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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: zouden]
    #9413544 - 12/11/08 05:45 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
I don't see why Obama would be interested in any sort of deal. What could he possibly want that would be so valuable as to risk his career? He won the election, with millions of dollars left over. There's nothing else he needs.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: Icelander]
    #9414097 - 12/11/08 06:56 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Well I grew up in the Bible belt and until recently you wouldn't find a black person in a white church. There is still plenty of racial hatred in this country although a lot of it has gone underground.




you can usually blame that on self segregation


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Offlinewildchild68
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9415652 - 12/12/08 01:55 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:

bond for Blagojevich was a mere $4500





That's pretty ridiculous.


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9416180 - 12/12/08 03:53 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

zouden said:
I don't see why Obama would be interested in any sort of deal. What could he possibly want that would be so valuable as to risk his career? He won the election, with millions of dollars left over. There's nothing else he needs.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system




If it was spoils, then Obama would be telling Blagojevich to give the senate seat to someone. Not sell it to the highest bidder. There's obviously a very different motive here, and I don't see how Obama stands to gain anything. You'd be hard pressed to pin any of this on him.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: zouden]
    #9416576 - 12/12/08 06:34 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

> I don't see how Obama stands to gain anything. You'd be hard pressed to pin any of this on him.

Obviously he wouldn't have anything to gain and everything to lose, thus he wouldn't be a part of it.  However, if it turns out that Obama (or his staff) had discussions with Blagojevich where 'deals' came up, and Obama didn't report this to the authorities, then it is pretty damning for Obama and his credibility regarding his campaign promises to clean up Washington.


--------------------
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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: Seuss]
    #9416684 - 12/12/08 07:42 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

For those not at all familiar with Illinois politics, as seems to be the case with most of you who assume these guys were fast friends because both are Illinois politicians, this Washington Post article details the relationship between Blago and Obama pretty well.

Quote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/11/AR2008121103936.html?hpid=topnews

Like every other politician in Illinois, Gov. Rod Blagojevich waited for Barack Obama's call this summer. He told colleagues that he expected a speaking role at the 2008 Democratic National Convention, a nice bit of payback for being the first governor to endorse the senator from Illinois in his campaign for president. By showing off a connection to Obama in Denver, Blagojevich hoped to repair his own diminished reputation.

Obama's campaign made speaking offers to the Illinois treasurer, the comptroller, the attorney general and a Chicago city clerk. Sen. Richard J. Durbin (Ill.) was asked to introduce Obama on the convention's final night; Rep. Jesse L. Jackson Jr. (Ill.) was told he would speak on television during prime time. Finally, fed up and embarrassed that he still had heard nothing, Blagojevich joked to a crowd at the Illinois State Fair that, yes, he also had been asked to speak -- at 4 a.m., in a Denver area men's bathroom.

Long before federal prosecutors charged Blagojevich with bribery this week, Obama had worked to distance himself from his home-state governor. The two men have not talked for more than a year, colleagues said, save for a requisite handshake at a funeral or public event. Blagojevich rarely campaigned for Obama and never stumped with him. The governor arrived late at the Democratic convention and skipped Obama's victory-night celebration at Chicago's Grant Park.

Even though they often occupied the same political space -- two young lawyers in Chicago, two power brokers in Springfield, two ambitious men who coveted the presidency -- Obama and Blagojevich never warmed to each other, Illinois politicians said. They sometimes used each other to propel their own careers but privately acted like rivals. Blagojevich considered Obama naive and pretentious and dismissed his success as "good luck." Obama disparaged Blagojevich for what he viewed as his combativeness, his disorganization and his habit of arriving at official events half an hour late.
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Under different circumstances, friends said, Obama might have derived some satisfaction from seeing Blagojevich handcuffed for allegedly trying to sell off Obama's vacated Senate seat to the highest bidder. But, only six weeks after Obama won the presidency by casting himself as a reformer, the Blagojevich scandal is a jarring reminder that Obama's political origins are in a city and state long tainted by corruption.

Blagojevich was elected in 2002 as a reform governor, but he has faced a series of investigations and charges of ethical irregularities ever since.

"Obama saw this coming, and he was very cautious about not having dealings with the governor for quite some time," said Abner Mikva, a former congressman and appeals court judge who was Obama's political mentor in Chicago. "The governor was perhaps the only American public officeholder who didn't speak at the convention, and that wasn't by accident. He's politically poisonous. You don't get through Chicago like Barack Obama did unless you know how to avoid people like that."

But Obama and Blagojevich shared pieces of the Chicago political network, which is why this has been an uncomfortable week for Obama's presidential transition team. Senior adviser David Axelrod once advised Blagojevich. Antoin "Tony" Rezko, a developer who was convicted in June of fraud and money laundering, raised money for both men. Robert Blackwell Jr., a longtime Obama friend, served on Blagojevich's gubernatorial transition team. Blagojevich appointed one of Obama's closest confidants, Eric Whitaker, as director of the Illinois Department of Public Health.

