, no charges would stick. I have 100% legal spores for "microscopy", nothing illegal about it. It's the INTENT that's illegal. If I got pulled over w/ a syringe, and growbags say - there'd be intent of cultivation. But a spore syringe BY ITSELF is not illegal.
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IncredibleEdible
Stranger

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 32
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Gojira45]
#9454690 - 12/18/08 07:24 AM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gojira45 said: Can you provide some more details? Did he order from a known shroomery vendor? Can you find out how the package was shipped (first class, priority, etc?) My understanding is that some USPS package types require a warrant to search...
Yes, I'd like to know the details as well. Who they were ordered from, how big an order, shipping method, etc.
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kinderfeld11
kill your master

Registered: 12/13/08
Posts: 315
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: johnm214]
#9456296 - 12/18/08 01:59 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: Do not pick it up. Do not say ANYTHING. If anyone calls, say you have nothing to say. If anyone comes to the door, don't answer. If anyone approaches you, give them your name and say nothing. Say you do not wish to be questioned.
Do not pick it up. Do you know the law? No. You don't know if they can get you for shipping a syringe in some manner. You don't know if your state or the feds have some vague biological material shipping requirements.
I would clean up my place and forget about it. It cannot be worth it. If you even talk to them you give yourself a chance to get asked uncomfortable questions. You lie and you could go to jail.
Will they likely do anything? Hopefully not, but you have no way of knowing.
Say nothing, consent to nothing, and forget about it. And clean your place. No matter what happens, say nothing but "I don't know what's going on, I want a lawyer and I don't consent to be questioned/searched"
Enough said. That is the twisted ways in which the law works there are levels of laws, state, federal, international...you never know if this package broke one of those, just because you don't 'know' of a the law makes no difference...in fact that is probably the point. The average person has common sense with state law but once you go federal you'll have a whole new set of problems coming at you.
-------------------- Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once. Of all the wonders that I yet have heard. It seems to me most strange that men should fear; Seeing that death, a necessary end, Will come when it will come. (Julius Caesar, Act II, Scene 2).
Host of new 'Kinderfeld's Kindness' monthly contest.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: kinderfeld11]
#9457169 - 12/18/08 04:47 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'd pick them up and be mad as hell that the US mail got interfered with. File an official written complaint with the postmaster. To not pick them up indicates illegal intent. Spores are legal. Besides, they already have his name and address. If they try to charge him with paraphernalia they'll look awfully stupid in court with a non-drug fully loaded syringe. It's the same as seizing a printer refill syringe full of ink. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: RogerRabbit]
#9457220 - 12/18/08 04:55 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I'd pick them up and be mad as hell that the US mail got interfered with. File an official written complaint with the postmaster. To not pick them up indicates illegal intent. Spores are legal. Besides, they already have his name and address. If they try to charge him with paraphernalia they'll look awfully stupid in court with a non-drug fully loaded syringe. It's the same as seizing a printer refill syringe full of ink. RR
The only point I'd make is that syringes themselves are illegal some places. I'm not sure I'd make a complaint but something is funny about this whole thing. How did they know to look in it? Something is very wierd.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Srirachi
Mold Hand



Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 11,411
Loc: Fare Thee Well.
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Chemy]
#9458364 - 12/18/08 07:54 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chemy said:
Quote:
A growth cycle was initiated for all three samples in order to determine whether or not Psilocybe mushrooms could be produced. A standard underground procedure was used (obtained from an Internet site). Mycelium growth was observed after about 3 weeks; however, only two small mushrooms grew (which were harvested after 78 days). Analysis of methanolic extracts of the two mushrooms by GC/MS indicated no controlled substances, suggesting that the mushrooms were not Psilocybe mushrooms. It is unclear whether the sale was a scam, or if the solution was contaminated during the transfer from the syringes to the vials, or if there was some other unknown problem with the solution or cultivation procedures. This is the first time that a mushroom grow has been performed at the North Central Laboratory.
fucking LOL LEOs can't even do the PF tek
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Srirachi
Mold Hand



Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 11,411
Loc: Fare Thee Well.
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Srirachi]
#9458401 - 12/18/08 08:00 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Also, I'd suggest reading about my hassles before making any assumptions about how things are going to turn out.
Essentially it is the story of how "intent to cultivate" is used in a very broad way to fuck people over. People have suggested that I could have beaten this, but none of those people have law degrees, so I tend to believe the attorney I paid. He said I had a one in five chance of beating it.
EDIT: read this too
Edited by Srirachi (12/18/08 08:15 PM)
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: J3illy]
#9459968 - 12/19/08 02:09 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
J3illy said:
Quote:
johnm214 said: Find me the law that says they are legal. That is what I mean.
There's no law that has to say they're legal. They contain no psilocybin or illegal chemicals, so they are 100% legal. Again, how do you think vendors can sell them on websites totally out in the open?
Spores have no such law, meaning, you can be arrested for having them.
They're NOT illegal. Even if I did get pulled over and arrested w/ JUST a syringe, no charges would stick. I have 100% legal spores for "microscopy", nothing illegal about it. It's the INTENT that's illegal. If I got pulled over w/ a syringe, and growbags say - there'd be intent of cultivation. But a spore syringe BY ITSELF is not illegal.
You seem to not understand my statements and yours. Someone said they were legal. I said they weren't per se illegal and that there is a difference. You are making an argument that they aren't a controlled substance which doesn't show that they are legal. You are saying that they are legal in some circumstances which I agree with, not that they are legal in all.
I have no idea what point you are making with your hypothetical. Yes they can be illegal as I have allready explained. Why are you parroting arguments without rebutting my explantation? The fact that something is sold is irrelevant.
Yes a spore syringe by itself is legal. So what? This wasn't the issue, the issue was whether they legal. I said they may be legal or illegal and this determination can result in you going to jail and eating a lot of money to find out.
You will not be charged for a spore syringe by itself so I don't understand why you are making this argument.
People made a statement that the sproe syringe was legal, which isn't true. It can be both legal or illega depending on the situation. You stab someone in the eye with it and it is illegal. You intend to use it to produce controlled substances it is illegal.
The mere facts that these counterexamples exist disproves the statement that they are legal. They are a gray area and moreso than many things. If you didn't intend to state they were legal in all areas than stop using the infinitives in your sentences when refering to their legality and stop arguing against someone who is clearly observing that you did.
And in the end unless they are of the expensive varieties seuss contemplates, it is hard to see how the chance that you will be arrested or searched is worth retrieving them. And for those talking about proof, getting convicted isn't the entirety of the problems that could result from picking them up.
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J3illy
Trainee

Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 3,344
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: johnm214]
#9464254 - 12/19/08 08:32 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I made my response based on these 2 statements you made:
Quote:
-Find me the law that says they are legal. That is what I mean. -Spores have no such law, meaning, you can be arrested for having them.
My statement is that spores alone are 100% legal. But if you had them w/ cultivation supplies, as I pointed out, that's when they'd be illegal cuz of your intent. After going thru your response and seeing that you're agreeing w/ my point, then the argument is over.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: J3illy]
#9473573 - 12/21/08 04:04 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
J3illy said: I made my response based on these 2 statements you made:
Quote:
-Find me the law that says they are legal. That is what I mean. -Spores have no such law, meaning, you can be arrested for having them.
My statement is that spores alone are 100% legal. But if you had them w/ cultivation supplies, as I pointed out, that's when they'd be illegal cuz of your intent. After going thru your response and seeing that you're agreeing w/ my point, then the argument is over.
yeah, but you seem to miss a small point. Intent would mean you are commiting a crime in general, but the actual drug paraphanalia laws, for example, make the syringes illegal in this situation. That's what I mean when I say its not neccesarily legal. People sometime seem to think there is this dividing line between legal and illegal, when really you have things that are generally illegal (cocaine, but may be legal with prescription) and generally legal (a brick, but may be illegal as a criminal tool when you break someone's window).
The danger is people sometimes think if they have a legal item they can't be charged for it, which isn't true. You intend to commit a crime, or do commit a crime, with the item it is often illegal. Spore syringes even more so since the preponderant use is likely illegal (for the nonedibles).
So that's all I'm saying, that "it's legal" isn't really accurate since lie everything else, including things like LSD which is legal with permit, it depends on the situation. I just don't want people getting cocky and then getting hurt when they presume they couldn't possibly be arrested just cuz they had a legal can of spray paint and were running away from some vandalism. In that case the spray paint may very well be illegal, and it works in more nefarious ways too (when they scare you into making statements after bringing you inf or questioning over the syringe- where they can make a case you did intend to use it illegaly, even if you think the fact that you never did means its not a crime).
Just a small point.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: johnm214]
#9482836 - 12/23/08 11:49 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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John, good points about intent. This is why it's so hard to say what is legal and what isn't. That plus the confusing plethora of laws we have on federal, state and local level. Intent has a lot to do with it and this is something I've been saying for a long time. Intent must be proven but can be shown without absolute proof.
In this case, they could not prove very easily that the spores were psilocybin spores. I saw an article in which they tried and tried to grow them out and ended up with nothing. LOL! But in theory they could prove they were that kind of spores and try to show you had intent. I'd call it a very uphill battle for them and one they are extremely unlikely to attempt. But in theory it could be charged.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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fungusamongus
fungus




Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 131
Loc: The Nations
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: johnm214]
#9482922 - 12/23/08 12:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: Do not pick it up. Do not say ANYTHING. If anyone calls, say you have nothing to say. If anyone comes to the door, don't answer. If anyone approaches you, give them your name and say nothing. Say you do not wish to be questioned.
Do not pick it up. Do you know the law? No. You don't know if they can get you for shipping a syringe in some manner. You don't know if your state or the feds have some vague biological material shipping requirements.
I would clean up my place and forget about it. It cannot be worth it. If you even talk to them you give yourself a chance to get asked uncomfortable questions. You lie and you could go to jail.
Will they likely do anything? Hopefully not, but you have no way of knowing.
Say nothing, consent to nothing, and forget about it. And clean your place. No matter what happens, say nothing but "I don't know what's going on, I want a lawyer and I don't consent to be questioned/searched"
This is good advise.
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2Cents



Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 4,392
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 7 days, 6 hours
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Simms]
#9500090 - 12/26/08 11:33 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Simms said: Well, I don't know about your country, but I would go and pick it up.
They cannot put you into jail or fine you because of this. For that, they need to prove you plan to grow them. You can just say you are only going to watch the syringe sit on a window or something.. a dumb excuse. They will be sleazy bastards and try to talk you in in all kinds of ways, by any means don't let them do anything to package unless they show you some exact warrant or paragraph from law (which I doubt exists...). They might not want to give you the package, so you say "So.. unless I have broken any laws or anything, can i take my package and go now?" If they say no, it would probably be because of pre caution of a possible crime, but for further arrest, they need proof which they haven't. Just don't order anything more suspicious like grow bags or something or they might have proof to get a warrant for home search.
Ya! fuck the police! go down there and defend your American right!
-------------------- Long live the Shroomery!!!
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2Cents



Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 4,392
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 7 days, 6 hours
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: grewya]
#9500174 - 12/26/08 11:49 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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grewya20 said: I say go down there with microscope in hand and DEMAND your spores!
Word.
-------------------- Long live the Shroomery!!!
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LateForTheFuture
Old Hand



Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 845
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: 2Cents]
#9503236 - 12/27/08 04:29 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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This entire thing really pisses me off.
Where do they think they have the right to do that? I have yet to get a package seized. If you don't mind me asking, who was the vendor?
Man, if trades start getting seized we're going to be seeing some bad trade ratings.
I guess more discreet packaging is neccessary these days?
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Calix
Seek, Kill, Destroy


Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,282
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Man I can tell from many responses alot have never been in a serious legal situation with LEO and have never been to jail/prison.
Unless your wealthy/upper class. In the US if a cop wants to f*uck you over they can and they WILL its just the truth of the matter.
When i went to jail at least 3 pages of the police report was flat out fabricated, the events never took place or the story was so altered the truth is the last thing youd find in it. Do you think the judge even thought for a second about believing me over the arresting officers?
LEO and a judge wouldnt give a sh*t about the legality of studying spores, youd get slapped with cultivation in a heartbeat, and yes it is possible for a warrant to be issued for ordering anything that is used primarily for the manufacture/cultivation of a controlled substance.
Better safe than sorry.
-------------------- "Im too drunk to taste this chicken"
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Plastered marble
All posts fictional

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 216
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Calix]
#9511140 - 12/29/08 05:53 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Think with me for a minute here will you:
You march down there and demand your package back, which is your legal right. As a matter of fact, you would be well within your legal right to file charges with the postmaster for interference with your correspondence, as well as filing police misconduct charges against the department if they withhold you your package.
Now, look at it from this perspective, through the eyes of a cop who'd like to get a cultivation bust on his record:
You pick up the spores and make ready to go home, but before you even make it out of the precinct, the cop's written up a declaration of probable cause to search your residence, because he knows you are in possession of an item likely to be used for illegal purposes.
Under probably cause, you can be detained while a warrant is secured to search your residence.
And they search ... Not a pleasant experience I'd imagine, a bunch of strangers turning the place upside down, breaking things, shooting your dog or stomping your cat to death (I kid you not) and then they get to your computer ... a computer which more than likely contains information regarding the cultivation of illegal substances, right?
Conspiracy charges were made for just this thing.
To protect and serve and fuck you over, because they can.
-------------------- I survived operation midnight climax and all I got was really, really high. (older sigs)
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Calix
Seek, Kill, Destroy


Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,282
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Plastered marble said:
Conspiracy charges were made for just this thing.
To protect and serve and fuck you over, because they can.
true that
-------------------- "Im too drunk to taste this chicken"
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mr.bixby
Routine waxes cold


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1,246
Loc: The West is the Best
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Calix]
#9514025 - 12/29/08 07:10 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Calix said: Man I can tell from many responses alot have never been in a serious legal situation with LEO and have never been to jail/prison.
Unless your wealthy/upper class. In the US if a cop wants to f*uck you over they can and they WILL its just the truth of the matter.
When i went to jail at least 3 pages of the police report was flat out fabricated, the events never took place or the story was so altered the truth is the last thing youd find in it. Do you think the judge even thought for a second about believing me over the arresting officers?
Yes, going through the court system erases all prior conditioning and illusions one might of been brought up to think that the government was benevolent, for the people, and that those involved in law enforcement are the good guys that protect you and society from danger and criminals.
I wouldn't pick up the spores, I'd just move and order them again if possible while keeping the residence "drug free".
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 19 hours
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Quote:
then they get to your computer ... a computer which more than likely contains information regarding the cultivation of illegal substances, right?
Conspiracy charges were made for just this thing.
Good points.
That is one reason everyone who browses shroomery should be using an encrypted filesystem and locked screen saver, that way the computer is just a hunk of metal instead of critical evidence.
Encrypted filesystems are included for free with all major OS's, USE THEM!
The linux version asks for a pass phrase to unlock your secret key when you boot up, the mac OSX and Windows versions encrypt your home directory with your login password. Either way works.
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jero25
Do Unto Others


Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 73
Loc: FreedomVille, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Ojom]
#12922584 - 07/20/10 01:18 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ojom said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: Moral of the story is never never use UPS
UPS has nothing to do with this story. The OP stated the USPS aka United States Postal Service called his friend to notify him the police had seized his package.
Considering that the police allowed the post office to notify the intended recipient of their seizure of the package the police aren't likely to do anything with it. If they were they would have done so before the recipient was tipped off.
It may take a warrant to search/seize first class mail, but believe me, it is not at all difficult for the police to get a warrant. It is upsettingly easy if you ask me. All it takes is a phone call, and they'll have a warrant in 30 min or less.
It actually stands for "United States Parcel Service
-------------------- Take care of what you like in life or you'll be forced to like what you get
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Anonymous #1
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: jero25]
#12922952 - 07/20/10 05:47 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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You dug up a year and a half old thread just to post wrong information?
It's "United States Postal Service" dumbass.
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German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid


Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Anonymous #1]
#12923124 - 07/20/10 07:15 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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1) It stands for United States POSTAL Service. Mind you, they even say so on their website. Go look it up. 2) This thread is 1 1/2 years old.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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You're a little slow on the draw there GK. Thanks for bumping a 1.5 year old thread yet again.
-FF
-------------------- It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed "If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP) I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid
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Twiztidsage
Fungal Databaser



Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 8,089
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: fastfred]
#12925201 - 07/20/10 03:13 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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jero25
Do Unto Others



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 73
Loc: FreedomVille, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: fastfred]
#12927487 - 07/20/10 10:33 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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LMFAO! Sorry I'm still trying to figure this out
-------------------- Take care of what you like in life or you'll be forced to like what you get
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suburbanned
Stranger

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 2,810
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: jero25]
#12936937 - 07/22/10 06:13 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why order syringes . Make your own ?
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jero25
Do Unto Others



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 73
Loc: FreedomVille, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: suburbanned]
#12963047 - 07/27/10 06:45 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Im missin a vital part in the process of that........
-------------------- Take care of what you like in life or you'll be forced to like what you get
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Anonymous #2
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: jero25]
#12976106 - 07/30/10 09:58 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thats weird that they seized that package. It must of been shipped fairly shitty to of been noticed by postal workers and for them to get the police involved. USPS is generally the safest mode of mailing.
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Alikeo
Stranger

Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 18
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Anonymous #2]
#13069835 - 08/18/10 04:16 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Anonymous said: Thats weird that they seized that package. It must of been shipped fairly shitty to of been noticed by postal workers and for them to get the police involved. USPS is generally the safest mode of mailing.
lol
when i got mine in the mail it said "2x Spore Syringes" on the outside =\ not discreet at all
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Gojira45
Armchair Explorer


Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 364
Loc: Travelling Without Moving
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Alikeo]
#13111584 - 08/27/10 08:26 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hilarious - I was reading this thread thinking 'this sounds familiar' only to find a 1.5 year old post I made on page 2. Thanks for the memories!
I would still stick with my original posts BTW!
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