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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Simms]
    #9447424 - 12/16/08 11:14 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Simms said:
I hope that last post was a joke. People cannot be in such a fear. police state? If spores are LEGAL, then no crime is being commited. however they might do a house search on you one day, in which case you just have to be clever and order spores for a friends name who isn't going to grow them. Then he can go and pick them up and not lie. They will ask friends name, but you just say you don't remember his exact name, it was this dude...





Spores are not legal, pretty much nothing is legal.  What you mean to say is that spores aren't per se illegal.

They were likely illegal in this case as drug paraphanalia or would provide evidence of an attempt.


You are betting they don't want to try and prosecute or investigate and you're betting you know the law, whcih you don't.


Are syringes legal in that state?  Biological material of that type?

Even if both are yes, you still have the attempt and paraphanalia to worry about.  Why the fuck would you risk your freedom over that?

By going in to get it you allow them to talk to you.  Most people won't refuse questioning and will say something that is a lie or provides cause.  Even if you don't you give the people a chance to say they talked to / met you and that you acted nervous and seemed shifty.

Nothing good can come of this.  You have a false sense of security.  By even contacting them you show the spores were things you ordered.  If they are going for a raid, the fact that you attempted to pick it up is a big help.  It is no longer an unknown package, it is a package you wanted to and attempted to recieve.


Do not pick it up.  Do not talk to them.  Your freedom isn't worth 20$.

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InvisibleJ3illy
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: johnm214]
    #9447475 - 12/16/08 11:22 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Spores are not legal, pretty much nothing is legal.  What you mean to say is that spores aren't per se illegal.




They are absolutely legal.  How do you think tons of vendors are able to openly sell them online?  It's the intent or what you do w/ them that makes them illegal.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: J3illy]
    #9447922 - 12/17/08 12:38 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

J3illy said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
Spores are not legal, pretty much nothing is legal.  What you mean to say is that spores aren't per se illegal.




They are absolutely legal.  How do you think tons of vendors are able to openly sell them online?  It's the intent or what you do w/ them that makes them illegal.




Find me the law that says they are legal.  That is what I mean.


Expressing ideas is legal, see the first amendment.

Spores have no such law, meaning, you can be arrested for having them.  Yes, intent is needed for some laws.  Some others it is not.  Are syringes illegal there?  Bio materical?  Who knows.

The fact is by talking to them you give them evidence.  That evidence can not help you.


If you are arrested or searched and found not guilty or the case is dropped, great.  You might only have wasted a day or so in jail and several grand.  What a victory.

I would say most people that order spores are intending to do illegal things with them, and this is all the certainty needed to charge someone, arrest them, and search their place.  If you affirm you ordered them you've helped them meet this certainty.  If you talk to them you give yourself a chance to lie or act shady.  And you give them a chance to lie about what you said on the warrant app.


Don't get the spores.  20$ is not worth the grief even if nothing happens. And if someone wants to make something out of it, the fact they can put your statements on the warrant app. and show you wanted the spores will help immeasurably.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: mr.bixby]
    #9448434 - 12/17/08 03:41 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

> Consult a lawyer that knows the laws in the great state of Arizona and procede from his/her advice.

Best advice I have seen given.  Personally, if I were going to retrieve them, I would hire an attorney to do it for me.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineGojira45
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: J3illy]
    #9449003 - 12/17/08 08:56 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

The fact is, if he goes in some way to regain the package he has made himself a 'known entity' to the police. They will ask questions - even if they have nothing to legally question him on, they will ask questions. He will answer stupidly. People always answer stupidly. And then that little light bulb will go on over the cop's head & they will note your friend's name, address, appearance, etc. in a notebook.

Forget the package, deal with the lost $$ and if ANYONE comes around/calls, etc. follow johnm214's advice.

BTW, I notice you did not mention whom shipped him the spores? I'm assuming it wasn't a shroomery vendor? They shipped it such that the USPS didn't need a warrent to inspect the package? This thing has bad idea written all over it...

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OfflineGojira45
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Seuss]
    #9449008 - 12/17/08 08:58 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Consult a lawyer that knows the laws in the great state of Arizona and procede from his/her advice.

Best advice I have seen given.  Personally, if I were going to retrieve them, I would hire an attorney to do it for me.



Personally, I'd accept the $20 loss. It's gonna cost a lot more to send a attorney down to the police station to get the package.

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InvisibleMastamike1118
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Gojira45]
    #9449096 - 12/17/08 09:30 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

where exactly do you have to pick it up at the police station? or the postal office? if its the postal office id prolly get it

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Mastamike1118]
    #9449514 - 12/17/08 11:22 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

> Personally, I'd accept the $20 loss.

You are assuming $20.  Some types of edible mushrooms spores can cost a lot of money.


--------------------
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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Seuss]
    #9449736 - 12/17/08 12:08 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Things are only illegal if there is a law that clearly says they are illegal. Saying 'find me a law that says it's legal' turns everything on it's head. All rights not specifically relegated to the federal government or to the states are reserved onto the people. It's in the constitution, there is your law.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Stonehenge]
    #9449946 - 12/17/08 12:57 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Things are only illegal if there is a law that clearly says they are illegal. Saying 'find me a law that says it's legal' turns everything on it's head. All rights not specifically relegated to the federal government or to the states are reserved onto the people. It's in the constitution, there is your law.





Its not the people, its the people or the state, and its the state that is busting your ass, so that isn't much help.  Nevertheless, while I may agree with you on some level, that's not the current state of the law.  The current state is that the commerce clause alllows the fed. govenrment to do pretty much whatever they want.

