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jccc
just aotherhuman
Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 1,162
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst
#9442837 - 12/16/08 10:07 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hi all!
I acquired a 50 gallon metal drum for bulk pasteurization a while back and had very good results at first.
But now I have had 2 bad runs in a row, and all of the bags have had an odor to them from the get go. The odor is a weird wet straw musty smell that stinks up the room.
My procedure is: Chop straw Pack Barrel Fill with water Light fire underneath Let water heat to 170-180 Maintain that temp for 2 hours Pitchfork straw out onto a tarp Drag tarp to hill Let the gravity from the hill drain the water from straw Once cooled fill bags
Two variables to note that I have changed. 1)I started filling the bags outside 2)I began using a weed-whip to chop straw instead of my shredder.
Any ideas of the constant contams and smell? To me it seems that the mycelium is not able to grow healthily when the bags have this odor.
Thanks
JCCC
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denger
Mycelium keeper
Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1,177
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: jccc]
#9442849 - 12/16/08 10:10 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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You could be infecting your straw after it is pasteurized. Primary suspects are the tarp and the pitch fork. I'd recommed washing them really well. Also, you might want to increase the time to 3-4 hours.
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jccc
just aotherhuman
Registered: 12/01/06
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: denger]
#9442885 - 12/16/08 10:17 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok.. I still am wondering what the hell that smell is though...
Does anyone ever get bad straw?
JCCC
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jccc
just aotherhuman
Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 1,162
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: jccc]
#9442892 - 12/16/08 10:20 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I should install a drain valve on the bottom of my barrel shouldn't I..That away I can just drain the water and not expose the straw to outside contams.
JCCC
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Cryogenicz
what?
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Loc: Oregon
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: jccc]
#9442915 - 12/16/08 10:26 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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It could be numerous things. I would use a sanitary cleaner for your tarp and pitchfork. Your pasteurization temps/times are good. Also, your straw is exposed for how long while its cooling. I suggest that you drain in the barrel and then pull the straw out when its almost cool, but still hot.
When you pull it out hot, it will cool and you can mix straw and spawn and fill bags.
The smell is most likely bacteria.
-Graham
-------------------- www.MycoPath.com Mushroom Spawn, Cultures, Fungi Bags, Casings, Master Grain Jars, Bags for In-vitro, Laboratory supplies, and much more! Mushroom Supplies. Fast Turnaround Times. Great Service. orders@mycopath.com enter code shroomery for 10% off product. www.FungiForum.com
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: jccc]
#9442921 - 12/16/08 10:27 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Consider adding hydrated lime to the straw. Bring the PH to 8.0 What kind of contamination are you getting? Trichoderma can't get a foot hold in a slightly basified environment, hence my query and recommendation.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: Cryogenicz]
#9442935 - 12/16/08 10:31 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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That is fucking outstanding when a vendor chimes in. Right on man!
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jccc
just aotherhuman
Registered: 12/01/06
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: jccc]
#9443016 - 12/16/08 10:51 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thank you everyone for the input Yeah its trich. I have left the barrel to cool over night on some occasions and that is probably why it smells I'm guessing. Does most everyone here use a wire basket to hold there straw as shown in GGMM?
JCCC
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Cryogenicz
what?
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: jccc]
#9443518 - 12/16/08 12:43 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't anymore, I use a wire screen at the bottom over some supports and then a screen on top with a small separator then latch the lid on(this pushes the straw into the water).
Mr.Al -
-Graham
-------------------- www.MycoPath.com Mushroom Spawn, Cultures, Fungi Bags, Casings, Master Grain Jars, Bags for In-vitro, Laboratory supplies, and much more! Mushroom Supplies. Fast Turnaround Times. Great Service. orders@mycopath.com enter code shroomery for 10% off product. www.FungiForum.com
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Buckeye Oysters
From Zero to Hero
Registered: 08/09/08
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: Cryogenicz]
#9447674 - 12/16/08 11:52 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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2 hours is too long for straw pasteurization. You want temp to stay 150-180 for no less than 1 hour no more than 1 1/2 hours. You are probably killing off too much good bacteria. The straw should be pretty resilient to mold and bacteria unless its coming in direct contact with them or you are placing it in a contaminated room or close to the floor (should be as high up as possible). Draining outside won't hurt it, just make sure its covered with some clean plastic so no bird poops on it, etc.. Most likely though its just that you are heating for too long.
-------------------- Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise. Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated. For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.
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solumvita
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
#9448259 - 12/17/08 02:35 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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i agree with what people have said, not too sure about the lenght of the heating process, I would be happy with 1-2 hours. But it certainly makes much more sense to drain in the barrel. Pulling it out and all that work sounds like too much effort to me.
I do not agree with the Trichoderma smelling like bacteria. The other point you have not mentioned is whether the straw you are currently using is the same as when you first started? Quality can vary widely, it may just be that you got a really dirty bale of straw.
