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 OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
 
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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 Hope and Poker 
#9398866 - 12/09/08 11:41 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I started this thread as there appears to my eyes to be too much emotional investment for some folks in the hope and disease thread.
When I play, hoping to win does not come into play in the least. I educate myself as much as possible, attempt to make smart plays and read my opponents (as difficult as that is over the net).
Random player puts in 1/3rd of the pot to catch a 1/5 flush. A very common and retarded play. Asked why he did it replies, "I was hoping to catch a diamond to make my flush."
OC needs a flush to win. If pot odds supports a draw, he draws. If pot odds do not support a draw, he folds. There is no hoping or wishing.
If I miss (and I will do so 1 in 4 times), I do not whine and moan. I know I made the right choice with the incomplete information given.
If I fold and my flush card hits, I do not whine and moan for I know I made the right choice with the incomplete information given.
Summation: I love to play 'hopeful' players. 
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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If you despaired of ever winning a single game, would you continue to play? IOW, if you had no expectation of a positive outcome to your participation, what would motivate you to continue to spend your time playing online poker?
Despair: To lose all hope.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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 Re: Hope and Poker [Re: Veritas]
#9398890 - 12/09/08 11:45 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Isn't he differentiating between hope and positive?
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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 RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall
Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 8,508
Loc: Dirty South, NJ
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Yes, but your outlook cannot control the cards. When there is a tumor in your head, you may have some kind of effect... Just as you control your digestion without your knowledge.
Can stress affect your digestion? YES.
Can stress make you ill? YES.
Could the opposite be true? Can you see where I am going?
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RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall
Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 8,508
Loc: Dirty South, NJ
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Online poker?! BWAHAHAHA!
That removes 90% of all skill, which is playing the player (not the cards). I thought you played poker for real!
Wow, you just lost alot of cred there... 
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it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
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The idea that one's thought process can impact his physiological state is not the same as suggesting that he can "will" the outcome of a card game. You're reaching.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Looking forward to the reply.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
Online poker?! BWAHAHAHA!
That removes 90% of all skill, which is playing the player (not the cards). I thought you played poker for real!
Online I play mostly Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit tournaments which IS mostly about the cards.
Quote:
Wow, you just lost alot of cred there...
Even though I am currently #1 with 9 players remaining in a small tournament, I shall withdraw out of total shame.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
That removes 90% of all skill, which is playing the player (not the cards). I thought you played poker for real!
Addendum: Mike Caro, who wrote the poker "Book of Tells" volumes 1, 2 and 3, cannot play poker worth a damn.
A world class poker player was tested to see if she could tell when people were lying (NOT in a poker situation) and *drum roll please* she scored even with chance.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Hope and Poker [Re: Veritas]
#9398989 - 12/09/08 12:00 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
If you despaired of ever winning a single game, would you continue to play? IOW, if you had no expectation of a positive outcome to your participation, what would motivate you to continue to spend your time playing online poker?
Despair: To lose all hope.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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No more reaching than those who believe a mindstate can affect changes on the cellular level.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Hope and Poker [Re: Veritas]
#9399043 - 12/09/08 12:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Dear V, my backgammon program was the first one to win a tournament against human players. It had neither hope nor despair nor any emotion nor outlook, it just made better plays overall.
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RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall
Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 8,508
Loc: Dirty South, NJ
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
A world class poker player was tested to see if she could tell when people were lying (NOT in a poker situation) and *drum roll please* she scored even with chance.
Amarillo Slim: Poker is a game of people... It's not the hand I hold, it's the people that I play with.
It has nothing to do with lying. It's a simple matter of telling when someone is nervous or confident. Something that cannot be done over the interwebs.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Does stress affect one's physical health? If a "Type A" attitude can increase risk of heart attacks, why is it so far-fetched to consider that a positive attitude could improve health?
Even if the ONLY benefit to maintaining a positive outlook was reducing or eliminating stress, it would be significant.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Dear V, my backgammon program was the first one to win a tournament against human players. It had neither hope nor despair nor any emotion nor outlook, it just made better plays overall.
I'm not talking about winning, I'm talking about motivation to participate. Your program participated because you pushed certain keys, so it cannot be assessed according to human motivation factors. I'll ask one more time, and then I'm invoking the Icelander rule:
If you despaired of ever winning a single game, would you continue to play? IOW, if you had no expectation of a positive outcome to your participation, what would motivate you to continue to spend your time playing online poker?
Despair: To lose all hope.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Hope and Poker [Re: Veritas]
#9399113 - 12/09/08 12:16 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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If mathematical odds did not apply...
If physics failed to work...
If I was a retard...
If the world was completely different... then you might have a point.
As it is I am a wee bit disappointed by the lack of depth of your response. Bored are we?
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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OK, as you have declined to answer a simple "yes or no" question after three repetitions, I am invoking the Icelander rule. I win!
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
Amarillo Slim: Poker is a game of people... It's not the hand I hold, it's the people that I play with.
There are a hundred varieties of poker.
Amarillo Slim is a great Hold'em No Limit player.
There are six main variations of Hold'em, all requiring somewhat different skill sets. Limit Hold'em is very math-oriented.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Hope and Poker [Re: Veritas]
#9399169 - 12/09/08 12:25 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yay Vee! 
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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I agree that hope will not affect the outcome of your poker game.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Hope and Poker [Re: Veritas]
#9399252 - 12/09/08 12:41 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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My poker game or all poker games for all people for all time?
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Poker games in general. However, you can't win if you don't play. 
