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OfflineCannabischarlie
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The state of impending Marijuana Legalization.
    #9375414 - 12/05/08 08:23 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I think that people want to believe that legalizing Marijuana will happen instantaneously in America, but don't understand that it simply will never happen that way.

We just got another state to decriminalize it (dont remember which), I live in Colorado, it has been for years and years and years, people here realize that taking it to the level of a petty offense, like a traffic ticket, frees up a lot of time to fight real crimes. Denver has 100% legalized it for persons over 21 for up to one ounce and it is already the lowest priority in law enforcement. It is still illegal on the state level and even if at the state level it wasn't they would have to either dismiss cases of less than an ounce or go after it on the federal level, which no one would do.

I think SAFER should have not done a statewide inititative but should have tried to get it on the books in neighboring Aurora.


More people are starting to realize the truth about it, I think that as we get a lot of the misinformed older people out of the voting pool and get more people
with knowledge of the truth voting, we will see these small victories start turning into larger victories.

The true answer is that it is a grassroots campaign, no pun intended, and its the information that is going to make a change. It will be hard for the DEA and the federal government to stop listening to what the people want FOREVER.

We already know that the DEA is targeting medical marijuana dispensaries in California, and although their actions are intended to try to undo what the states have decided are their own laws, they shoot themselves in the foot and make themselves look worse.

I think at some point we will get Marijuana re-scheduled to at least 2.

Oh, by the way, to all those that say "it can't be taxed because its a plant"

Just remember that you can grow as much tobacco as you want, but you can't sell any as that would be a tax violation (kinda like brewing beer and selling it)


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  we could all use a little more sunshine.

:shrug: yeah, she's funny and somewhat interesting.  not a beauty queen, but not bad lookin.  i'd feel quite honored to fuck janine garofalo.
-tiny_rabid_birds


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InvisibleOgre812
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: Cannabischarlie]
    #9375573 - 12/05/08 08:46 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Baby steps, legalize the pot.


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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither, and will lose both.      ~ Benjamin Franklin ~

"Let me tell you about a Porcupine's balls.  They're small, and they don't give a SHIT!"  ~Danny~


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OfflineCannabischarlie
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: Ogre812]
    #9376256 - 12/05/08 10:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I agree. How have you been


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  we could all use a little more sunshine.

:shrug: yeah, she's funny and somewhat interesting.  not a beauty queen, but not bad lookin.  i'd feel quite honored to fuck janine garofalo.
-tiny_rabid_birds


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: Cannabischarlie]
    #9376853 - 12/06/08 12:44 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

power will never cede without a fight...


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: Annapurna1]
    #9377368 - 12/06/08 04:57 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Explain how decriminalizing marijuana effects law enforcement resources?  Sounds like bullshit to me.

Provide evidence that marijuana is the lowest enforcement priority in colorado- I also doubt this.


The benifits of decriminalization are minor imo.  You've got perceptions and worrying by defendants and possible convictions that might carry more weight.  That's it.


The benifits would come from legalization and enforcing general fraud and theft statutes.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: johnm214]
    #9377396 - 12/06/08 05:24 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

> The benifits of decriminalization are minor imo.

I would argue that decriminalization is actually worse because it confuses the issue.  As you said, legalization is where the benefits start to show.


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InvisibleOgre812
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: Cannabischarlie]
    #9378163 - 12/06/08 10:39 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Cannabischarlie said:
I agree. How have you been




Not too bad, been a little sick.  I haven't seen you around here that much lately. Whats goin on?


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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither, and will lose both.      ~ Benjamin Franklin ~

"Let me tell you about a Porcupine's balls.  They're small, and they don't give a SHIT!"  ~Danny~


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OfflineCannabischarlie
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: johnm214]
    #9379028 - 12/06/08 01:36 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Explain how decriminalizing marijuana effects law enforcement resources?  Sounds like bullshit to me.

er, because it makes it low priority, therefore law enforcement cares less about it, and a bag of pot is now a fine, and they send you on your way. No wasting time with a DA about a misdemeanor, they can move on to real crimes. They then notice "wow, that frees up a lot of court time" and therefore it goes to the path of legalization, such as in Denver.

Provide evidence that marijuana is the lowest enforcement priority in colorado- I also doubt this.

Denver, you obviously didnt even read my post. It states that no one is going to legalize it outright, decriminalization is the first step. Also I live here, marijuana possession is an extremely low priority, if you lived here you would see that.

The benifits of decriminalization are minor imo.  You've got perceptions and worrying by defendants and possible convictions that might carry more weight.  That's it.

I said they where minor, but they start to acheive the goal of legalization.

More and more people see cannabis as really something very mundane, and probably wonder after seeing the decriminalization benefits, will say "why is it even illegal at all?"


The benifits would come from legalization and enforcing general fraud and theft statutes.




I am not sure what fraud and theft statutes have to do with Marijuana legalization, I do think we do not go hard enough on REAL criminals who steal and commit fraud, partly because we waste time with "drug crimes" in general, to include, and especially marijuana.

