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OfflineRonoS
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Letter from a Congressman...
    #941795 - 10/08/02 06:40 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Congressman Ron Paul
U.S. House of Representatives

Sept. 4, 2002

Mr. Speaker;

I rise to urge the Congress to think twice before thrusting this nation into a war without merit- one fraught with the danger of escalating into something no American will be pleased with.

Thomas Jefferson once said: "Never was so much false arithmetic employed on any subject as that which has been employed to persuade nations that it is in their interests to go to war."

We have for months now heard plenty of false arithmetic and lame excuses for why we must pursue a preemptive war of aggression against an impoverished third world nation 6,000 miles from our shores that doesn't even possess a navy or air force, on the pretense that it must be done for national security reasons.

For some reason such an attack makes me feel much less secure, while our country is made more vulnerable.

Congress must consider the fact that those with military experience advocate a "go slow" policy, while those without military experience are the ones demanding this war.

We cannot ignore the fact that all of Iraq's neighbors oppose this attack, and our European allies object as well.

If the military and diplomatic reasons for a policy of restraint make no sense to those who want a war, I advise they consider the $100 billion cost that will surely compound our serious budget and economic problems we face here at home. We need no more false arithmetic on our budget or false reasons for pursuing this new adventure into preemptive war and worldwide nation-building.

Mr. Speaker, allow me to offer another quote from Jefferson. Jefferson said: "No country perhaps was ever so thoroughly against war as ours. These dispositions pervade every description of its citizens, whether in or out of office. We love and we value peace, we know its blessings from experience."

We need this sentiment renewed in this Congress in order to avoid a needless war that offers us nothing but trouble. Congress must deal with this serious matter of whether or not we go to war. I believe it would be a mistake with the information that is available to us today. I do not see any reason whatsoever to take young men and young women and send them 6,000 miles to attack a country that has not committed any aggression against this country. Many American now share my belief that it would be a serious mistake.

First, there is a practical reason to oppose a war in Iraq. Our military now has been weakened over the last decade, and when we go into Iraq we will clearly dilute our ability to defend our country. We do not enhance our national defense by initiating this war. Besides, it is impractical because of unintended consequences which none of us know about. We do not know exactly how long this will last. It could be a six-day war, a six-month war, or six years or even longer.

There is a military reason for not going to war. We ought to listen to the generals and other military experts, including Colin Powell, Brent Scowcroft, Anthony Zinni, and Norman Schwarzkopf, who are now advising us NOT to go to war. Some have even cautioned against the possibility of starting World War III. They understand that our troops have been spread too thin around the world, and it is dangerous from a purely military standpoint to go to war today.

There is a constitutional argument and a constitutional mistake that could be made. If we once again go to war, as we have done on so many occasions since World War II, without a clear declaration of war by Congress, we blatantly violate the Constitution. I fear we will once again go to war in a haphazard way, by executive order, or even by begging permission from the rotten, anti-American United Nations. This haphazard approach, combined with a lack of clearly defined goal for victory, makes it almost inevitable that true victory will not come. So we should look at this from a constitutional perspective. Congress should assume its responsibility, because war is declared by Congress, not by a President and not by a U.N.

This is a very important matter, and I am delighted to hear that there will be congressional hearings and discussion. I certainly believe we should have a balanced approach. We have already had some hearings in the other body, where we heard only one side of the issue. If we want to have real hearings, we should have a debate and hear evidence on both sides, rather than just hearing pro-war interests arguing for war.

There are even good political reasons for not initiating this conflict. War is not popular. It may seem popular in the short run, when there appears to be an immediate victory and everyone is gloating, but war is not popular. People get killed, and body bags end up coming back. War is very unpopular, and it is not the politically smart thing to do.

There are economic reasons to avoid this war. We can do serious damage to our economy. It is estimated that this venture into Iraq may well cost over a hundred billion dollars. Our national debt right now is increasing at a rate of over $450 billion yearly, and we are talking about spending another hundred billion dollars on an adventure when we do not know what the outcome will be and how long it will last? What will happen to oil prices? What will happen to the recession that we are in? What will happen to the deficit? We must expect all kinds of economic ramifications.

There are countless diplomatic reasons for not going. All the Arab nations near Iraq object to and do not endorse our plans, and none of our European allies are anxious for this to happen. So diplomatically we make a serious mistake by doing this. I hope we have second thoughts and are very cautious in what we do.

There are philosophical reasons for those who believe in limited government to oppose this war. "War is the health of the state," as the saying goes. War necessarily means more power is given to the state. This additional power always results in a loss of liberty. Many of the worst government programs of the 20th century began during wartime "emergencies" and were never abolished. War and big government go hand in hand, but we should be striving for peace and freedom.

