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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Assisted Suicide
    #9343027 - 12/01/08 10:20 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

If, hypothetically, assisted suicide were to be legalized and made available not only to the terminally ill but to anyone who wanted to end their life for whatever reason, would you elect to have it done immediately or continue to prolong the inevitable?

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OfflineLion
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Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9343174 - 12/01/08 10:47 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Obviously everyone who reads this would elect to stay alive.  It's not that hard to off oneself, regardless of legality or assistance.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
Not here
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9343179 - 12/01/08 10:48 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Why die now and not later?


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: Lion]
    #9343203 - 12/01/08 10:54 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Lion said:
It's not that hard to off oneself, regardless of legality or assistance.




Apparently it is for some.  According to the World Health Organization, there are an estimated 10 to 20 million failed suicide attempts every year.

In my hypothetical scenario, one would have the option of a painless death under medical supervision.

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InvisibleRecondicom
Power of four
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Registered: 05/03/07
Posts: 226
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9343226 - 12/01/08 10:57 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
If, hypothetically, assisted suicide were to be legalized and made available not only to the terminally ill but to anyone who wanted to end their life for whatever reason, would you elect to have it done immediately or continue to prolong the inevitable?




    Naturally that would include the man who jumped out of the nth floor, but still alive (although, he is not a man because he cannot get what he wants). He is kept alive machines and all… one day the machines failed due to human error and the man dies. The family blames the hospital and sues for millions. He was sooo young!. Only the old are allowed...? Someone will make it a ritual... a midnight special. Why invite anyone?
  The dead are gone but the killers think.


--------------------
Wave.
'And for this reason repentance (metanoia) is an elevating means. For he who feels impatience with the circunstances in which he finds himself, devises means of escape.
  Now the chief thing in purification is the will. For then both deeds and words lend a helping hand. But, when the will is absent, the whole purificatory discipline of initiation is...'

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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #9343230 - 12/01/08 10:58 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Why die now and not later?




Why prolong the inevitable?  Once you're dead, any experiences that you may have had during this life might as well have never existed.

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OfflineNexion
Seeker
Male

Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 648
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9343296 - 12/01/08 11:13 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

How do you know, maybe what you do in this time carries over to the next, if there is a next.

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InvisibleCracka_X
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Folding@home Statistics
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Posts: 8,808
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9343300 - 12/01/08 11:14 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, there's plenty of items and structures people could use to truly end it all.  The matter of getting someone to do it for you should be up to the terminally ill who can't get to those cliffs or building tops.  Let alone have the energy to slit the wrist and the disappointment of potentially trouble shooting what you did wrong if it didn't work?!


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9343325 - 12/01/08 11:18 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Why die now and not later?




Why prolong the inevitable?  Once you're dead, any experiences that you may have had during this life might as well have never existed.




So what does my death have to do with my life?  Life is interesting; of death I have no idea.  I make my decisions in the present, not from an imagined place of hindsight in the future.  At the moment, death is just a thought.

BTW I think the word you're looking for is defer, not prolong.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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InvisibleRecondicom
Power of four
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Registered: 05/03/07
Posts: 226
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: Cracka_X]
    #9343336 - 12/01/08 11:21 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah. They are all in the same category.  They deserved to be alive.


--------------------
Wave.
'And for this reason repentance (metanoia) is an elevating means. For he who feels impatience with the circunstances in which he finds himself, devises means of escape.
  Now the chief thing in purification is the will. For then both deeds and words lend a helping hand. But, when the will is absent, the whole purificatory discipline of initiation is...'

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InvisibleAtheist
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Posts: 13,705
Loc: USA
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9343485 - 12/01/08 11:48 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Why die now and not later?




Why prolong the inevitable?  Once you're dead, any experiences that you may have had during this life might as well have never existed.




Because prolonging the inevitable is the whole point of life. To live.

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OfflineFunkyPolak
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Registered: 11/20/08
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: Atheist]
    #9343632 - 12/01/08 12:08 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

In my hypothetical scenario, one would have the option of a painless death under medical supervision.



What about jumping from a building? I don't think you would feel anything either

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #9343644 - 12/01/08 12:09 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Why die now and not later?




This.  Both life and death are ultimately meaningless; why give more meaning to death than to life?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9343654 - 12/01/08 12:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
If, hypothetically, assisted suicide were to be legalized and made available not only to the terminally ill but to anyone who wanted to end their life for whatever reason, would you elect to have it done immediately or continue to prolong the inevitable?




Your posts all sound like you find life challenging. That's why I like you I guess. I mean besides you being so intelligent and cool and all.

I would "prolong" my life as long as the benefits outweighed the costs. This seems pretty logical don't you think?

A few days ago I was having a hard time and might have canned it. Today I feel quite hopeful and digging on the adventure.