On a side note, If cocaine and methylamphetamine and other drugs which are legal (to prescribe) but are often bootlegged, why not go after them for some kind of tax evasion instead? We do it here in America for bootleggers of ethanol.

It should be obvious by what I write that I would LOVE for them to just say "ok, marijuana is legal now" but it simply just isnt going to happen that way, at least not until more states and/or municipalities decriminalize it. I just saw an article here where chicago heights decriminalized it although illinois has not.

If the law clearly states "possession of under one ounce of marijuana is a petty offense, punishable by a fine" there is no "confusion" unless you just cannot read and look this stuff up.


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This section of the signature line has been intentionally left blank.

  we could all use a little more sunshine.

:shrug: yeah, she's funny and somewhat interesting.  not a beauty queen, but not bad lookin.  i'd feel quite honored to fuck janine garofalo.
-tiny_rabid_birds


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: johnm214]
    #9379387 - 12/06/08 02:30 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, you can pretty much :gethigh: where ever in Denver. No one really cares, just don't be stupid about it.


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9381926 - 12/06/08 09:49 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I would argue that you guys are going about legalization all the wrong way. Instead of proving that marijuana has medical use, prove that it has no medical use, is not intended for medical use, and isn't intended for anything at all.

You might say, what the fuck are you fucking stupid?

However... a drug is defined as articles other than food intended to affect the structure or body of man or animal or with intended therapeutic benefit. Mind you, this is all regardless of what its physical properties are and what it actually does, the only thing that matters is the VENDORS intended use.

Marijuana is already off of the USP anyway. It doesn't seem too hard to go.

Look at the American Jurisprudence definition of a drug for more on that...


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: learningtofly]
    #9382262 - 12/06/08 10:53 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Eh... frankly I'm good with the current system, but that's because I don't grow or move weight. And people in other parts of the country have it rough but hey, fuck it man. Lets get high.


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Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #9384111 - 12/07/08 10:11 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gastronomicus said:
Eh... frankly I'm good with the current system, but that's because I don't grow or move weight. And people in other parts of the country have it rough but hey, fuck it man. Lets get high.




Prisoner.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: Minstrel]
    #9385299 - 12/07/08 02:18 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

[Marijuana] is the recreational drug; the choice of a significant minority of the population...The trend in liberalization of drug laws reflect the overall change in our value system. It also has important implications for the tobacco industry in terms of an alternative product line. (The tobacco companies) have the land to grow it, the machines to roll it and package it [and] the distribution to market it" (Reference 20). In fact, some firms have registered trademarks which are taken directly from marijuana street jargon. These tradenames are used currently on little known legal products, but could be switched if and when marijuana is legalized. Estimates indicate that the market in legalized marijuana might be as high as $10 billion annually...



http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/grb10f00

Dawg I just saved the economy. Legalize marijuana ---> allow Tobacco industries to profit from it ----> Make tobacco industry pay the Master Settlement Agreement in full or perhaps just make them pay a shit load of more money ---> loads of money is pumped into economy --> GDP goes UP --> everyone gets high ---> YAY


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OfflineBrandon2874
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: learningtofly]
    #9390099 - 12/08/08 03:33 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Won't happen anytime soon too many wealth/powerful Americans view it negatively.

How many stoners do you know that run for congress or follow through with being corporate managers. Better chance legalizing blow. Just because most people smoke doesn't mean the right people smoke.

Prohibition of Weed and Marijuana are similar, but alchol has always been socially across the board while Marijuana seems to be less socially mobile in frequent users.(Poor more likely to smoke) Note this contains generalizations and I am sure someone here gets high with a CEO or Mayor, but on the larger trend I think it has some basis.


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OfflineCannabischarlie
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: learningtofly]
    #9391467 - 12/08/08 11:11 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
I would argue that you guys are going about legalization all the wrong way. Instead of proving that marijuana has medical use, prove that it has no medical use, is not intended for medical use, and isn't intended for anything at all.

You might say, what the fuck are you fucking stupid?

However... a drug is defined as articles other than food intended to affect the structure or body of man or animal or with intended therapeutic benefit. Mind you, this is all regardless of what its physical properties are and what it actually does, the only thing that matters is the VENDORS intended use.

Marijuana is already off of the USP anyway. It doesn't seem too hard to go.

Look at the American Jurisprudence definition of a drug for more on that...





I totally see your arguement on this, that does make sense.

However, Marijuana has ALWAYS been used medicinally, and different strains of Marijuana can have different effects to this. It also makes you feel good. Whats wrong with your medicine making you feel good?

It is also simply a plant, a lot of plants are not "approved by the FDA to treat, cure etc" as well as many other things you buy, but you know they work, because you take them, and then they do.

I smoke pot for a variety of reasons, not just for "recreation."

I would be willing to say that rescheduling it to at least 2 is the first step towards making it like tobacco or alcohol.

We need to stop using the "Alcohol and Tobacco are legal and are way worse"  Arguement.


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This section of the signature line has been intentionally left blank.

  we could all use a little more sunshine.

