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OfflineMirth
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Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ?
    #9438422 - 12/15/08 05:23 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Good day - I have decided to train myself in some of the techie/geek arts and was wondering if you had any suggestions .

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: Mirth]
    #9438507 - 12/15/08 05:37 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Wow what a weird thing to want...  usually tech nerds cannot help but be that way, in spite of negative social consequences.  I have never heard of anybody wanting to become one...

Well, how about building computers?  Programming?  Electronics in general are fun.

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OfflineMHbound
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: DieCommie]
    #9438569 - 12/15/08 05:45 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Start learning to hack things like:

http://www.hackaday.com

Programming is a nerdy skill I should know. Linux is fun, and makes you kinda look nerdy if you can use it good.


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Invisiblesherm
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: Mirth]
    #9438570 - 12/15/08 05:45 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

i like linux :lizhurley:


--------------------
shroomery.
not even once.


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OfflineMirth
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: sherm]
    #9438708 - 12/15/08 06:07 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Thankyou - I have great respect for those who create and manipulate code .
I have only delved lightly into geek orientated activities in the past -cracking - a tiny bit of hacking and just playing with odd software and making experiments- which reminds me - have you ever heard of or used a program called "speederXP" ?- oh what fun - it speeds up lots of xp without overclocking -  anyway -
Im thinking some sort of programming and a little hacking because it is so cool .

Basically I dont have the time to learn everything I wish in the computer realm but wish to learn some really unique geeky things and must focus .

Does the anti-geek idea arise mostly from jealousy I wonder ?

I would like to find out how rainbow tables work .

Anyway - be awesome -

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Invisiblearainbow
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: sherm]
    #9438736 - 12/15/08 06:11 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

learn assembly code programming this is just about the geekyest thing you could do
even the nerds will look at you as a geek God


--------------------
There is more joy in heaven over one of us perfected,
  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.

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OfflineMirth
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: arainbow]
    #9438771 - 12/15/08 06:16 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

So okay I could google it - but what in your words is assembly code programming ?

I remember once I installed xp as a virtual computer on vmware whilst speeder xp was running on the host then ran the virtual computer and played with having speeder on on both the systems, at one point I had google giving me results so fast it was scary - really .

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Offlinesupra
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: arainbow]
    #9438851 - 12/15/08 06:25 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

arainbow said:
learn assembly code programming this is just about the geekyest thing you could do
even the nerds will look at you as a geek God




haha, assembler is fun, but a pain in the ass sometimes.  I took 2 semesters of assembler using the ibm 370/380 assembler.

peace

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Invisiblearainbow
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: supra]
    #9439098 - 12/15/08 07:02 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I had to work on learning assembly for 6 hours a day for 3 months before 90% of my code would even run with out crashing the computer that was on a Z80
the 2ed cpu a 80286 took me about 4 hours a day for a month to get to the same point


--------------------
There is more joy in heaven over one of us perfected,
  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.

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Invisiblearainbow
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: Mirth]
    #9439187 - 12/15/08 07:16 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mirth said:
So okay I could google it - but what in your words is assembly code programming ?

I remember once I installed xp as a virtual computer on vmware whilst speeder xp was running on the host then ran the virtual computer and played with having speeder on on both the systems, at one point I had google giving me results so fast it was scary - really .




assembly is as close as a human can get to speaking the language the cpu speaks
assembly is the smallest and fastest language there is
ie the helo world program can be as small as 17 bytes with out the file header


--------------------
There is more joy in heaven over one of us perfected,
  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: Mirth]
    #9439749 - 12/15/08 08:34 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mirth said:
I have decided to train myself in some of the techie/geek arts and was wondering if you had any suggestions .




Geeks aren't made, they're born.  :wink:

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Invisiblerchtyp
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: Mirth]
    #9441698 - 12/16/08 02:18 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mirth said:
Thankyou - I have great respect for those who create and manipulate code .
I have only delved lightly into geek orientated activities in the past -cracking - a tiny bit of hacking and just playing with odd software and making experiments- which reminds me - have you ever heard of or used a program called "speederXP" ?- oh what fun - it speeds up lots of xp without overclocking -  anyway -
Im thinking some sort of programming and a little hacking because it is so cool .

Basically I dont have the time to learn everything I wish in the computer realm but wish to learn some really unique geeky things and must focus .

Does the anti-geek idea arise mostly from jealousy I wonder ?

I would like to find out how rainbow tables work .

Anyway - be awesome -




Cracking/hacking - massively broad terms, I'm assuming you clicked a button in a program, maybe typed a password to try?
SpeederXP - you used a program, major congrats, big step!
Rainbow tables work so fast because instead of calculating the passwords to try, they have extremely huge pre-calculated databases, therefore dedicating the CPU to matching passwords instead of generating them.

