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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Tobacco [Re: Phluck]
    #962614 - 10/15/02 11:54 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I've read it in a few books on shamen and south american/native american indians. Jeremy Narby's "the cosmic serpent" mentions that the south american tribesmen he was with smoked huge amounts of tobacco and never got cancer. Whether it's to do with the natural tobacco or something else in their lifestyle that protects them I don't know.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Phluck]
    #962996 - 10/15/02 02:48 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

>>>>> No, they don't add shit to cigarettes to give you cancer, that's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. What possible reason would they have for doing that? <<<<<

Dont be stupid... Its a well known fact that shit is added to tobacco to preserve it, enhance flavor, burn regular, reduce smoke and while growing it LOTS of shit is put into it to grow uniform, be pest and desiese resistant and grow in any climate.

Lets not forget about the fact that Big Tobacco denied the fact that Nicotine was addictive for decades, while they were adding amonia and other nasty shit to make nicotine more easily absorbed into the lungs and easily processed into the blood stream.

Plus doccuments in court prove that some chemical manufacturers were bought out by Tobacco companies and their environmental impact reports were doctored to make the chemicals dammaging effects on both people and the planet non existant.

OOoh and how about all those asbestose filtered cigaretts? Unopened packs of these are going for thousands on E-Bay for evidence in tobacco lawsuits, while it was proven that asbestos causes cancer tobacco still used the shit intill ordered not to by the government.

Still... 28Billion is WAY too much for any one person. They should be made to pay the FULL amount but that money could go towards building a hospital designed for treating smoking related illness.


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GabbaDj

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Xlea321]
    #963138 - 10/15/02 03:31 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

No offence, but that's just anecdotal evidence. Has anyone ever done any studies on cancer rates in tribes?
There's no way that they can just be not getting any cancer. Cancer is the result of random mutations. There is no life that isn't mutating. It's simply not possible for cells to exist without going through various mutations.



--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Tobacco [Re: GabbaDj]
    #963144 - 10/15/02 03:34 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Well, you read the first sentence in that paragraph, but completely ignored the second.

"They add some things to the tobacco for various reasons, and some of those things happen to be carcinogenic, but they don't do so to make cigarettes more dangerous."

See? If you bother to read the whole thing you'll see I'm making perfect sense.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Phluck]
    #967475 - 10/16/02 11:57 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Phluck yes it may be true with the embalming fluid thing that was hear say, i really don't know anything about that, but go to www.pot-tv.com and check out the freedom to pursite happyiness video-clip!

If you believe in the New World Order, youll know that it is that it easyer to control the worlds populations by reducing numbers.They can't go off just killing people it has to look like natural causes! AIDS, and many other cancers are only created tryanny, there are many cancer treatments out there, but the only few that many use is chemo?? You nuke the body to rid cancer?? I though alot of the commen cancers are due to radoactivity in our lives weither it be, lung cancers (radioactive feritilzers used to grow tobacco), Breast cancers (much of it based in what we eat), Aids is a human created virus! Marijuana has been PROVEN TO HELP or SLOW THE GROTH OF many cancers and or tumors. The goverment buts its foot down on the issue and says its a lie. There have been studys that marijuana can reduce some tumors down in one month down to half.

There will never be a LEGAL cure to cancer!!!!!


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Tobacco [Re: johnnyfive]
    #967597 - 10/17/02 12:59 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

"If you believe in the New World Order, youll know that it is that it easyer to control the worlds populations by reducing numbers."
I'm not sure what could possibly make any rational adult believe in an international conspiracy to control humanity. The fact that there is:
A) Absolutely no reasonable evidence to support such a theory, and...
B) The feasibility of anyone setting up such a program is far beyond limited, to say the least, combined with...
C) You go on to demonstrate your irrationality in the rest of your post...
simply shows that such a theory is in all probability, nonsense.

