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ronjohn7779
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Registered: 10/28/08
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How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle?
#9406598 - 12/10/08 02:03 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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My burning questions are... 1.How should fully colonized bulk sub look in the middle you know if you cut the whole thing down the middle or digged in the middle core of the growth?
2.Shouldn't it be the same lovely white color as the colonized top layer?
Added infoI recently had some problems with overly wet coco coir. I was wondering my bulks before I broke them up to recolonize had a lot of brown underdeveloped coco coir in the middle. My first tub had a lot of brown in the middle. Same goes for my second tub. My second tub however was more molded (into a shape, not the contamination) and held in place by the the mycelium. It still was however a dark brown in the middle. I'm just making sure my hunch was right and that they weren't fully colonized. I could have sworn they were suppose to be fully white down to the core... Both looked like this in the middle and parts of the bottom... this a pic of my first tub. My second one had a bit more white to it. My first tub broke up like a jigsaw puzzle when I went to dunk it before my first fruiting...everyone here thought it was dry... Both are about 3-4 weeks old. *they have no contaminations. I'm 99% positive they were just too wet and it stalled out their growth in the middle to bottom layers* Also my first tub is recolonizing pretty nicely and that's another good sign of a lack of contams...Knock on wood!
-------------------- "Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!" An American Hero Iron Mike!
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ronjohn7779
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Re: How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle? [Re: ronjohn7779]
#9407060 - 12/10/08 03:12 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Bump I know someone here can give a straight answer.
-------------------- "Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!" An American Hero Iron Mike!
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LouiseLouise
starstruck



Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 3,898
Loc: Searching w/my good eye c...
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Re: How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle? [Re: ronjohn7779]
#9407118 - 12/10/08 03:22 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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What exactly is your sub? Do you see mycellium flowing through the "uncolonized" areas?
According to the pic. it looks uncolonized and nutes or moisture is the question.
Personally, I like cowshit.
-------------------- "That's why you get in close to them, and then take the picture!! Don't be a pussy!" ~CC
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir



Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle? [Re: ronjohn7779]
#9407137 - 12/10/08 03:24 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Coir is honestly a pretty tricky bulk material to work with since the weight of two hydrated bricks of coir is that of a gallon of water coming down on the lower portions of the substrate, also, the beneficial bacteria (I can never remember the name) in coir in conjunction with the heat generated by the mycelium can very easily get the core of the substrate to a temperature unfavorable to mycelium growth
One work around is simple, just use more spawn.
the other is to use vermiculite to create a airy bulk substrate.
A picture of a 21gal tub, I used two bricks of coir, two coffee filters worth of spent grounds and six liters of WBS spawn, the tub is coming along nicely but I had the same concerns as you since I did not have any vermiculite on hand I just used a higher spawn ratio 

You can pull away on the side of a tub and use a flashlight to check to see if the sides are fully colonized, Should give you a good indication that the center is colonized since the sides of tubs are almost always the last place to show growth.
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ronjohn7779
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Re: How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle? [Re: HybridprX]
#9407248 - 12/10/08 03:40 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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These suggestions are all fine and dandy (and I appreciate them a lot I really do)but my two concerning questions were on how coco coir bulk sub should look in the middle. I imagine due to my limited knowledge that it should be one massive chunk of white myc throughout...
Quote:
LouiseLouise said: What exactly is your sub? Do you see mycelium flowing through the "uncolonized" areas?
According to the pic. it looks uncolonized and nutes or moisture is the question.
Personally, I like cowshit.
I'm growing on coco coir...and the sub looked good and smelled fine. It was coco-coir with some white mycelium holding things up. Some parts had nearly no mycelium. But it wasn't all white as you can see and it broke apart when I tried to take it out of the tub.
Quote:
HybridprX said: Coir is honestly a pretty tricky bulk material to work with since the weight of two hydrated bricks of coir is that of a gallon of water coming down on the lower portions of the substrate, also, the beneficial bacteria (I can never remember the name) in coir in conjunction with the heat generated by the mycelium can very easily get the core of the substrate to a temperature unfavorable to mycelium growth
One work around is simple, just use more spawn.
the other is to use vermiculite to create a airy bulk substrate.
A picture of a 21gal tub, I used two bricks of coir, two coffee filters worth of spent grounds and six liters of WBS spawn, the tub is coming along nicely but I had the same concerns as you since I did not have any vermiculite on hand I just used a higher spawn ratio 