I probably came off as a dick, and I'm sorry (somewhat), but you have the wrong attitude to be going into computers with.

Computers take a lot of time and a lot of dedication not to mention extremely straight-forward logic.

5 pieces of advice I can give you

1.) Always research something if you don't understand it. Learn to master google, effective googling can be a skill.
2.) Never ask another human a question unless you've done a lot of research yourself and just can't figure it out.
3.) Use the best free tutorial website there is to learn C++, the best programming language IMO.
4.) Learn to use some type of *nix operating system (Linux(so many flavours), BSD (try OpenBSD)), etc. Become a command-line cowboy.
5.) Perhaps the most important of them all - RTFM. Don't attempt your magnum opus without first learning how to draw. Start from the ground and work your way up.


Good luck on your journey to geekdom.


--------------------
Creator of The Ethnoring

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Offlinesupra
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: rchtyp]
    #9445073 - 12/16/08 05:10 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/

is the best c++ reference I have ever used..though i don't use it much at work, it was invaluable in my undergrad studies.

peace

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #9454425 - 12/18/08 05:13 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Quote:

Mirth said:
I have decided to train myself in some of the techie/geek arts and was wondering if you had any suggestions .




Geeks aren't made, they're born.  :wink:




I was about to say that!

To the OP: read slashdot.org every day. You'll be a geek in no time.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: supra]
    #9454485 - 12/18/08 05:42 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

> [SGI's STL reference] is the best c++ reference I have ever used..

The standard template library isn't really a good c++ reference.  I agree, it is a great reference for STL, but not so much for C++.  For C++, I prefer C++-faq-lite.  It covers the basics and many of the gotchas.

> C++, the best programming language IMO.

There is no such thing as "the best programming language".  There are good programming languages for certain tasks, but no language is the best language for all tasks.  For example, C++ is certainly not the best language to use for writing portable client side web scripts.  Personally, I find the complexity of C++ to be rather large, making it a poor choice of language for beginners.  It is exceptionally easy to write crappy C++ code that bloats, crashes, and runs slow because of poorly understood language constraints.  (Code that ends up with tons of anonymous copies, etc...)


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineAnnom
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: Seuss]
    #9454497 - 12/18/08 05:54 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

making it a poor choice of language for beginners.



What would be a good language for beginners?

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Invisibleohmatic
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: Mirth]
    #9454527 - 12/18/08 06:13 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mirth said:
Good day - I have decided to train myself in some of the techie/geek arts and was wondering if you had any suggestions .




install UNIX, not linux, find the appropriate hardware and learn all about it.
once your down, geekness is guarateed.


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !

Edited by ohmatic (12/18/08 06:14 AM)

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: ohmatic]
    #9454551 - 12/18/08 06:33 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

>install UNIX, not linux, find the appropriate hardware and learn all about it.

WTF?

I must say, I'm pretty disappointed with most of the responses here. The OP asked for advice about "some of the techie/geek arts" and he's been given vague instructions to learn assembly (without an explanation of what it is), C++ (and Seuss's criticism is true, it's not a very good language for beginners) - and now an instruction to get UNIX, but not Linux... why? And isn't UNIX commercial?

Come on guys. What about web design (notepad->html vs Dreamweaver)? What about networking protocols (Wireshark and netcat) or graphics stuff like Bryce (or Blender)?

Any of these are easier to get into than (say) C++, are more fun and offer more immediate satisfaction to a beginner. They'll even be a better introduction into computer programming than learning an actual language would be (that comes later). Heck, when you do consider learning a language you may as well start with Logo. Then Python.

Then write a Python program to pull in data from the internet (using a network protocol you can watch in real time with wireshark and test with netcat) and generate an HTML page based on that data that also contains an image that was dynamically generated using Blender with said Python script. You do that and you'll be a true geek. You won't get a lightsaber though. Unless you build it yourself.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: Annom]
    #9454554 - 12/18/08 06:34 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

> What would be a good language for beginners?

Anything that is strongly typed and highly structured with minimal complexity.  A good discussion of the subject: http://www.acm.org/crossroads/xrds10-4/firstlang.html

At one time I would have recommended pascal or modula-3.  Today, I would probably recommend python (or perhaps java).  I would avoid c, c++, visual-anything, perl, basic, cobol, fortran, scheme/lisp, assembly, etc...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineMHbound
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: Seuss]
    #9454937 - 12/18/08 08:37 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Start with Visual Basic .Net. I just feel like once you learn one that easy you will want to dive deeper, and start using java c/c++ etc. If you start with something difficult people give up too often.