"AIDS, and many other cancers..."
AIDS and cancer are not related. In any way. AIDS is a virus, cancer is an affliction caused by random mutations that are constantly happening, in all cells, everywhere. When you get one that happens to mutate the tendency to rapidly multiply, you end up with a tumour.

"but the only few that many use is chemo?? You nuke the body to rid cancer??"

Chemo and radiation therapy are two different things, and yes you do nuke the body to kill cancer. High doses of well directed radiation are the only tools we have in many cases. You tell me there are lots of other treatments, but there really aren't. We don't know of any way that we can kill off only the cells that have the one little genetic difference from the regular healthy cells. We can use chemo (which is drugs, by the way, not radiation), which basically tries to poison the cancer cells. Of course there are all kinds of side effects, people lose their hair, and get sick and weak. Radiation, which can lead to radiation poisoning, or simply cutting out the tumour with surgery.

"I though alot of the commen cancers are due to radoactivity in our lives (radioactive feritilzers used to grow tobacco)"

Radioactive fertilizers? Huh?
The things that can increase the risk of cancer are things that increase the rates of mutation among cells. Radiation is one thing that can do this, but also carcinogenic chemicals, which happen to to be quite ample in tobacco, will serve the same purpose.

"Aids is a human created virus!"
Well, that's a theory spouted by a fairly small number of paranoid goofs. Are there reasons someone might believe it's true? Perhaps. Are there reasons any intelligent person might believe this is true? Certainly not.

"Marijuana has been PROVEN TO HELP or SLOW THE GROTH OF many cancers and or tumors."
Actually, no it hasn't. There haven't been any studies that have shown this. Plus, if you had any knowledge of the scientific process, you wouldn't have used the word "proven", you'd have said "been shown to".

"There have been studys that marijuana can reduce some tumors down in one month down to half."
Due to some blatant abuse of the english language, I have no idea of what exactly you're trying to say here, but if you could perhaps cite the studies, I'd be more than happy to look them over.

You're obviously completely clueless about basic biology and cancer.

I've lived my entire life getting cellular biology and cancer lessons at the dinner table. That's what happens when you have a father who's a prominant cancer and genetics researcher. I'm not trying to brag, but I definately know what I'm talking about here.

Unless my father is actually just being paid off by the "New World Order".


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Phluck]
    #967667 - 10/17/02 01:23 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

It's a well known fact that the entire cancer and genetics research industry is on the payroll of the "New World Order." :wink: 


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Evolving]
    #968584 - 10/17/02 11:44 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

A mind works best when its OPEN!

GW has already been questioned about the NWO, and made the comment "A place where all people could live in peace and procperiety?" There is such thing as a NWO, and its rearing its head now. FOOL if you understand the NWO, youll understand that NO you dad won't be payed by the One world Goverment. It works like a pyramind, Only the people at the top knows whats going on, and the lies would only trickle down from there. Just cus all of the info about it shows other wise, understand Corperations control the NWO/OWG (New World Order, and the One world goverment). And its corperation that cause all of the bull shit!

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and the cause me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corperations have been enthroned, and era of corruption in high places will follow, ... and the money-power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the republic is destroyed." - President Lincoln sent a letter to Col. Williams F. Elkins

Its presenst is all around us, BUT do you think it would look ovious? If legend is true, do you think its going to be easy to see, or the evidence to be easy to witness?? Why would anyone want to control humanity?? Well to damm near god with all of the money-power, but i believe its also to fullfill the bibles prophecy.

Ok then if you don't believe then what that does the symbol on the back of the one dollar bill (the great seal)?? Explain that to me WITHOUT getting in to conspiracy??


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
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Registered: 02/15/01
Posts: 1,959
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Re: Tobacco [Re: johnnyfive]
    #968624 - 10/17/02 12:08 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Go to the FDA or DEA sights go to any page and search for tobacco or any subrivitive... Didnt think so;


SCHEDULE I
A: Drug has no current accepted medical use.
B: Drug has a high potential for abuse.

