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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
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How is the draft any different than slavery?
    #939077 - 10/07/02 10:01 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

From a MORAL standpoint, how is the draft any different than slavery? I don't see the difference, can anyone enlighten me?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (10/07/02 10:03 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: Evolving]
    #939093 - 10/07/02 10:09 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Since we all know that there are no moral absolutes it doesn't make a difference because neither can be right or wrong. Eh? :smile:

Cheers, 


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
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Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: ]
    #939115 - 10/07/02 10:16 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well then, I guess my question is directed at those who hold a moral code (the civilized among us). Some of us have a moral compass and I would like to hear from them, how do they read it?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: Evolving]
    #939145 - 10/07/02 10:25 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well... I'm against both.
Maybe as a soldier there is a little more respectability as you get the license to kill *sarcasm*.

They both suck... if a draft ever happens again, I'm crippling the first family. :wink: 
(not a real threat... call off the men in black... *knock knock* NOOOOO!!!!!) 


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: Evolving]
    #939161 - 10/07/02 10:28 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

That's a good question. If I was ever drafted I would ditch. I'm morally against war, so I would chose my sanity over the consequences of thinking for myself. But them again, I wouldn't be drafted, I'm a small, weak girl- i doubt i could do any damage.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #939181 - 10/07/02 10:33 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I wouldn't be drafted, I'm a small, weak girl- i doubt i could do any damage.

Well, you could always make body bags.  Maybe you'd get a soft seat in communications.  There, your hands would be relatively blood-free... I mean, all you did was coordinate a massive firebombing in which only about 10,000 people were burned alive. :smile: 


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: Evolving]
    #939204 - 10/07/02 10:44 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

From a MORAL standpoint, how is the draft any different than slavery?

1)Slavery is a permanent condition, while the length of involuntary military service is finite.

2) Draftees get paid, and are eligible for veteran's benefits.

3) Ummm.... guess that's about it.

pinky


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
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Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: Phred]
    #939242 - 10/07/02 10:58 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:

1)Slavery is a permanent condition, while the length of involuntary military service is finite.



Involuntary military service can very well result in the death of the draftee. Isn't this a permanent condition? During the tenure of servitude, what is the MORAL or practical difference if his life is not his own? If a man cannot own his own life, is he not a slave?

In reply to:

2) Draftees get paid, and are eligible for veteran's benefits.



Slaves get fed and their medical conditions taken care of, their offspring are fed by their masters as well. Sure a drafteee may receive veteran's benefits to take care of medical/psychological conditions brought about by war, or get something like the G.I. bill. But what if he weren't drafted and was able to do things for himself, how much further would he be ahead? This is unknown.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #939261 - 10/07/02 11:09 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I'm turning 18 in March, so I'm getting worried about the draft. What if I get drafted? Well, on my draft card I'm going to write in "conscientious objector" so I will not have to kill the poor Iraqi children.


Edited by Anonymous (10/07/02 11:12 AM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: Evolving]
    #939275 - 10/07/02 11:15 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Involuntary military service can very well result in the death of the draftee.

Depending on the use to which they are put (mining, construction work, harvesting trees, etc.), slaves can have a pretty high mortality rate, too.

During the tenure of servitude...

DURING that time, the only difference is the salary and benefits.

Slaves get fed and their medical conditions taken care of...

Yeah, but draftees get all that PLUS actual cash money. They are not merely kept alive at a subsistence level.

Note that I am not saying the draft is morally defensible -- clearly it is not. Just pointing out that there ARE differences.

pinky


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Anonymous

Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: Phred]
    #939341 - 10/07/02 11:44 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well put.


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OfflineRemy
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Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: Evolving]
    #939780 - 10/07/02 01:57 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

In my opinion, they are two different moral issues, that are both equally horrible. Slavery demands mandatory labor, with little chance of freedom, and usually horrible treatment. Drafting somebody into military service can often mean the loss of ones life, involuntary labor, low pay, and forceful murder. Fighting in the army during war time, especially if you do not believe in what you are fighting for, is in many ways like a temporary slavery, with the very real possibility of a more permanent form "bonding." The draft is much like the modern version of slavery.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
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Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: Evolving]
    #939824 - 10/07/02 02:07 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

There is no significant MORAL difference but I think there are some social/political differences that would make it hard to compare the draft with slavery. The circumstances of the draft also makes a difference. During WWII, young men were drafted to fight in a war against a real threat that jeoperdized the very existence of our country. During the Vietman war, young men were drafted to fight in an unjust politically motivated war. There is a political, social as well as moral difference in the two cases.

I doubt that we will ever see the draft again because there is unlikely to be another "traditional" conflict between nation-states. There will be limited war (as in Iraq) and our 1 million strong "volunteer" armed forces can handle that.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #940225 - 10/07/02 04:13 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

During WWII, young men were drafted...

Umm... it's been a while since I checked, but I am pretty sure there was no draft in WWII, if by "draft" you mean inducting people into the armed forces against their will. The American military in WWII was 100% volunteer.

pinky


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Anonymous

Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: Phred]
    #940235 - 10/07/02 04:16 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Wow, I am shocked that you missed that bit of history. Even I know there was a draft during the big one.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: ]
    #940346 - 10/07/02 05:03 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Really? I knew there was in Korea, but I didn't think there was a single American combatant in WWII who was there against his will.

Learn something new every day.

pinky


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InvisibleBuddha5254
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Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: Evolving]
    #940347 - 10/07/02 05:04 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I agree with pink shark, except that there was a draft in world war two, and WW 1 and korea and Vietnam. Both of my grandfathers were drafted in WW 2. If drafted, my ass would go straight to Canada and Im not afraid to say it.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: ]
    #940364 - 10/07/02 05:09 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yep. The draft was reinstituted in 1940. The FBI was given responsibility for tracking down draft evaders.

Huh. I would have thought it was unnecessary. It certainly was after Pearl Harbor. Damn politicians. Can't trust a one of 'em.

pinky


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Anonymous

Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: Phred]
    #940597 - 10/07/02 06:37 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

:smile: :wink:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: How is the draft any different than slavery? [Re: Evolving]
    #941290 - 10/07/02 10:56 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Draft is a crime against free will... same as slavery.


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