Finally, there is a compelling moral argument against war in Iraq. Military force is justified only in self-defense; naked aggression is the province of dictators and rogue states. This is the danger of a new "preemptive first strike" doctrine. America is the most moral nation on earth, founded on moral principles, and we must apply moral principles when deciding to use military force.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Offlinevatoloco
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Post deleted by MOE THE MAD SCIENTIST [Re: Rono]
    #942351 - 10/08/02 11:06 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: vatoloco]
    #942360 - 10/08/02 11:12 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah...I agree...but afterall he is only a politician. :wink:


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: vatoloco]
    #942438 - 10/08/02 11:50 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It's political rhetoric. Ya gotta suck up to your audience.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinefrogsheath
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: Rono]
    #942770 - 10/08/02 02:01 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

...and there's the disturbing argument about nuclear capability. What about that possibilty of suitcase nukes being smuggled into America? It's not addressed by the congressman. It's the one thing that worries me about Sadaam.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: frogsheath]
    #942788 - 10/08/02 02:07 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

How is a war on Iraq going to prevent that? My point is that a suitcase nuke could come from any country...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (10/08/02 02:08 PM)


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Offlinefrogsheath
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: Rono]
    #942804 - 10/08/02 02:14 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

...I'm no expert obviously but I was under the impression that the U.S. government considers Iraq's nuclear aspirations more threatening than say Iran's. I don't know.... pretty soon everyone's gonna have suitcase nukes I guess.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: frogsheath]
    #942817 - 10/08/02 02:18 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

In my opinion, the only reason Iraq would use a nuke on the U.S. was if the U.S. kept pushing Iraq to the point where they had little other choice...oh wait... :ooo:


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisiblesuperpimp
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: Rono]
    #943002 - 10/08/02 03:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Ron Paul has been on the wrong side of every arguement he has ever made. Why should it be any different this time?
The fact that Paul is against war means that war is probably a good idea.


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Offlinefrogsheath
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: superpimp]
    #943307 - 10/08/02 05:21 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

How can we overlook the oil factor of this considering Bush and Cheney?  I am very confused. :crazy: 


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Offlineuno
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: frogsheath]
    #947966 - 10/10/02 01:14 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Oh,have no doubt the US will also be attacking Iran some time after Iraq. Iran and North Korea have nuclear programs far beyond Iraq.


--------------------
- uno


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: frogsheath]
    #948311 - 10/10/02 06:11 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

but I was under the impression that the U.S. government considers Iraq's nuclear aspirations more threatening than say Iran's

First we give arms and money to Hussein to fight Iran. He was already a butcher at the time. Now we have turned both countries against us with our pawn playing. Our politicians are doing a great job of turning world opinion against us. Hitler lost WWII because he thought he was invincible and overextended himself. The USA will likewise suffer because of it's overinflated self opinion.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: superpimp]
    #948376 - 10/10/02 06:41 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

Ron Paul has been on the wrong side of every arguement he has ever made.



So you are against liberty and don't think the U.S. government should operate within the bounds of it's charter (The Constitution)?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (10/10/02 06:42 AM)


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Invisiblesuperpimp
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: Evolving]
    #949482 - 10/10/02 01:15 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Who said anything about being against liberty? He is envoking his Constitutional right to be wrong.... over, and over, and over again. I have no problem with that. Everyone has the right to be wrong. I envoke my Constitutional right to think that people like Ron Paul are full of shit. See, everyones rights are protected this way.


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: Rono]
    #953209 - 10/11/02 08:26 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Dubya is an idiot.

I do not know the "REAL" reason for this war against Iraq. Only Dubya and his cronies do. But the official reason is a pre-emptive stike just in case they are developing nuclear weapons.
Ok, considering that, we are pissing off several other countries who all HAVE thousands of nuclear weapons. Russia (who we kind of have a history of tense nuclear standoff with) has thousands themselves (supposedly over 3000 still active after the last agreement) and they are telling us not to go to war. The same goes for Germany. Ok does this make sense to anybody else?? It doesn't to me, but then again I'm not an idiot like Dubya.


--------------------
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: postalboy]
    #953283 - 10/11/02 09:01 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

do not know the "REAL" reason for this war against Iraq.




The "real" reason as seen by a Canadian:
The US gov needs a "cause" for the American people. They need a distraction, something to keep their cattle focused on maximum production. War is perfect for their needs. It gives the media an unlimited ammount of propaganda to "report". Going to war means industry has to step up production. Most of all war gives the American public something to think and talk about other than the unfortunate truth they are trying to ignore: that they are all just slaves with only the illusion of control over their own lives.

Peace-time gives people time to think about the problems of their own country as opposed to those of another country.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: trendal]
    #953305 - 10/11/02 09:13 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

"War is the health of the state."



--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: Evolving]
    #953325 - 10/11/02 09:22 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

You got it.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: Rono]
    #953524 - 10/11/02 11:22 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Iraq is not about US security. It's about Israeli security. I feel more patriotism for Israel than for the US. I am in favor of military conquest of Iraq for that reason.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineLarrythescaryrexS
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Re: Letter from a Congressman... [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #953909 - 10/12/02 01:28 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

ya been in the crack tonight, RG?


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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