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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: feifen]
    #9414694 - 12/11/08 06:21 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

feifen said: You can't blame lack of motivation on drugs, if a lazy person smokes weed, then they get lazy. If a motivated person smokes weed, they can stay motivated.




Quote:

A 2008 study suggests that long-term, heavy cannabis use (>five joints daily for >ten years) are associated with structural abnormalities in the hippocampus and amygdala areas of the brain. The hippocampus, thought to regulate emotion and memory, and the amygdala, involved with fear and aggression, tended to be smaller in heavy and long term cannabis users than in controls (volume was reduced by an average of 12 percent in the hippocampus and 7.1 percent in the amygdala).

Yücel M, Solowij N, Respondek C, et al (June 2008). "Regional brain abnormalities associated with long-term heavy cannabis use". Arch. Gen. Psychiatry 65 (6): 694–701.




Does a society really want its citizens with shoddy memory working for it?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414696 - 12/11/08 06:22 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I think binge drinking statistics are often flawed. Drinking specifically to get drunk can be considered binge drinking. So a teenager goes out to a party gets drunk and all of a sudden is labeled a binge drinker. This is natural adolescent behaviour.

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OfflineDragonChaser
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Registered: 04/27/06
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414702 - 12/11/08 06:22 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Its even more staggering how cases of binge drinking drop off once people hit 21 and its not as much fun as it was when it was illegal.  I've only binged about 3 times since I turned 21 (23 now) although before I was 21 I used to binge drink every time I drank.  I always figured I didn't know when I'd be able to get booze again, so I may as well indulge.  Most young people think that way.

But thanks for proving my point for me... that most people do not binge drink.


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My name is Mud

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: Shamanintraining]
    #9414705 - 12/11/08 06:23 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shamanintraining said:
Also, I don't think legality is keeping people away from methamphetamine, cocaine, and heroin.




Sure.  Those who are determined to do drugs will do them regardless.  But making things legal makes it easier to get them, period.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Offlinefeifen

Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 7,040
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: feifen]
    #9414710 - 12/11/08 06:23 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Great, you realized people will do what they want. If you are a drug user, don't be a hypocrite. Your an addict to drugs because you do drugs, then. By your logic that is what it sounds like. Guess what, people are allowed to do what they want. Good luck stopping them? I don't know why your pointing out useless information. And that's true, the Netherlands is a perfect example for marijuana. Long term, they had the same, to maybe even decreased use. It isn't a huge thing to the Dutch. Yes, some people do go get high, but hey, who's doing all the bailouts right now? Us, or the Dutch?

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OfflineDragonChaser
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414712 - 12/11/08 06:24 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Does a society really want its citizens with shoddy memory working for it?




But it doesn't mind people destroying their livers, dying from alcohol poisoning, and getting throat and lung cancer?

There are plenty of worse things than a slight decrease in short term memory function.  Pot never affected my memory anyway.


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My name is Mud

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9414717 - 12/11/08 06:25 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DragonChaser said: But thanks for proving my point for me... that most people do not binge drink.




Thanks for missing the point of my post, which was NOT about binge drinking, and thanks for bringing up diseased livers and throat cancers; I'd argue legalizing those is bad for society as a whole anyway.

Do you want to be paying taxes to support the thousands of people in hospitals due to these drugs?

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OfflineDragonChaser
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414724 - 12/11/08 06:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:Those who are determined to do drugs will do them regardless.  But making things legal makes it easier to get them, period.




It would also remove organized crime from the game, government and police corruption, clear up jail space, allow police departments to focus more on crimes that actually have victims, help increase the health of addicts, decrease addiction-motivated crime, on and on.

I feel like he's just playing devil's advocate here.  I'm out of this thread.

Quote:

deCypher said:
Thanks for missing the point of my post, which was NOT about binge drinking, and thanks for bringing up diseased livers and throat cancers; I'd argue legalizing those is bad for society as a whole anyway.

Do you want to be paying taxes to support the thousands of people in hospitals due to these drugs?




Actually, you implied that most people binge drink and chain smoke.  but they don't.
Why would we pay taxes to support people in hospitals?  We don't have universal health care.


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My name is Mud

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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414728 - 12/11/08 06:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Is that the study they did which had a sample size of five people?

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9414729 - 12/11/08 06:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I wanna see the brain results for people who have 5 to 10 pints a day for 10 years. I know of one particular case of 10 a day for 30 years and OMG. He is so fucking damaged. He even has loads of memories of things that didn't happen.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9414752 - 12/11/08 06:30 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DragonChaser said: Why would we pay taxes to support people in hospitals?




There's an interesting concept called Medicare; I suggest you look into it.

Quote:

DimensionX said:
Is that the study they did which had a sample size of five people?




Which study are you talking about?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleKrishnaDreamer
I bleed nicotine...
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Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 4,132
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414757 - 12/11/08 06:31 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

feifen said:
You can grow weed easily, probably one of the easiest plants to grow on earth. What money would you need to spend? Please elaborate.




So remove weed and insert name of chemical here.

Time spent getting high is time you could have used to go out there and chat up a lady, work on writing a book, studying harder, the list goes on.




this is fucking silly, people waste hours in a day watching television, what do you propose? that we ban free time and be forced to be productive at all hours of the day when not sleeping?

your OP has some flaws in it as well.


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Everybody's a ninja...

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Invisiblegolden1
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Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 1,707
Loc: north korea
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414759 - 12/11/08 06:32 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

DragonChaser said:
Do you want to be paying taxes to support the thousands of people in hospitals due to these drugs?




I'd rather pay to help people survive in a hospital than waste their lives away in jail

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #9414764 - 12/11/08 06:32 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KrishnaDreamer said:
this is fucking silly, people waste hours in a day watching television, what do you propose? that we ban free time and be forced to be productive at all hours of the day when not sleeping?




If we had no television, don't you think Americans might be just a little bit more productive?

Quote:

your OP has some flaws in it as well.




Such as?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineDimensionX
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Registered: 09/26/07
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414768 - 12/11/08 06:33 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

That study was done using only 15 people. The results are far from conclusive in my opinion.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: DimensionX]
    #9414772 - 12/11/08 06:33 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I've listed quite a few studies; which are you referring to?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleKrishnaDreamer
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Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 4,132
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414777 - 12/11/08 06:34 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

If we had no television, don't you think Americans might be just a little bit more productive?




yes, although i don't propose banning television, people can do whatever the fuck they want in their free time, hence the term free.


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Everybody's a ninja...

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: KrishnaDreamer]
    #9414795 - 12/11/08 06:36 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I will repeat my position because I think most of you are missing my point.

Personally, I want free time and the ability to get high.  Personally, I'm in favor of legalizing drugs.  However, I think that legalizing all drugs would make our nation far less competitive in the global economy and far less productive.  I also think that it would drastically increase the number of 18 year old kids addicted to hardcore drugs (and we're already seeing the results of more legal prescription pills such as opiates in the hands of kiddies).

Why do you think the latest trends in drug use have shown a decrease in the use of marijuana and an increase in the use of prescription pills?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: deCypher]
    #9414797 - 12/11/08 06:36 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

"Regional Brain Abnormalities Associated With Long-term Heavy Cannabis Use"

It was 15 cannabis users vs 16 non users.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Why drug legalization is fundamentally flawed. (anyone420, this one's for you) [Re: DimensionX]
    #9414821 - 12/11/08 06:40 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

That's a bit of a low sample size, I agree, but so long as the demonstrable effect was statistically significant it makes no difference.


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