Yes, things are only illegal if there is a law that clearly states they are illegal, but that isn't the issue.  The issue isn't whether they are illegal, the issue is whether they are legal.  What I'm saying is that they aren't per se illegal but they may still be illegal.  It depends ont he circumstances, and the issue isn't dichotomous.  There's legal, illegal, and depends.  Pretty much everything is depends.  Pretty much everything can be illegal even if they aren't per se.  Criinal tools/paraphanalia statutes are a good example of the ways things that aren't per se illegal may be illegal nevertheless.

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OfflineGojira45
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Seuss]
    #9450006 - 12/17/08 01:12 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Personally, I'd accept the $20 loss.

You are assuming $20.  Some types of edible mushrooms spores can cost a lot of money.




Funny - your right. OP never mentioned a price... wasn't until the 4th post that $20 came up.

Still... I'd take the loss just to keep away from 5-0.

:2cents:

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OfflineMaverick
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Seuss]
    #9450020 - 12/17/08 01:15 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Consult a lawyer that knows the laws in the great state of Arizona and procede from his/her advice.

Best advice I have seen given.  Personally, if I were going to retrieve them, I would hire an attorney to do it for me.




Usually your first consultation is free and they give you all the information you need to know, which gives you the idea on whether to go ahead or to not.  Consult a lawyer if you really plan on going and picking them up.

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Invisiblegrewya
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: J3illy]
    #9450076 - 12/17/08 01:28 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I say go down there with microscope in hand and DEMAND your spores!

:dancer:


--------------------
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Offlinesan pedro5
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: J3illy]
    #9450479 - 12/17/08 02:42 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for all the advice my friend decided not to pick them up and he will most likely order prints as opposed to syringes in the future.

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OfflineTwiztidsage
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: tak]
    #9450559 - 12/17/08 02:53 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tak said:
Just because something is legal doesn't make you free to spit in their faces.





Just because something can be used illegally doesn't make them free to spit in our faces.

I know it is a push, but MAYBE he is simply studying them. In that case the government has no right to stop him. I would pick it up as long as my house wasn't already full of fruits. Man, you paranoids would make the hippies roll over and over in their fungus-riddled graves. As long as nothing seems felonious, a bit of legal trouble is worth standing up for ones self. Protest!

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OfflineGojira45
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: san pedro5]
    #9450906 - 12/17/08 04:12 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

san pedro5 said:
Thanks for all the advice my friend decided not to pick them up and he will most likely order prints as opposed to syringes in the future.



Can you provide some more details? Did he order from a known shroomery vendor? Can you find out how the package was shipped (first class, priority, etc?) My understanding is that some USPS package types require a warrant to search...

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InvisibleJ3illy
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: johnm214]
    #9451040 - 12/17/08 04:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Find me the law that says they are legal.  That is what I mean.

There's no law that has to say they're legal.  They contain no psilocybin or illegal chemicals, so they are 100% legal.  Again, how do you think vendors can sell them on websites totally out in the open?

Spores have no such law, meaning, you can be arrested for having them.

They're NOT illegal.  Even if I did get pulled over and arrested w/ JUST a syringe, no charges would stick.  I have 100% legal spores for "microscopy", nothing illegal about it.  It's the INTENT that's illegal.  If I got pulled over w/ a syringe, and growbags say - there'd be intent of cultivation.  But a spore syringe BY ITSELF is not illegal.




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OfflineIncredibleEdible
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: Gojira45]
    #9454690 - 12/18/08 07:24 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Gojira45 said:
Can you provide some more details? Did he order from a known shroomery vendor? Can you find out how the package was shipped (first class, priority, etc?) My understanding is that some USPS package types require a warrant to search...




Yes, I'd like to know the details as well. Who they were ordered from, how big an order, shipping method, etc.

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Offlinekinderfeld11
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: johnm214]
    #9456296 - 12/18/08 01:59 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Do not pick it up.  Do not say ANYTHING.  If anyone calls, say you have nothing to say.  If anyone comes to the door, don't answer.  If anyone approaches you, give them your name and say nothing.  Say you do not wish to be questioned.


Do not pick it up.  Do you know the law?  No.  You don't know if they can get you for shipping  a syringe in some manner.  You don't know if your state or the feds have some vague biological material shipping requirements. 


I would clean up my place and forget about it.  It cannot be worth it.  If you even talk to them you give yourself a chance to get asked uncomfortable questions.  You lie and you could go to jail.

Will they likely do anything?  Hopefully not, but you have no way of knowing.


Say nothing, consent to nothing, and forget about it.  And clean your place.  No matter what happens, say nothing but "I don't know what's going on, I want a lawyer and I don't consent to be questioned/searched"





Enough said. That is the twisted ways in which the law works there are levels of laws, state, federal, international...you never know if this package broke one of those, just because you don't 'know' of a the law makes no difference...in fact that is probably the point. The average person has common sense with state law but once you go federal you'll have a whole new set of problems coming at you.


--------------------
Cowards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste of death but once.
Of all the wonders that I yet have heard.
It seems to me most strange that men should fear;
Seeing that death, a necessary end,
Will come when it will come.
(Julius Caesar, Act II, Scene 2).
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OfflineRogerRabbitV
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Re: police seized spore syringes [Re: kinderfeld11]
    #9457169 - 12/18/08 04:47 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I'd pick them up and be mad as hell that the US mail got interfered with. File an official written complaint with the postmaster. To not pick them up indicates illegal intent.  Spores are legal.  Besides, they already have his name and address.  If they try to charge him with paraphernalia they'll look awfully stupid in court with a non-drug fully loaded syringe.  It's the same as seizing a printer refill syringe full of ink.
RR


--------------------
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