-------------------- One of these days all the answers will be revealed until then we learn from each other! www.mushrush.co.za
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Hotnuts
old hand
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
#9450084 - 12/17/08 01:31 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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180 is a little too hot IMO. Go 150 for 2 hours and don't allow the straw to set in the water for too long after cooling or the water can go anaerobic.
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Buckeye Oysters
From Zero to Hero
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: Hotnuts]
#9450124 - 12/17/08 01:41 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I am telling you all, 2 hours is too long for pasteurization of straw. 180f is not too high.
-------------------- Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise. Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated. For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.
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Servator
Viral Agent
Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 4,893
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
#9450596 - 12/17/08 03:00 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Stamets recommends pasteurization times as long as 4 hours, depending on temperature.
Two hours is NOT too long. And yes, 180 is on the hot side of desirable. It should work, but if it gets any hotter, you could have problems.
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Buckeye Oysters
From Zero to Hero
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: Servator]
#9450803 - 12/17/08 03:48 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I am looking at the GGMM right now under 'Hot Water Bath Method Pasteurization' and he says "no longer than 2 hours". Look it up. 160f is ideal temp, 180f is the high end.
You are thinking of steam pasteurization which should be done for at least 2hrs.
-------------------- Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise. Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated. For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.
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falcon
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
#9450822 - 12/17/08 03:54 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah 160 and less than 2 hours ideal, longer than two hours and the straw is like water logged and becomes matted.
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sherminator
Flying Saucer Tour
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: falcon]
#9451261 - 12/17/08 05:33 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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All hear this...
please visit Oyster Mushroom Cultivation look at page 4 (or page 31 of the entire document), there is a great chart detailing the proper range to pasteurize at and why.
I feel you may have gone too high or too long....Or perhaps it was not dry enough and a bit too moist on the inside when you drained it. Maybe.
I feel the pdf I linked to is a good guide for any production scale. And I have read most of Staments works.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: sherminator]
#9452555 - 12/17/08 09:14 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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What kind of gas exchange are you providing in the bags? I've had better luck making straw logs that have lots of slits in them, than loading spawn type filter patch bags. Insufficient gas exchange can lead to slower mycelium growth and thus encourage bacterial bloom during colonization. If you are using filter patch bags, stab them in a few places with a knife after spawning, and pack the straw pretty darn tight. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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jccc
just aotherhuman
Registered: 12/01/06
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: RogerRabbit]
#9454586 - 12/18/08 06:48 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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RR-I basically follow what stamets said to do in ggmm. I pack the straw in tubes compacting it along the way. After that I move them to my area I have designated them to do there spawn run. Once I get them there I use a deer hunting arrow head to puncture a X like slit pattern.
Another thing to add is that the bags typically leak water for a day or two..is this normal as well?(the water usually isnt clear)
My first bale of straw was from a grain and feed store, and the rest have been from lowes(looked terrible) or another local hardware shop.
Maybe I should rinse the straw once it comes out of the barrel because the last batch was awful...it looked slimy and nasty.
Thanks
JCCC
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weretheshit
FeelingRhizomorp<wbr><wbr>hic?
Registered: 10/30/07
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: jccc]
#9455307 - 12/18/08 10:21 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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sounds like your water content may be too high.
Either use a different draining method, squeeze it out with a hydraulic press or by running it over in a car (in something sterile.) Or your best option imo, invest in an aerobic pasteurization setup. ie. wagner power steamer.
you could also load pillow cases up and hang them over night.
Be weary of mold colonies in your spawning room
Lower temps down to 150-160
2hrs is a good amount of time.
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weretheshit
FeelingRhizomorp<wbr><wbr>hic?
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: weretheshit]
#9455327 - 12/18/08 10:24 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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*oh.
and you'll find a lawn mower is the fastest way to shred a bail of straw imo. I can shred a bail in less than 5mins. Wet it down a little first to keep the dust down.
Break bale, shred once.
Flip it, Pile it back up, shred again.
Flip it, Pile it up, shred again.
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Hotnuts
old hand
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
#9455576 - 12/18/08 11:30 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Buckeye Oysters said: I am telling you all, 2 hours is too long for pasteurization of straw. 180f is not too high.
No it isn't. I've done tons of straw @ 150 for 2 hours, for more than 11 years. Every batch comes out perfect and is good for up to 2-3 weeks.
"Maybe I should rinse the straw once it comes out of the barrel because the last batch was awful...it looked slimy and nasty"
It's going anaerobic. As soon as the straw is done pasteurizing, drain immediately and allow to cool with fresh air.
Edited by Hotnuts (12/18/08 11:33 AM)
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jccc
just aotherhuman
Registered: 12/01/06
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Re: Bulk Pasteurization has taken a turn for the worst [Re: Hotnuts]
#9455773 - 12/18/08 12:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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OK so I need less time sitting in the water and more time draining? How do most of you drain bulk amounts of straw?
About the lawn mower..Do you shred your straw on a tarp or just on some grass?
Thanks
JCCC
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