Now you could say that that's a good reason not to provide choice in assisting folk who want to die. But IMO if I had chosen to can it the other day it really would make very little (none) difference if I had missed out on today. This is because I can no longer take myself seriously. I'm just not that important.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: Nexion]
    #9343759 - 12/01/08 12:33 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Nexion said:
How do you know, maybe what you do in this time carries over to the next, if there is a next.




You're right, I don't really know.  I suspect that the human mind can never fully grasp the concept of death, due to the fact that it is not an experience but the lack thereof, and conscious experience is all that we know.

However, if consciousness does indeed occur as a result of brain activity and ceases to exist upon the death of one's physical body, then I am forced to conclude that life is utterly absurd.  Life, the experience that occurs between birth and the moment of death, is like a brief flash of light in a vacuum of infinite darkness: it has no apparent source, purpose, or significance.  If consciousness spontaneously arises out of nothingness at the moment of birth and once again ceases to exist upon death, why did it ever come into existence in the first place?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9343777 - 12/01/08 12:36 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Lets say all this is true, which I believe also.

Then what is your response to this reality? Or what do you do with this knowledge?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: Icelander]
    #9343790 - 12/01/08 12:38 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Your posts all sound like you find life challenging.




I find the concept of life and existence in general extremely challenging.  However, my experience of life has been incredibly privileged, comfortable, and sheltered, almost completely devoid of any real hardship, so I don't want to give the impression that I'm complaining.

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: deCypher]
    #9343819 - 12/01/08 12:43 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Both life and death are ultimately meaningless; why give more meaning to death than to life?




I sure don't.  I give more meaning to what is happening now than to what I can only think about.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9343829 - 12/01/08 12:45 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Your posts all sound like you find life challenging.




I find the concept of life and existence in general extremely challenging.  However, my experience of life has been incredibly privileged, comfortable, and sheltered, almost completely devoid of any real hardship, so I don't want to give the impression that I'm complaining.




I think  you're hedging here. Lack of hardship is not the same as enjoying living. Let me ask if you find life worth the effort considering what you know. Outside of pure survival instinct do you find life worth it? Why?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #9343830 - 12/01/08 12:46 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Whenever I contemplate the pros and cons of suicide a la the OP, I like to think that instead of cursing our inevitable demise, we should instead be thankful for the life that we were already given, and enjoy it while we still can.

At least you were born into this world; would you have preferred to have been a rock?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleRecondicom
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Posts: 226
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9343834 - 12/01/08 12:46 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Quote:

Nexion said:
How do you know, maybe what you do in this time carries over to the next, if there is a next.




You're right, I don't really know.  I suspect that the human mind can never fully grasp the concept of death, due to the fact that it is not an experience but the lack thereof, and conscious experience is all that we know.

However, if consciousness does indeed occur as a result of brain activity and ceases to exist upon the death of one's physical body, then I am forced to conclude that life is utterly absurd.  Life, the experience that occurs between birth and the moment of death, is like a brief flash of light in a vacuum of infinite darkness: it has no apparent source, purpose, or significance.  If consciousness spontaneously arises out of nothingness at the moment of birth and once again ceases to exist upon death, why did it ever come into existence in the first place?




      Antiquity explained the secret of the mother… which later becomes the veils of ISIS. It is so beautiful /it makes sense.


--------------------
Wave.
'And for this reason repentance (metanoia) is an elevating means. For he who feels impatience with the circunstances in which he finds himself, devises means of escape.
  Now the chief thing in purification is the will. For then both deeds and words lend a helping hand. But, when the will is absent, the whole purificatory discipline of initiation is...'

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Offlinefigmentfragment
leaving shroomery

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9343844 - 12/01/08 12:48 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

If my death awaits me regardless, to me there seems no reason to seek it out.

And if life is pointless, then I may as well create meaning with this haphazard mind of mine.

I am curious to see what will happen next...

Besides I may be dead by the end of today anyhow.



:shrug:


--------------------
Goodbye Shroomery.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: figmentfragment]
    #9343881 - 12/01/08 12:54 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

This is it. This is all there is. :thumbup:

Only because we are programmed to believe we need more is just living for the moment not enough.

Without that programming I think we would be just fine. Although the question arises, what would our culture look like?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: Atheist]
    #9343904 - 12/01/08 12:58 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Atheist said:
Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Why prolong the inevitable?  Once you're dead, any experiences that you may have had during this life might as well have never existed.




Because prolonging the inevitable is the whole point of life. To live.




I agree that this does seem to be the case, as evidenced by our strong instinct for survival.  My question, however, is "why?" and I suspect that there may be no answer.  I'm beginning to suspect that we are merely part of a sort of self-existent "process," one which has no beginning, end, direction, goal, purpose, or meaning.