Class examples: Heroin, Methaqualone, LSD, Peyote, Psilocybin, Marijuana, Hashish, Hash Oil, and various amphetamine variants.

SCHEDULE II
A: Drug has current accepted medical use.
B: Drug has high potential for abuse.

Class examples: Dilaudid, Demerol, Methadone, Cocaine, PCP, Morphine and certain cannibis, amphetamine, and barbiturates types .

SCHEDULE III
A: Drug has current accepted medical use.
B: Drug has medium potential for abuse.

Class examples: Opium, Vicodan, Tylenol w/codeine and other narcotic, amphetamine, and barbiturate types.

SCHEDULE IV
A: Drug has current accepted medical use.
B: Drug has low potential for abuse.

Class Examples: Darvocet, Xanax, Valium, Halcyon, Ambien, Ativan, and other barbiturate types.

SCHEDULE V
A: Drug has accepted medical use.
B: Drug has lowest potential for abuse.

Class examples: Lomotil, Phenergan, and liquid suspensions.


First of all... LOL at that,

WOW! Peyote is 'highly addictive'?? where the fuck is tobacco!!? The US refuses to Schedule this Cancerous plant and yet they have the audacity to schedule weed a s1?
This should be a truth commercial.

If tobacco was illegal then you'd pay 20 bux for a pack and your quit really quickly! Or you'd wander around the streets like a crack pheind jonesing for one last lonely puff.

America's second biggest addiction next to caffine, but oh well were ballers all upon our twenties...


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_______________________________________
CSC


Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

Off Topic Website


Edited by Cow Shit Collector (10/17/02 12:10 PM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Tobacco [Re: johnnyfive]
    #969096 - 10/17/02 02:47 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You've given me a few reasons why some paranoid goof might come to the conclusion that there is a new world order. You use the argument that there wouldn't actually be any evidence of this NWO if it were to exist, but taking that as evidence that is does exist is absolutely ridiculous.

If there were invisible monkeys constrolling your brain, you wouldn't see any evidence of it, but to believe that there ARE monkeys controlling your brain is moronic. I'm sure you can see that.

If my dad isn't being paid off by the NWO, then how are they altering all the research results being put out by scientists? Does this NWO have the power to alter and control the laws of nature and physics?


"Just cus all of the info about it shows other wise"
If all the info shows otherwise, then how the fuck do you come to the conclusion that there IS a new world order? By your logic, everything that seems implausible, and impractical probably is happening, just because we can't see that it is happening.

As for the one dollar bill, you've probably read that goofy chain letter and believed every word of it. Here's a text that contains actual information that's been researched:
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/dollarbill.htm
If there actually was some big government conspiracy, they would do everything they could to cover it up, just like you said. They wouldn't go around putting obvious clues on the money.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Phluck]
    #969244 - 10/17/02 03:23 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Look i tired of talking about it, ether you have a open enough mind, or not; your going to believe what you believe and im going to believe what i believe.

1. Your website was true, its just you don't understand the meaning of even what that website was talking about, and those people yes... they mentioned masons YES, that website is true, but all of those people created the ideas where people who worked for secert societys. Look just read about the topic, your website only proved me right. (sigh) JUST READ www.freedomdomain.com , NO i don't believe in little ET's flying around in little ships, thats also bullshit, the UFO type aircrafts aren't ET's, there the new aircrafts of the NWO. There played off like ET's.

2. I didn't say there will be no evidence, i was saying that its isn't going to be apparent. Dude your putting words in my mouth. LOL im not like all of the religons that say "i know theres a god, ... but i have no proff"??

3. No they would only cover up the corrupt parts of the grand conspiracy, the nwo hopes to get the people to side with the NWO, in the future. The nwo will appear to huminity as the light in a period of darkness, but in accuallity it IS the darkness.

4.Explian the Drug war for me then. Is marijuana really an EVIL plant with its roots in hell, out to swollow man kind (reefer madenss 1937), and take them to hell. EXPLIAN THE DRUG WAR SIR?

