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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: RogerRabbit]
#9457220 - 12/18/08 04:55 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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RogerRabbit said: I'd pick them up and be mad as hell that the US mail got interfered with. File an official written complaint with the postmaster. To not pick them up indicates illegal intent. Spores are legal. Besides, they already have his name and address. If they try to charge him with paraphernalia they'll look awfully stupid in court with a non-drug fully loaded syringe. It's the same as seizing a printer refill syringe full of ink. RR
The only point I'd make is that syringes themselves are illegal some places. I'm not sure I'd make a complaint but something is funny about this whole thing. How did they know to look in it? Something is very wierd.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Srirachi
Mold Hand



Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 11,411
Loc: Fare Thee Well.
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Chemy]
#9458364 - 12/18/08 07:54 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Chemy said:
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A growth cycle was initiated for all three samples in order to determine whether or not Psilocybe mushrooms could be produced. A standard underground procedure was used (obtained from an Internet site). Mycelium growth was observed after about 3 weeks; however, only two small mushrooms grew (which were harvested after 78 days). Analysis of methanolic extracts of the two mushrooms by GC/MS indicated no controlled substances, suggesting that the mushrooms were not Psilocybe mushrooms. It is unclear whether the sale was a scam, or if the solution was contaminated during the transfer from the syringes to the vials, or if there was some other unknown problem with the solution or cultivation procedures. This is the first time that a mushroom grow has been performed at the North Central Laboratory.
fucking LOL LEOs can't even do the PF tek
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Srirachi
Mold Hand



Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 11,411
Loc: Fare Thee Well.
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Srirachi]
#9458401 - 12/18/08 08:00 PM (15 years, 5 months ago) |
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Also, I'd suggest reading about my hassles before making any assumptions about how things are going to turn out.
Essentially it is the story of how "intent to cultivate" is used in a very broad way to fuck people over. People have suggested that I could have beaten this, but none of those people have law degrees, so I tend to believe the attorney I paid. He said I had a one in five chance of beating it.
EDIT: read this too
Edited by Srirachi (12/18/08 08:15 PM)
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: J3illy]
#9459968 - 12/19/08 02:09 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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J3illy said:
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johnm214 said: Find me the law that says they are legal. That is what I mean.
There's no law that has to say they're legal. They contain no psilocybin or illegal chemicals, so they are 100% legal. Again, how do you think vendors can sell them on websites totally out in the open?
Spores have no such law, meaning, you can be arrested for having them.
They're NOT illegal. Even if I did get pulled over and arrested w/ JUST a syringe, no charges would stick. I have 100% legal spores for "microscopy", nothing illegal about it. It's the INTENT that's illegal. If I got pulled over w/ a syringe, and growbags say - there'd be intent of cultivation. But a spore syringe BY ITSELF is not illegal.
You seem to not understand my statements and yours. Someone said they were legal. I said they weren't per se illegal and that there is a difference. You are making an argument that they aren't a controlled substance which doesn't show that they are legal. You are saying that they are legal in some circumstances which I agree with, not that they are legal in all.
I have no idea what point you are making with your hypothetical. Yes they can be illegal as I have allready explained. Why are you parroting arguments without rebutting my explantation? The fact that something is sold is irrelevant.
Yes a spore syringe by itself is legal. So what? This wasn't the issue, the issue was whether they legal. I said they may be legal or illegal and this determination can result in you going to jail and eating a lot of money to find out.
You will not be charged for a spore syringe by itself so I don't understand why you are making this argument.
People made a statement that the sproe syringe was legal, which isn't true. It can be both legal or illega depending on the situation. You stab someone in the eye with it and it is illegal. You intend to use it to produce controlled substances it is illegal.
The mere facts that these counterexamples exist disproves the statement that they are legal. They are a gray area and moreso than many things. If you didn't intend to state they were legal in all areas than stop using the infinitives in your sentences when refering to their legality and stop arguing against someone who is clearly observing that you did.
And in the end unless they are of the expensive varieties seuss contemplates, it is hard to see how the chance that you will be arrested or searched is worth retrieving them. And for those talking about proof, getting convicted isn't the entirety of the problems that could result from picking them up.
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J3illy
Trainee

Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 3,344
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: johnm214]
#9464254 - 12/19/08 08:32 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I made my response based on these 2 statements you made:
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-Find me the law that says they are legal. That is what I mean. -Spores have no such law, meaning, you can be arrested for having them.
My statement is that spores alone are 100% legal. But if you had them w/ cultivation supplies, as I pointed out, that's when they'd be illegal cuz of your intent. After going thru your response and seeing that you're agreeing w/ my point, then the argument is over.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: J3illy]
#9473573 - 12/21/08 04:04 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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J3illy said: I made my response based on these 2 statements you made:
Quote:
-Find me the law that says they are legal. That is what I mean. -Spores have no such law, meaning, you can be arrested for having them.
My statement is that spores alone are 100% legal. But if you had them w/ cultivation supplies, as I pointed out, that's when they'd be illegal cuz of your intent. After going thru your response and seeing that you're agreeing w/ my point, then the argument is over.
yeah, but you seem to miss a small point. Intent would mean you are commiting a crime in general, but the actual drug paraphanalia laws, for example, make the syringes illegal in this situation. That's what I mean when I say its not neccesarily legal. People sometime seem to think there is this dividing line between legal and illegal, when really you have things that are generally illegal (cocaine, but may be legal with prescription) and generally legal (a brick, but may be illegal as a criminal tool when you break someone's window).
The danger is people sometimes think if they have a legal item they can't be charged for it, which isn't true. You intend to commit a crime, or do commit a crime, with the item it is often illegal. Spore syringes even more so since the preponderant use is likely illegal (for the nonedibles).
So that's all I'm saying, that "it's legal" isn't really accurate since lie everything else, including things like LSD which is legal with permit, it depends on the situation. I just don't want people getting cocky and then getting hurt when they presume they couldn't possibly be arrested just cuz they had a legal can of spray paint and were running away from some vandalism. In that case the spray paint may very well be illegal, and it works in more nefarious ways too (when they scare you into making statements after bringing you inf or questioning over the syringe- where they can make a case you did intend to use it illegaly, even if you think the fact that you never did means its not a crime).
Just a small point.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: johnm214]
#9482836 - 12/23/08 11:49 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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John, good points about intent. This is why it's so hard to say what is legal and what isn't. That plus the confusing plethora of laws we have on federal, state and local level. Intent has a lot to do with it and this is something I've been saying for a long time. Intent must be proven but can be shown without absolute proof.
In this case, they could not prove very easily that the spores were psilocybin spores. I saw an article in which they tried and tried to grow them out and ended up with nothing. LOL! But in theory they could prove they were that kind of spores and try to show you had intent. I'd call it a very uphill battle for them and one they are extremely unlikely to attempt. But in theory it could be charged.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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fungusamongus
fungus




Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 131
Loc: The Nations
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: johnm214]
#9482922 - 12/23/08 12:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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johnm214 said: Do not pick it up. Do not say ANYTHING. If anyone calls, say you have nothing to say. If anyone comes to the door, don't answer. If anyone approaches you, give them your name and say nothing. Say you do not wish to be questioned.
Do not pick it up. Do you know the law? No. You don't know if they can get you for shipping a syringe in some manner. You don't know if your state or the feds have some vague biological material shipping requirements.
I would clean up my place and forget about it. It cannot be worth it. If you even talk to them you give yourself a chance to get asked uncomfortable questions. You lie and you could go to jail.
Will they likely do anything? Hopefully not, but you have no way of knowing.
Say nothing, consent to nothing, and forget about it. And clean your place. No matter what happens, say nothing but "I don't know what's going on, I want a lawyer and I don't consent to be questioned/searched"
This is good advise.
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2Cents



Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 4,392
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 7 days, 6 hours
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Simms]
#9500090 - 12/26/08 11:33 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Simms said: Well, I don't know about your country, but I would go and pick it up.
They cannot put you into jail or fine you because of this. For that, they need to prove you plan to grow them. You can just say you are only going to watch the syringe sit on a window or something.. a dumb excuse. They will be sleazy bastards and try to talk you in in all kinds of ways, by any means don't let them do anything to package unless they show you some exact warrant or paragraph from law (which I doubt exists...). They might not want to give you the package, so you say "So.. unless I have broken any laws or anything, can i take my package and go now?" If they say no, it would probably be because of pre caution of a possible crime, but for further arrest, they need proof which they haven't. Just don't order anything more suspicious like grow bags or something or they might have proof to get a warrant for home search.
Ya! fuck the police! go down there and defend your American right!
-------------------- Long live the Shroomery!!!
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2Cents



Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 4,392
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 7 days, 6 hours
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: grewya]
#9500174 - 12/26/08 11:49 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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grewya20 said: I say go down there with microscope in hand and DEMAND your spores!
Word.
-------------------- Long live the Shroomery!!!
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LateForTheFuture
Old Hand



Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 845
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: 2Cents]
#9503236 - 12/27/08 04:29 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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This entire thing really pisses me off.
Where do they think they have the right to do that? I have yet to get a package seized. If you don't mind me asking, who was the vendor?
Man, if trades start getting seized we're going to be seeing some bad trade ratings.
I guess more discreet packaging is neccessary these days?
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Calix
Seek, Kill, Destroy


Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,282
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Man I can tell from many responses alot have never been in a serious legal situation with LEO and have never been to jail/prison.
Unless your wealthy/upper class. In the US if a cop wants to f*uck you over they can and they WILL its just the truth of the matter.
When i went to jail at least 3 pages of the police report was flat out fabricated, the events never took place or the story was so altered the truth is the last thing youd find in it. Do you think the judge even thought for a second about believing me over the arresting officers?
LEO and a judge wouldnt give a sh*t about the legality of studying spores, youd get slapped with cultivation in a heartbeat, and yes it is possible for a warrant to be issued for ordering anything that is used primarily for the manufacture/cultivation of a controlled substance.
Better safe than sorry.
-------------------- "Im too drunk to taste this chicken"
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Plastered marble
All posts fictional

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 216
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Calix]
#9511140 - 12/29/08 05:53 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Think with me for a minute here will you:
You march down there and demand your package back, which is your legal right. As a matter of fact, you would be well within your legal right to file charges with the postmaster for interference with your correspondence, as well as filing police misconduct charges against the department if they withhold you your package.
Now, look at it from this perspective, through the eyes of a cop who'd like to get a cultivation bust on his record:
You pick up the spores and make ready to go home, but before you even make it out of the precinct, the cop's written up a declaration of probable cause to search your residence, because he knows you are in possession of an item likely to be used for illegal purposes.
Under probably cause, you can be detained while a warrant is secured to search your residence.
And they search ... Not a pleasant experience I'd imagine, a bunch of strangers turning the place upside down, breaking things, shooting your dog or stomping your cat to death (I kid you not) and then they get to your computer ... a computer which more than likely contains information regarding the cultivation of illegal substances, right?
Conspiracy charges were made for just this thing.
To protect and serve and fuck you over, because they can.
-------------------- I survived operation midnight climax and all I got was really, really high. (older sigs)
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Calix
Seek, Kill, Destroy


Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 1,282
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Plastered marble said:
Conspiracy charges were made for just this thing.
To protect and serve and fuck you over, because they can.
true that
-------------------- "Im too drunk to taste this chicken"
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mr.bixby
Routine waxes cold


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1,246
Loc: The West is the Best
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Calix]
#9514025 - 12/29/08 07:10 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Calix said: Man I can tell from many responses alot have never been in a serious legal situation with LEO and have never been to jail/prison.
Unless your wealthy/upper class. In the US if a cop wants to f*uck you over they can and they WILL its just the truth of the matter.
When i went to jail at least 3 pages of the police report was flat out fabricated, the events never took place or the story was so altered the truth is the last thing youd find in it. Do you think the judge even thought for a second about believing me over the arresting officers?
Yes, going through the court system erases all prior conditioning and illusions one might of been brought up to think that the government was benevolent, for the people, and that those involved in law enforcement are the good guys that protect you and society from danger and criminals.
I wouldn't pick up the spores, I'd just move and order them again if possible while keeping the residence "drug free".
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 19 hours
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Quote:
then they get to your computer ... a computer which more than likely contains information regarding the cultivation of illegal substances, right?
Conspiracy charges were made for just this thing.
Good points.
That is one reason everyone who browses shroomery should be using an encrypted filesystem and locked screen saver, that way the computer is just a hunk of metal instead of critical evidence.
Encrypted filesystems are included for free with all major OS's, USE THEM!
The linux version asks for a pass phrase to unlock your secret key when you boot up, the mac OSX and Windows versions encrypt your home directory with your login password. Either way works.
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jero25
Do Unto Others


Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 73
Loc: FreedomVille, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Ojom]
#12922584 - 07/20/10 01:18 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ojom said:
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Stonehenge said: Moral of the story is never never use UPS
UPS has nothing to do with this story. The OP stated the USPS aka United States Postal Service called his friend to notify him the police had seized his package.
Considering that the police allowed the post office to notify the intended recipient of their seizure of the package the police aren't likely to do anything with it. If they were they would have done so before the recipient was tipped off.
It may take a warrant to search/seize first class mail, but believe me, it is not at all difficult for the police to get a warrant. It is upsettingly easy if you ask me. All it takes is a phone call, and they'll have a warrant in 30 min or less.
It actually stands for "United States Parcel Service
-------------------- Take care of what you like in life or you'll be forced to like what you get
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Anonymous #1
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: jero25]
#12922952 - 07/20/10 05:47 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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You dug up a year and a half old thread just to post wrong information?
It's "United States Postal Service" dumbass.
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German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid


Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Anonymous #1]
#12923124 - 07/20/10 07:15 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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1) It stands for United States POSTAL Service. Mind you, they even say so on their website. Go look it up. 2) This thread is 1 1/2 years old.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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You're a little slow on the draw there GK. Thanks for bumping a 1.5 year old thread yet again.
-FF
-------------------- It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed "If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP) I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid
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