:shrug: yeah, she's funny and somewhat interesting.  not a beauty queen, but not bad lookin.  i'd feel quite honored to fuck janine garofalo.
-tiny_rabid_birds


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InvisibleGreen_T
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: Cannabischarlie]
    #9395355 - 12/08/08 09:19 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

So I was watching the O'reilly factor today and good 'ol papa bear starts talking shit about Amsterdam and calling it a "liberal cesspool". He was discussing how the government was closing cannabis cafes and brothels because there are criminal elements involved.

With decriminalization there is still crime involved. This means there is still a reason for prohibitionists to think it doesnt work and the system needs to go back to complete prohibition. What needs to happen is full legalization, and that can only happen once people push for the legalization of everything.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: Cannabischarlie]
    #9396019 - 12/08/08 10:35 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Cannabischarlie said:
Quote:

learningtofly said:
I would argue that you guys are going about legalization all the wrong way. Instead of proving that marijuana has medical use, prove that it has no medical use, is not intended for medical use, and isn't intended for anything at all.

You might say, what the fuck are you fucking stupid?

However... a drug is defined as articles other than food intended to affect the structure or body of man or animal or with intended therapeutic benefit. Mind you, this is all regardless of what its physical properties are and what it actually does, the only thing that matters is the VENDORS intended use.

Marijuana is already off of the USP anyway. It doesn't seem too hard to go.

Look at the American Jurisprudence definition of a drug for more on that...





I totally see your arguement on this, that does make sense.

However, Marijuana has ALWAYS been used medicinally, and different strains of Marijuana can have different effects to this. It also makes you feel good. Whats wrong with your medicine making you feel good?

It is also simply a plant, a lot of plants are not "approved by the FDA to treat, cure etc" as well as many other things you buy, but you know they work, because you take them, and then they do.

I smoke pot for a variety of reasons, not just for "recreation."

I would be willing to say that rescheduling it to at least 2 is the first step towards making it like tobacco or alcohol.

We need to stop using the "Alcohol and Tobacco are legal and are way worse"  Arguement.




I concur that the Alcohol/Tobacco argument is flawed because saying two wrongs make a right is ridiculous. The only thing it could be used for is to point out inconsistencies in the drug laws.

But my point was not that marijuana can't be used for medicine, just that according to the law all you have to say is that its just a fucking plant and doesn't do anything and it should technically be taken off the list. After all, in 1906 they took tobacco off the pharmacopoeia just to get the FDCA passed, there wasn't really any "legitimate" reason.

What's funny about tobacco is that the supreme court acknowledged that its the leading cause of preventable death but it said that allowing the FDA to regulate it and thus taking it off the market (the FDA said that if it was allowed to regulate tobacco it would be banned because there was no way to justify its use medically) would be more harmful to the nation than leaving it on the market because tobacco plays such a huge role in the economy.

One could argue that marijuana could be a huge source of income and that theres no reason not to put pot in the same category as tobacco (which is in its own category by itself)


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InvisibleGreen_T
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: learningtofly]
    #9396474 - 12/08/08 11:23 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Marijuana does have medical uses, but you shouldn't have to have a medical reason to smoke it.

You should just be able to say "fuck it, i want to smoke!". If anything, medical users should get their insurance companies to pay for their stash.


--------------------

"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: Green_T]
    #9402718 - 12/09/08 09:19 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Wait how are you going to have something be recreational and medicine? It would defeat the purpose of a prescription. Either its medical only or you don't need a prescription at all, you can't have both.


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InvisibleGreen_T
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: learningtofly]
    #9405090 - 12/10/08 10:12 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Red wine is recreational and can also be viewed as a preventative medicine.

The thing about marijuana that makes it different is that it has both strong medicinal and recreational value. It should be something which can be taken OTC, but if you have a medicinal need for it you shouldn't have to pay for it - because you are using it for medical purposes.

This is why the guidelines for medicinal use need to be more like Hawaii's than California.


--------------------

"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: Green_T]
    #9415493 - 12/11/08 11:32 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah but you don't need a prescription for red wine.


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OfflineCannabischarlie
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Re: The state of impending Marijuana Legalization. [Re: Seuss]
    #9459862 - 12/19/08 01:34 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> The benifits of decriminalization are minor imo.

I would argue that decriminalization is actually worse because it confuses the issue.  As you said, legalization is where the benefits start to show.




no, decriminalization does confuse the issue, but benefits start with the baby steps.

I would love for marijuana to just simply be legalized. That happened in Denver, I can drive up there and technically since I am over 21 by municipal law i can have up to an ounce of pot. First city to legalize marijuana in any actual way. a nickel bag is legal, then we would need the state to make it legal.

then the DEA would try to oppress that state right, the civil war was fought over state rights, and the DEA hates the fact that the easiest drug to "stop" isnt going to be legalized without a lot of help.


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This section of the signature line has been intentionally left blank.

  we could all use a little more sunshine.

:shrug: yeah, she's funny and somewhat interesting.  not a beauty queen, but not bad lookin.  i'd feel quite honored to fuck janine garofalo.
-tiny_rabid_birds


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