The funny shit about all of this is that, were taking our freedoms away just trying to fight these things. (drugs, terrorism) These thngs will never ever go away, and in the process, they TAKE freedoms to fight FOR freedom? YES there is a grand conspiracy to it all.


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Tobacco [Re: johnnyfive]
    #969341 - 10/17/02 03:55 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

There's a difference between keeping an open mind and being gullible.

You're still failing to supply any evidence.

No, marijuana is not an evil plant with roots in hell, and obviously the government has been stupid and shortsighted in fighting a war against it. Does this mean there's an international conspiracy? No, it doesn't. It doesn't indicate this in any way.

There are lots of reasons the drug war started, and lots of reasons that it continues to be fought. I could go on about that for pages. Politicians don't want to appear in favour of a radical or unpopular idea, they just go along with whatever the public wants so that they can get votes.

The reasons the drug war started are numerous. Everything from racism to economics, to popular opinions at the time. I'm sure you can go to your local library, or just read some things on the internet that will explain it all to you. Many historians have written about it, and done lots of research. Oddly enough, they all fail to mention international conspiracy.

In fact, you won't find any historians, political scientists, or any educated people talking about conspiracies.

To come to any sort of conclusion about conspiracies or new world order, or any other goofiness, you have to get some of your facts wrong, make wildly irrational leaps in logic, and jump to all sorts of conclusions.

It's possible to be closed minded the other way around too. If you're not willing to accept that there's a good chance that your sources may be flawed and incorrect, then you're being closed minded.

I was looking over www.freedomdomain.com. It appears that the author of that site has certainly done all the things I said in the previous paragraphs. He's got quite a few incorrect "facts", and made a lot of leaps in logic.

"I didn't say there will be no evidence, i was saying that its isn't going to be apparent."
Uh, okay. Then where's the evidence NOW. You keep telling me to think about the symbols on money, think about the drug war... I still don't see any evidence. You're still asking me to have faith in something without any solid proof whatsoever... just like those religions that say "i know theres a god, ... but i have no proff"


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Phluck]
    #969660 - 10/17/02 05:40 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not sure about any conspiracies but there's certainly examples where the establishment has controlled scientific research to produce conclusions they want. The research on Ecstacy for instance has been totally biased for decades - a research project only gets funding if it's likely to be useful for negative propaganda, the lab producing the most government-friendly research gets the most funding etc. Eventually things like this start to self-propagate without any control from above. Researchers learn to address the areas the establishment want addressed and ignore the rest, otherwise they go broke. It's a bit more subtle than a "conspiracy" but it's pretty clear it's going on all the time in many areas of science.


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Xlea321]
    #970070 - 10/17/02 07:14 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

True i don't listen to all at that site. Yes the author is a little ratical, BUT like i say i don't sit there and make my asumptions about NWO based off one site.

I was like you and the rest of the others out there, but once i started getting in to the many conspiracys of marijuana, i realized that things aren't always what they appear to be.

So now why is medical marijuana still illegal, and the dea continues to raid the shit out of californias medical marijuana clubs?? They must still think its an evil thats consuming mankind! Or were just enforceing the federal laws. lol

Wake up sheep, corperations control all things. You say prove to me that NWO exists but i say look around, the NWO IS corperations that control, that hold more wieght in our world than the people thats proof enough to start with! This forum burst on how much evidence there is out there.

Look at enron ken lay was proven guilty and STILL hasn't been indicted. When corperations do something wrong say illegal merging or whatever, there slaped on the hand with a fine! LOL LOL A FINE LOL LOL

And once agian

Why are we taking freedoms to defend freedom?? If we search everyone everywhere then we could stop crime. But our forefathers though its more important to have that right not to be searched. You really didn't get into very much detail with this drug war deal?
.