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Hope and Poker [Re: Veritas]
#9399510 - 12/09/08 01:23 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Dang, I only got second place. Perhaps I should have wished harder. 
BTW folks, Wednesday (12/10/08)night may be the great Mushroom/Poker Experiment. Will probably be 8-9PM PCT. I reserve the right to wuss out.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
OC needs a flush to win. If pot odds supports a draw, he draws. If pot odds do not support a draw, he folds. There is no hoping or wishing.
If I miss (and I will do so 1 in 4 times), I do not whine and moan. I know I made the right choice with the incomplete information given.
Interesting. You will miss making your flush 1 in 4 times?
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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My bad. This is what happens when I am in 3 tourneys while posting.
With 1 card to come, I will make about 1 in 5 and miss about 4 in 5.
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Ratci
Esper<3
Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 1,039
Loc: Coumbia MD
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Yeah, I agree, "you mustn't confuse bad results with a bad play" because good plays won't always yield good results and it goes the other way around as well.
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People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion. --Albert Einstein
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Hope and Poker [Re: Ratci]
#9400336 - 12/09/08 03:13 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I find it both humorous and superstitious that players who fold often want to see the next card.
I have no such interest. My only interest is in evaluating how well I played the hand; not if I would have caught the 'miracle' card. It tells me absolutely nothing.
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it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
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The house always wins Swami.
I've never understood how one can be both an empiricist and a gambler.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Not sure what you are saying.
Are you stating that it is impossible for a strong player to overcome the house rake and that no one makes a living playing poker?
*Checks tax returns for last 5 years*
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it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
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No, but you stated earlier that you play a form of poker that "IS all about the cards." How can one be a "strong player" under these circumstances, beyond knowing the basic rules?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Hope and Poker [Re: Veritas]
#9400895 - 12/09/08 04:26 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
OK, as you have declined to answer a simple "yes or no" question after three repetitions, I am invoking the Icelander rule. I win!
 One of the only rules in this forum that's worth a shit.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Gee, how can one be a strong tennis player beyond knowing the mechanics of a good stroke and how the ball bounces?
I still fail to understand your question. You want me to write a book and post it here, is that it?
Knowing 'the basics' will not tell you how to play position; how to defend against an ultra-aggressive opponent, how to optimize your win chance when way behind; how to protect your lead when way ahead; how much to bet; when to bluff or misrepresent; how to lay a trap; when to bet huge and when to check when you only have the low portion of the pot covered, and on and on.
It's so simple a caveman could do it!
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Hope and Poker [Re: Icelander]
#9400910 - 12/09/08 04:28 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Veritas said:
OK, as you have declined to answer a simple "yes or no" question after three repetitions, I am invoking the Icelander rule. I win!
One of the only rules in this forum that's worth a shit.
As unbiased a post as I have ever seen.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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I never claimed to be perfect, just correct.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
My bad. This is what happens when I am in 3 tourneys while posting.
With 1 card to come, I will make about 1 in 5 and miss about 4 in 5.
How much would you be willing to bet on your flush draw with two cards to come i.e. what would you consider "correct" pot odds?
You still on Absolute? I don't even trust those cheaters enough to download their software...
http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/false-trojan-horse-in-absolute-poker-software-update-710/
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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it stars saddam
Satan
Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Gee, how can one be a strong tennis player beyond knowing the mechanics of a good stroke and how the ball bounces?
Seriously?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
You still on Absolute? I don't even trust those cheaters enough to download their software...
As my funds on that site came from parlaying a freeroll, I have no complaints.
Quote:
How much would you be willing to bet on your flush draw with two cards to come i.e. what would you consider "correct" pot odds?
It is roughly 2.5 to 1, but there are other considerations. Can you withstand another huge bet if you miss on the next card? How much are you likely to win if you catch? (Implied pot odds.) Are you drawing to the nut flush or a lower flush? Is there are possible full house (a pair showing)? How many opponents?
And so on.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Hope and Poker [Re: Icelander]
#9407832 - 12/10/08 05:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hope and Poker 
In your dreams buddy boy. 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
BTW folks, Wednesday (12/10/08)night may be the great Mushroom/Poker Experiment. Will probably be 8-9PM PCT. I reserve the right to wuss out.
May be? Probably? Reserve the right to wuss out?
I'm thinking it's 1:3 odds you will wuss. Just a hunch of course.
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
BTW folks, Wednesday (12/10/08)night may be the great Mushroom/Poker Experiment. Will probably be 8-9PM PCT. I reserve the right to wuss out.
May be? Probably? Reserve the right to wuss out?
I'm thinking it's 1:3 odds you will wuss. Just a hunch of course.
OK OK I've seen the warning but this is Truly Relevant. The odds have changed from 3:1 to 2.8 to 1. Damn where's the 10D and AS?
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Anxiety is what you make it.
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Sventington
am what I am what I am what I am
Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 532
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Ah, absolute! I got my answer, albeit in a different thread!
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explosiveoxygen
Prophet of TGMM
Registered: 07/10/09
Posts: 1,255
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Re: Hope and Poker [Re: Veritas]
#11114510 - 09/23/09 06:16 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
If you despaired of ever winning a single game, would you continue to play? IOW, if you had no expectation of a positive outcome to your participation, what would motivate you to continue to spend your time playing online poker?
Despair: To lose all hope.
Hope is expecting certain results we have no influence over.
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The Great Mycelium (TGMM) is more than you and me, we are all part of One.
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