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Invisiblearainbow
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: MHbound]
    #9458071 - 12/18/08 07:05 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MHbound said:
Start with Visual Basic .Net. I just feel like once you learn one that easy you will want to dive deeper, and start using java c/c++ etc. If you start with something difficult people give up too often.



the dude is running slackware there is no port of VB for linux and there never will be
BUT
there about 6 flavors of basic for linux


--------------------
There is more joy in heaven over one of us perfected,
  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.

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OfflineMHbound
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: arainbow]
    #9458254 - 12/18/08 07:38 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Ah...Didn't know he was running it. So, yea if you are programming in the Linux environment FOR the Linux environment basic would be probably the best option...You won't fail..You almost can't fail.

If you choose to learn .Net get something called VirtualBox and boot in to Windows while in Linux...And then run .Net from there. Or you could use WineHQ to run .Net in Linux...I think I'm not sure if it is supported, but for some reason I think it is.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: MHbound]
    #9460149 - 12/19/08 03:04 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

BASIC is a horrid option regardless of what you are doing.  It teaches nothing but bad programming habits.  If you are programming FOR linux, then learn C followed by C++.  I would still recommend Python over either of these as a first language to learn.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: Seuss]
    #9460164 - 12/19/08 03:10 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The question of a good programming language for beginners came up recently on Slashdot and I defended QBasic because it has such good graphics control. I still haven't seen a language come close to having the simplicity of QBasic's screen drawing routines which enables animation and games.

Someone responded to my post and mentioned Pygame. Apparently it's a Python module that adds all that kind of stuff. I haven't tried it yet.

I still stand by my statement that the OP hasn't indicated that he specifically wants to learn programming, compared to other "geek arts". I think there's plenty of geekiness to be learnt before programming comes up.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: zouden]
    #9460209 - 12/19/08 03:29 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

> I still haven't seen a language come close to having the simplicity of QBasic's screen drawing routines

I've not looked at QB in a long time, but I am guessing these drawing routes, et. al. are library support rather than native language elements.  Take a look at LOGO for a language that is based upon screen drawing routines.  You are also assuming (and not necessarily incorrectly) that drawing and graphics are a driving factor for somebody learning to program.  Also, as you said, programming isn't the end all (or starting point) of the "geek arts".


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: Seuss]
    #9460300 - 12/19/08 04:16 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

True, and my suggestion of QBasic was really aimed at the Slashdot question (teaching programming for kids). Kids like graphics, hence, LOGO and QBasic are good for kids. QBasic is actually better than LOGO because it also has good input routines (allowing games), and, dare I say it, the syntax in Basic is actually better than LOGO's. This is not saying much.

My language of choice is Python, or Pascal (Delphi) if I need a GUI.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineAnnom
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: Seuss]
    #9460523 - 12/19/08 06:16 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

A good discussion of the subject: http://www.acm.org/crossroads/xrds10-4/firstlang.html

At one time I would have recommended pascal or modula-3.  Today, I would probably recommend python (or perhaps java).  I would avoid c, c++, visual-anything, perl, basic, cobol, fortran, scheme/lisp, assembly, etc...



Thanks for the link and answer. I decided to get more into programming, as a hobby, a few months ago. I followed a java course a few years ago, did a lot of Matlab scripting and did some QBasic when I was a little kid. I decided to start with python now. I like it so far. I do see the advantages of c++ etc, but for quick prototyping and having fun, python seems very good.

Quote:

Someone responded to my post and mentioned Pygame. Apparently it's a Python module that adds all that kind of stuff. I haven't tried it yet.



I tried Pygame to learn programming/python, so I can't compare it to anything. Here is a screenshot of an alpha-alpha version of my first simulation "game" and first program:



You can launch a rocket from a central body, rotate the rocket, change thrust, zoom, pan, change simulation speed, stabilise it, keep it tangential to the velocity vector and crash it. It's just a little project to learn programming, nothing serious, but it's fun.

edit: crash screenshot :laugh::

Edited by Annom (12/19/08 06:26 AM)

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OfflineMHbound
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Re: Training to become a geek - what do you suggest ? [Re: Seuss]
    #9460529 - 12/19/08 06:20 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
BASIC is a horrid option regardless of what you are doing.  It teaches nothing but bad programming habits.  If you are programming FOR linux, then learn C followed by C++.  I would still recommend Python over either of these as a first language to learn.




The reason I say this is because I tried to learn C++ for my first language. I gave up 2 weeks later. If you are truly dedicated then yes there are better languages, but I feel like if people get started with something easy like Basic...And learn how easy it can be with some time, learn the basics of how languages work, and see their first few programs come out working without a whole lot of frustration...Then they are likely to continue on their programming voyage.

After I went back to Basic I was much more excited to learn Java...C...Etc.


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