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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OfflineMsPacMan
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Re: Tobacco [Re: johnnyfive]
    #970132 - 10/17/02 07:41 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

hell yea cigs are bad, and i know it, and i am smoking one right now. its terrible and i wish i could quit. i read somewhere that since they raised the cigarette prices 1.50 in NY that smoke sales have gone down by 10 million packs! i want to see how much they have gone up in the surrounding states though. and for that post in the beginning, i agree. cigarettes should be illegal and not sold in stores. i know i would pay weed prices to smoke some cigarettes....there will probably be a lot more potheads though.....
de-=-


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Tobacco [Re: johnnyfive]
    #970568 - 10/17/02 10:36 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You're still making leaps of faith in your arguments.

"So now why is medical marijuana still illegal, and the dea continues to raid the shit out of californias medical marijuana clubs?? They must still think its an evil thats consuming mankind! Or were just enforceing the federal laws. lol"


They do it because they can. They want to make as many arrests as possible. They want to look good. They like the power.

There's tons of good explanations that seem plenty plausible, and don't require you to believe in something like a giant international conspiracy.

"Wake up sheep, corperations control all things. You say prove to me that NWO exists but i say look around, the NWO IS corperations that control, that hold more wieght in our world than the people thats proof enough to start with! This forum burst on how much evidence there is out there."

Everyone knows money equals power, and anyone can see that a rich corporation has a lot of control, but there's no evidence that they're all linked together in a giant conspiracy. You've got all these separate entities, corporations with in the US are numberous, and they all have different goals and lobbies, many contradicting. Governments are separate from corporations, and while they're obviously influenced by corporate money, they're still comprised of politicians who have to cater to voters as well as funding from various conflicting corporations.

So where's the evidence that there's a big international conspiracy?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Tobacco [Re: MsPacMan]
    #970612 - 10/17/02 10:48 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

If you make cigarettes illegal, you'll have tons of organized crime pop up around the tobbacco trade. Just like any drugs. Alcohol prohibition caused a massive increase in organized crime, and drug prohibition is doing the same thing right now, tobacco probhibition would just do exactly the same thing.

A thought:
I think the whole conspiracy culture is fueled by intense arrogance. People are so positive that their morals are 100% right that they are unable to comprehend how someone could possibly disagree with them. They come to the ridiculous conclusion that the people who do disagree with them can't possibly be thinking for themselves. They must be under the influence of some hidden power fueled by ominous motives.

The war on drugs for instance:
Someone who is unfamiliar with drugs and drug use, sees or hears about people who's lives are destroyed by drug use. They come to the conclusion that drugs are bad. How do you get rid of bad things? Ban them.
Now, we all know that this doesn't work, but the results seem promising: the more money they pump into arresting drug users, the more they catch, and the more the public starts to believe drug use is evil, and that any kind of drug use should be strictly prohibited.
It's not difficult at all to see how someone could believe this, and there's no reason to believe that it is a government conspiracy.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Phluck]
    #971091 - 10/18/02 01:57 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You've got all these separate entities, corporations with in the US are numberous, and they all have different goals and lobbies

Not so different. They all want lower corporate taxation, lower workers wages, lower working conditions, lower environmental controls, more corporate welfare, less welfare for the poor etc. The freedom to go into other countries and exploit their natural resources and use cheap slave labour etc. They have more things in common than differences.

Governments are separate from corporations

Difficult to call this one. In America they might be but that's only because the american government had a longer time to consolidate it's power before the corporations went global. In newer third world countries where governments are often just corrupt US installed thugs - the corporations pretty much do as they please. Look at Shell oil's behaviour in Nigeria for example.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Tobacco [Re: Xlea321]
    #971131 - 10/18/02 02:15 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

They all want...



How do you know they all want all of these things? How do you come by your omniscience? Was this telepathically imparted to you by some of your space alien friends during a level 5 shroom trip?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Tobacco [Re: Xlea321]
    #971691 - 10/18/02 08:13 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Still has nothing to do with a secret conspiracy to install a new world order.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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