You can pull away on the side of a tub and use a flashlight to check to see if the sides are fully colonized, Should give you a good indication that the center is colonized since the sides of tubs are almost always the last place to show growth.
I spawned everything on a nearly 1 to 1 ratio (thats a bit of an exaggeration but it was a lot of spawn)...so that shouldn't have been the problem it most likely was too much moisture in the coco coir that stalled things up.
Also on both my tubs the sides were 100% colonized (even on the lower level). The side on one of the tubs was actually drying up so I thought the tub need a dunk before fruiting (it wouldn't fruit for a over a week). I then disovered that it wasn't fully colonized. But as you moved to the middle area (not the middle layer) it seems like the bottom layer to the middle layer didn't colonize to a 100% only the top did. Anyway I ended up mixing everything up to get an even growth on both tubs. I just wanted to know how the middle of 100% colonized sub should look if you dug into it or cut the sub in half.
-------------------- "Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!" An American Hero Iron Mike!
Edited by ronjohn7779 (12/10/08 03:48 PM)
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ronjohn7779
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Re: How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle? [Re: ronjohn7779]
#9407309 - 12/10/08 03:49 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Anyone else want to give them two questions a go...
1.How should fully colonized bulk sub look in the middle you know if you cut the whole thing down the middle or digged in the middle core of the growth?
2.Shouldn't it be the same lovely white color as the colonized top layer?
-------------------- "Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!" An American Hero Iron Mike!
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir



Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle? [Re: ronjohn7779]
#9407767 - 12/10/08 04:58 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sorry Ronjohn7779 I tend to start ranting during my replies and forget what it was I was answering lol
The center should be completely colonized by mycelium and yes it should be the same color as the surface, pure white. Your sub is defiantly not finished colonizing.
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Spongiform
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Re: How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle? [Re: HybridprX]
#9407882 - 12/10/08 05:15 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Could try mixing up the whole tub and letting it re-colonize. Sorta like shaking a jar of grain but on a larger scale. Might want to add some vermiculite to the mix when you do it too, to lighten it up some.
Before I case my tub, I'm gonna do a 'core sample' type thing and make sure it's colonized all the way through since it's pretty deep (5-6 inches).
I layered it pretty good. One solid layer of grain at a time, then about half an inch of substrate over and over. I figure that way, the mycelium only needs to colonize 1/4" in any given direction to fully colonize the whole tub.
Lookin pretty good so far - only on day 3 but the top is pretty fuzzy.
-------------------- Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.
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billyboy36
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Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 352
Loc: Canada
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Re: How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle? [Re: ronjohn7779]
#9409393 - 12/10/08 09:17 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Did you cover the substrate with anything while it colonized i.e., foil, syran wrap etc?
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shroomophile
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Registered: 08/20/02
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Loc: USA
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Re: How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle? [Re: billyboy36]
#9409572 - 12/10/08 09:54 PM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Simply,you may have not waited long enough.
-------------------- Once the mighty oak,was a nut who held his ground.
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ronjohn7779
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Re: How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle? [Re: Spongiform]
#9411941 - 12/11/08 10:30 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
HybridprX said: Sorry Ronjohn7779 I tend to start ranting during my replies and forget what it was I was answering lol
The center should be completely colonized by mycelium and yes it should be the same color as the surface, pure white. Your sub is defiantly not finished colonizing.
Oh thank you for the answer. Yeah that's what I figured.
Quote:
billyboy36 said: Did you cover the substrate with anything while it colonized i.e., foil, syran wrap etc?
I covered the monotub with a blanket. I didn't put anything on top of the sub until I tried to fruit (I placed a layer of wax paper and then I discovered it wasn't fully colonized when I thought it was dry).
Quote:
shroomophile said: Simply,you may have not waited long enough.
I waited 2 weeks on my first tub and three weeks on the second. It most definitely was too wet in there. Even after I mixed the second tub I can see moisture build up. I bet the current moisture in the second tub is fine.
Quote:
Spongiform said: Could try mixing up the whole tub and letting it re-colonize. Sorta like shaking a jar of grain but on a larger scale. Might want to add some vermiculite to the mix when you do it too, to lighten it up some.
I remixed the first tub ages ago and it's recovered quite nicely. No smells and no strange growths! My second tub I mixed up yesterday. So we'll see how that goes.
Funny how only one person in this entire thread answered my original questions...I'm starting to think people don't read thread information or titles around here... (this is an all to common occurrence around here)P.S. Thank you HybridprX for the answer...and thanks everyone else for your information even though it might not have been the most relevant information, I still appreciate you taking the time to shed some light on my situation.
-------------------- "Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!" An American Hero Iron Mike!
Edited by ronjohn7779 (12/11/08 10:34 AM)
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billyboy36
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Re: How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle? [Re: ronjohn7779]
#9412096 - 12/11/08 11:02 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
According to the pic. it looks uncolonized and nutes or moisture is the question.
You're question was answered immediately. And you half answered your own question in the question itself: "1.How should fully colonized bulk sub look in the middle you know if you cut the whole thing down the middle or digged in the middle core of the growth?"
From there we assumed your next question was going to be why it only partially colonized. Which we quickly tried to get to the bottom of. There's a lot of threads with a lot of questions that a lot of people try to answer and help people out. Sometimes we don't have a long time to sit and wait for obvious answers so we assume which the poster should sometimes do as well. I'm not flaming, just explaining our position. I hope you get the problem figured out and your next grow works out for you.
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ronjohn7779
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Re: How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle? [Re: billyboy36]
#9412142 - 12/11/08 11:11 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Billy I still don't think you read the original post... and no my question wasn't answered immediately. clearly I had two questions and I labeled them as such and my thread's title is a question...(I never asked why this is happening)Anything else was additional info (and I labeled it as such). I only provided this info because I knew people would be asking mad questions. Also under my additional info section I already had the hunch that excess moisture was the problem...Nutrient too are a possibility but because how the first tub nearly over night recolonized to 15% is leading me to believe that might not have been a problem at all and since it happened to two tubs of equal moisture levels makes me think it was too wet.
Edited by ronjohn7779 (12/11/08 11:17 AM)
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billyboy36
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Re: How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle? [Re: ronjohn7779]
#9412160 - 12/11/08 11:16 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I read it. So you were looking for something like this:
1. white
2. yes
?
And that would have been it?
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ronjohn7779
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Re: How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle? [Re: billyboy36]
#9412164 - 12/11/08 11:17 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes!
-------------------- "Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!" An American Hero Iron Mike!
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billyboy36
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Posts: 352
Loc: Canada
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Re: How should fully colonized bulk substrate look in the middle? [Re: ronjohn7779]
#9416006 - 12/12/08 01:11 AM (15 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm just standing up for the masses... we all knew that. and yes, your question was answered by the first person. Your shit was uncolonized. which immediately brought the question of why. And I know that I don't stand alone. Every person that responded knew that based on the first response that your shit wasn't colonized and you knew that too. So we sought out the reason why. I just don't like it--no matter how nice you put it--you crewed us out for not giving you the answer to an obvious question. We try oh so hard to help on every level; hence the extended answers. Yet we're yelled at for helping you. If you knew the answer, why even ask?
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