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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #9415050 - 12/11/08 07:08 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KrishnaDreamer said:
your argument is the same as anti-gun proponants, people should not have guns, but only rely on police.




I'm not arguing for banning guns; I'm simply saying that there are certain instances where police are necessary.  To argue that they're irrelevant is deluded.

Quote:

anyone420 said:
My argument has already been made. By myself and about 1000 different scholars.  Your just some fuckhead on an internet forum that hasn't figured it out yet, or just refuses to.  And i feel sorry for you.  peaaaace




I see no argument here, only poor logic, ad hominem fallacies, and condescension.  Nice try, though.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9415058 - 12/11/08 07:10 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

When i was under aged this was definitely the case. I could walk up to a dealer and ask for any drug available no questions asked.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: DimensionX]
    #9415067 - 12/11/08 07:11 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

How hard is finding the dealer, though, in comparison to being able to purchase a legal drug such as Tylenol at your local Walgreens?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleKrishnaDreamer
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Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 4,132
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9415069 - 12/11/08 07:11 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I'm not arguing for banning guns; I'm simply saying that there are certain instances where police are necessary.  To argue that they're irrelevant is deluded.




i'm not arguing against policing, but only against the entity or organization called the police.


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Everybody's a ninja...

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OfflineShamanintraining
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Registered: 12/05/07
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9415078 - 12/11/08 07:13 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The Netherlands drug policy says otherwise, deCypher.  Marijuana use has dropped from when it was illegal.  It only slightly raised for 2 years after the current policy was adopted.  I can for see the same thing happening in the US, but only for soft drugs.


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"Leave your mind alone and just get high"

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #9415079 - 12/11/08 07:13 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KrishnaDreamer said:
Quote:

nor do they support their use.




and making it legal will cause them to change their views?




Probably.  Fear of criminal penalties provides a significant deterrant to most law-abiding folk.

Quote:

KrishnaDreamer said:
Quote:

I'm not arguing for banning guns; I'm simply saying that there are certain instances where police are necessary.  To argue that they're irrelevant is deluded.




i'm not arguing against policing, but only against the entity or organization called the police.




What?  Doesn't policing require a police?

Quote:

Shamanintraining said:
The Netherlands drug policy says otherwise, deCypher.  Marijuana use has dropped from when it was illegal.  It only slightly raised for 2 years after the current policy was adopted.  I can for see the same thing happening in the US, but only for soft drugs.




I agree that marijuana, with its low addictive factor, might prove an exception to the rule.  I have a hard time believing that the same thing would be true for coke or heroin, though.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Offlinesupra
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9415088 - 12/11/08 07:15 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Illegal drugs are easier to obtain than alcohol for underage kids:  FACT.

If any drugs, even marijuana, that are currently illegal are legalized, they will be regulated:  FACT.

Your argument makes no sense here, as you are trying to prove how drug legalization is flawed through a scenario that would never happen.  In your scenario you are right, but the scenario itself is fundamentally flawed.

peace

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OfflineShamanintraining
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9415089 - 12/11/08 07:15 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

KrishnaDreamer said:
Quote:

nor do they support their use.




and making it legal will cause them to change their views?




Probably.  Fear of criminal penalties provides a significant deterrant to most law-abiding folk.




I think fear of criminal penalties deters people from soft drugs but the horror stories of addiction and overdose is the real deterrent from the hard drugs.


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"Leave your mind alone and just get high"

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InvisibledeCypher
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Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: supra]
    #9415098 - 12/11/08 07:18 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

supra said:
Illegal drugs are easier to obtain than alcohol for underage kids:  FACT.

If any drugs, even marijuana, that are currently illegal are legalized, they will be regulated:  FACT.

Your argument makes no sense here, as you are trying to prove how drug legalization is flawed through a scenario that would never happen.  In your scenario you are right, but the scenario itself is fundamentally flawed.

peace




The whole scenario changes if you throw in regulation into the mix, sure.  I'm only arguing against unlicensed legalization.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleKrishnaDreamer
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Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 4,132
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9415147 - 12/11/08 07:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Probably.  Fear of criminal penalties provides a significant deterrant to most law-abiding folk.




that is most likely false, for the most part, people are just raised to not use drugs. criminal penalties probably don't contribute to deter people from using either, see 1920's prohibition and speak-easys.

Quote:

What?  Doesn't policing require a police?




as opposed to a "police" force, i propose local civilian militias and being a good neighbor.

btw, site go down for 30 minutes or so?


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Everybody's a ninja...

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OfflineTedwilto
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9415150 - 12/11/08 07:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

My god. You sir are dense.


--------------------

Song of the week, click Huey:



Song of the week list in journal.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #9415164 - 12/11/08 07:54 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KrishnaDreamer said:
Quote:

Probably.  Fear of criminal penalties provides a significant deterrant to most law-abiding folk.




that is most likely false, for the most part, people are just raised to not use drugs.




But the point is why they were raised not to use drugs... perhaps because the action is illegal?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleKrishnaDreamer
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9415186 - 12/11/08 07:57 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

umm... or because of religious beliefs or living a "clean" and "pure" life?

what about straight edgers?


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Everybody's a ninja...

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InvisibledeCypher
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Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #9415193 - 12/11/08 07:58 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

That's probably a deeper reason, which in turn motivates making the drugs illegal.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Offlinedoom876
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Registered: 08/01/08
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9415199 - 12/11/08 08:00 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I think it was put well when the analogy of Friedman's economic ideas . It seens idyllic, but attempting to make predictions about ideas like these in a rather unorganized, unpredictable world is tough.

Even having the idea, that after the drug war if drugs were legalized that they would be unregulated is pretty dense(even the most optimistic knows this, with the damage done compromises may need to be made). They will be, hypotheticals of nearly impossible situations are annoying.


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Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)

Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.

Edited by doom876 (12/11/08 08:15 PM)

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: Tedwilto]
    #9415202 - 12/11/08 08:00 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tedwilto said:
My god. You sir are dense.




Dense for trying to argue a position counter to my own beliefs?

It's called playing Devil's Advocate, and questioning one's own principles (such as the right of every person to alter their own consciousness, or that all drugs should be legalized) is tantamount to developing a healthy ideology.

I find it funny how so many people get riled up on here, calling me an idiot, dense, or a weasel in one instance.  :lol:  Have you ever stopped to think about the other side of the issue, or why society as a whole does not want drugs to be legalized?

Legalizing drugs with restrictions is probably the healthiest way to go about things, but there are still fundamental flaws with advocated unlicensed, unregulated, un-age limited access to all drugs regardless of addictiveness, which was the whole point of the OP.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleKrishnaDreamer
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9415219 - 12/11/08 08:03 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

sorry but i'm not religious, so religious decrees or laws based on them don't really jive with me.


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Everybody's a ninja...

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #9415228 - 12/11/08 08:03 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KrishnaDreamer said:
sorry but i'm not religious, so religious decrees or laws based on them don't really jive with me.




Concurred.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleKrishnaDreamer
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9415248 - 12/11/08 08:06 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

or why society as a whole does not want drugs to be legalized?




one word, propaganda.

reefer madness anyone?


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Everybody's a ninja...

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #9415252 - 12/11/08 08:08 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

That's not a reason, that's a modus operandi.  :tongue:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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