The president-elect's connection to Blagojevich is emblematic of his political rise in Chicago. Obama had contact with corruption, but rarely firsthand. He relied on the establishment when he needed it, but he maintained enough distance to cast himself as an outsider.

"Few people I've ever known have as good a sense about who might end up getting you in trouble," said Denny Jacobs, a retired Illinois politician from East Moline who befriended Obama when they both served in the state Senate. "It's like a sixth sense. Chicago's a mess, and he was surrounded by it. But he knew the people that could drag you down and tarnish your image."

Even though they both began their careers in Chicago, Blagojevich and Obama operated on distinct tracks. Blagojevich, the son of a steelworker who was born in Serbia, grew up on the city's predominantly white North Side and rode a pair of buses with his mother to his first Chicago Cubs game. He married the daughter of a gritty, deal-making alderman and entered politics as an unapologetic product -- and representative -- of the Chicago Democratic machine. He drew support from the city's white middle class and was elected to the state legislature in 1992.

Obama, a transplant from Hawaii and New York City, moved into the progressive, integrated Hyde Park neighborhood and attended White Sox games on the South Side. In his campaign for state Senate, he cast himself as the righteous alternative to what he called "old-school politics" and pitched his case to a coalition of African Americans and Hyde Park's liberal upper class.

Obama and Blagojevich rarely interacted until Blagojevich ran for governor. Obama told his friends in Springfield that he was unimpressed by Blagojevich's résumé, and he tried to lobby his friend Durbin to enter the race before deciding to support Roland Burris in the Democratic primary.

"When Blagojevich beat me, I told Barack to get on board with him," Burris said. "It was kind of like swallowing his pride a little bit, because he didn't really see that they had anything in common."

About all Blagojevich and Obama shared was searing ambition, which is what occasionally brought them together. Obama recognized that a Democratic governor could help him pass legislation and build his résumé in anticipation of a U.S. Senate run, so he helped Blagojevich's campaign as an informal adviser. Once Blagojevich was elected, he and Obama formed an awkward, arranged marriage: Obama passed a steady succession of legislation and built his reputation as a power player in Springfield; Blagojevich signed the bills and took the center seat at celebratory news conferences.

It worked just fine, Springfield politicians said, until Obama started to eclipse Blagojevich as the rising star in Illinois politics. Blagojevich never endorsed Obama in his U.S. Senate bid in 2004, and he expressed a preference for two other Democratic candidates. On the campaign trail, Obama sometimes made a point to highlight his distance from Blagojevich and the rest of the administration. "Nobody sent me," he often told his crowds.

"The governor didn't offer his support, and to be honest, we didn't really ask for it," said Jim Cauley, a Kentucky native whom Obama hired to run his U.S. Senate campaign. "We weren't going to the old hall or chasing the county chairs. We wanted to show we weren't a part of that world."
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While Obama prepared to deliver the keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, a speech that would launch him to stardom, Blagojevich was back in Springfield watching his own reputation dissolve. After a poor first term, he fought over the state budget with Democratic leaders before flying to Boston and arriving an hour late at a party held in his honor. The event was sparsely attended. Obama made only a brief appearance.

"We have one salvation, and that is Barack," Jacobs, the state senator, said at the time. "It probably knocks Blagojevich down a peg from the leadership chart."

Not long thereafter, Obama started cultivating Illinois leadership of his own. He mentored a basketball buddy, Alexi Giannoulias, and supported his run for state treasurer. He befriended Attorney General Lisa Madigan and Comptroller Daniel W. Hynes. On one night in August, Obama boosted the gubernatorial hopes of all three by inviting each to speak during the opening night of the Democratic convention. Blagojevich watched from his seat.

As Obama went on to win the presidency and his rift with the Illinois governor crystallized, Blagojevich grew increasingly desperate. In phone calls reported in the criminal complaint, he pined for a spot in the Obama administration. Maybe, the governor reasoned, he could let Obama pick his own Senate successor in exchange for a job as an ambassador or as secretary of health and human services. Or maybe Obama could set up Blagojevich's wife, Patricia, with a cushy, high-paid position on a corporate board.

But Blagojevich's solicitations went nowhere, and it became clear that Obama had abandoned him for good.

"They're not willing to give me anything but appreciation," the governor told his chief of staff, John Harris. "[Expletive] them."




--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9417179 - 12/12/08 11:23 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Well I grew up in the Bible belt and until recently you wouldn't find a black person in a white church. There is still plenty of racial hatred in this country although a lot of it has gone underground.




you can usually blame that on self segregation




Yeah right. And they self segregate because?

Don't kid yourself. I grew up there and heard what they said outside of church.:tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: zouden]
    #9417249 - 12/12/08 11:52 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

zouden said:
I don't see why Obama would be interested in any sort of deal. What could he possibly want that would be so valuable as to risk his career? He won the election, with millions of dollars left over. There's nothing else he needs.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system




If it was spoils, then Obama would be telling Blagojevich to give the senate seat to someone. Not sell it to the highest bidder. There's obviously a very different motive here, and I don't see how Obama stands to gain anything. You'd be hard pressed to pin any of this on him.





this is what i find strange.


Between 11/7 and the Blago conference call on 11/10, there were two reports from CNN.

11/9 - Source: Obama wants Valerie Jarrett to replace him in Senate

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/09/source-obama-wants-valerie-jarrett-to-replace-him-in-senate/

"(CNN) — A prominent Democratic source close to Barack Obama confirmed Sunday that Valerie Jarrett is Obama’s choice to replace him in the Senate."

11/10 - Sources: Jarrett headed to White House, not Senate

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/10/sources-jarrett-headed-to-white-house-not-senate/#more-30061

"(CNN) — Two Democratic sources close to President-elect Barack Obama tell CNN that top adviser Valerie Jarrett will not be appointed to replace him in the U.S. Senate." (Posted at 7:56 pm)


Then,

Axelrod said--counter to Blagojevich--Obama never wanted Valerie Jarrett in the Senate

"CAMBRIDGE, MASS.--Contrary to comments made by Gov. Blagojevich--according to federal wiretaps--about President elect Barack Obama wanting confidant Valerie Jarrett to replace him in the Senate, David Axelrod said Thursday that Obama's "preference was always she serve in the White House." Jarrett was tapped to be a senior advisor. Axelrod spoke at a forum at Harvard University's Institute of Politics."


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/10/sources-jarrett-headed-to-white-house-not-senate/#more-30061


Looks like Obamas team was tipped off.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: Seuss]
    #9417267 - 12/12/08 11:56 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
  if it turns out that Obama (or his staff) had discussions with Blagojevich where 'deals' came up, and Obama didn't report this to the authorities, then it is pretty damning for Obama and his credibility regarding his campaign promises to clean up Washington.




If someone on Obamas team (like his Chief of Staff!!!)
Had Knowledge of corruption and did not report it, is that a crime?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: Icelander]
    #9418275 - 12/12/08 03:05 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Well I grew up in the Bible belt and until recently you wouldn't find a black person in a white church. There is still plenty of racial hatred in this country although a lot of it has gone underground.




you can usually blame that on self segregation




Yeah right. And they self segregate because?

Don't kid yourself. I grew up there and heard what they said outside of church.:tongue:




because people usually tend to hang out with people similar
to them, ever been to someplace referred to as 'china town',
seems most of the people there are asian, it's weird how we
have areas that are predominantly black or hispanic too


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9418371 - 12/12/08 03:17 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I been to China town, hung out and ate some meals, people smiled at me even. but I never saw anyone ever ever ever ever but a white person in my church in Michigan and in any other church I attended back then. I heard those same people call em niggers outside of church.

You are kidding yourself.

Oh yea but my sister went to a mostly black Pentecostal church and was welcomed.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: Icelander]
    #9419241 - 12/12/08 05:30 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

you're talking michigan, I was referring to the south, I guess we know where the racists are as I mentioned earlier


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9419255 - 12/12/08 05:34 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I have been in churches in the south also. When I was young and more ignorant I traveled the circuit of baptist churches with some of the folk in my church.

Don't kid yourself. Or maybe you just need to.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: Icelander]
    #9419352 - 12/12/08 05:53 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

He knows he's wrong, he just won't admit it.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9419542 - 12/12/08 06:24 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Well this is the political forum.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9421835 - 12/13/08 01:30 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
He knows he's wrong, he just won't admit it.




Welcome to the mod team.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: zorbman]
    #9421883 - 12/13/08 01:40 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I have no problem with Phred, or with Pris in other forums.

But making him a mod here is an act of utter lunacy.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9421986 - 12/13/08 02:07 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
I have no problem with Phred, or with Pris in other forums.

But making him a mod here is an act of utter lunacy.




According to Seuss there were no suitable moderate or left-leaning candidates available. :lol:

Does a fish ever see the water it is swimming in?

I love the new nickname for the Ill gov.

"Pay Rod" :grin:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9422142 - 12/13/08 02:39 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
He knows he's wrong, he just won't admit it.




are you guys claiming people dont self segregate?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Illinois Governor Arrested For Selling Vacant US Senate Seat [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9423299 - 12/13/08 11:00 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
I have no problem with Phred, or with Pris in other forums.

But making him a mod here is an act of utter lunacy.




Would you have preferred me?  Bwahahahahaha.  I heard it was actually considered.  Now there's something that ought to give you the screaming fantods.


--------------------


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