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OfflineLion
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9343952 - 12/01/08 01:05 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The process itself is the goal


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9343955 - 12/01/08 01:05 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I think you are correct.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: deCypher]
    #9343965 - 12/01/08 01:07 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Whenever I contemplate the pros and cons of suicide a la the OP, I like to think that instead of cursing our inevitable demise, we should instead be thankful for the life that we were already given, and enjoy it while we still can.

At least you were born into this world; would you have preferred to have been a rock?




I agree with you.  No I would not rather be a rock.  What gave you that idea?


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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OfflineLion
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Posts: 8,775
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #9344019 - 12/01/08 01:17 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

It was probably all the posts you make about rocks, how much you love rocks, how much rocks have meant to your spiritual journey, how rocks make the best friends, etc.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: Icelander]
    #9344022 - 12/01/08 01:17 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Lack of hardship is not the same as enjoying living. Let me ask if you find life worth the effort considering what you know. Outside of pure survival instinct do you find life worth it? Why?




Honestly, I would have to say no.  I'm not suicidal, and I have had some beautiful experiences in my life thus far, but regardless of one's experiences, the eventual outcome is always the same, and you can't take them with you.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9344091 - 12/01/08 01:30 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

So you need immortality to make it all worth while?

What's so hot about being you forever? Your energy still is part of the Universe. You are just a program in the great computer so to speak. 

So nihilism is no help because you can't embrace it. You have turn to cynicism.

I'm not criticizing you. I often have the same feelings but have identified it as useless, unskillful, programming.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
Not here
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Posts: 16,509
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9344112 - 12/01/08 01:32 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Lack of hardship is not the same as enjoying living. Let me ask if you find life worth the effort considering what you know. Outside of pure survival instinct do you find life worth it? Why?




Honestly, I would have to say no.  I'm not suicidal, and I have had some beautiful experiences in my life thus far, but regardless of one's experiences, the eventual outcome is always the same, and you can't take them with you.




No need to ever take them with you if you make a point of eternally adjusting to the present moment.  The ability to do that is the sole determiner of quality of life, IMO.  "The eventual outcome" does not exist except as a troubling thought that is happening right now.  Put your attention on something else, and it is gone.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Offlinemr_kite
The Watcher
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9344364 - 12/01/08 02:13 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Lack of hardship is not the same as enjoying living. Let me ask if you find life worth the effort considering what you know. Outside of pure survival instinct do you find life worth it? Why?




Honestly, I would have to say no.  I'm not suicidal, and I have had some beautiful experiences in my life thus far, but regardless of one's experiences, the eventual outcome is always the same, and you can't take them with you.




I think we make meaning from the relationships we form while we're around, we make beauty that is comprehensible (by our own consciouness if nothing else) where otherwise there would be nothing....and so even if ultimately it all means nothing (which I'm fairly convinced it ultimately does) I quite like the idea of saying a big big Fuck You to the meaningless Universe, by going about my life as if things like love and compassion actually mattered, like it is all worth the effort.


--------------------
let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: Icelander]
    #9344524 - 12/01/08 02:32 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
So you need immortality to make it all worth while?




No, actually I find the idea of immortality quite frightening.  It's not that I'm angry about the reality of my eventual death or feel that it's somehow unfair; I simply feel that its philosophical implications are blatantly absurd, though one could reply "so what?"

Consider my statement from earlier:

Quote:

I'm beginning to suspect that we are merely part of a sort of self-existent "process," one which has no beginning, end, direction, goal, purpose, or meaning.




Of course reality is devoid of these things; they're all human concepts.  We often forget that the universe does not conform to human expectations.  I am guilty of this as well.  I often question why anything exists, but as I said earlier, there most likely is no answer, and really, why should I expect there to be?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9344631 - 12/01/08 02:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)


I'm beginning to suspect that we are merely part of a sort of self-existent "process," one which has no beginning, end, direction, goal, purpose, or meaning.


Sounds scary until you take out the "merely" word.

It's only been in the recent past that I have determined to confront my faulty program and just give life a try without it. I find that setting goals that are personally rewarding is the key. And like Kite sez, giving the finger to the universe is funny and fun. He is really right on you know.

I think you should come out sometime and take a hike in the canyons with me. We can pretend we're wild savages and really have some fun.:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: Icelander]
    #9344757 - 12/01/08 03:05 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I may just take you up on that.

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9344763 - 12/01/08 03:06 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Good cause I was serious. Hope you like to eat rattlesnake.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: Icelander]
    #9345788 - 12/01/08 05:36 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Can I come too?


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: Lion]
    #9345809 - 12/01/08 05:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

OK Maybe we should start a Shroomey survival tribe in the desert. Kind of like Burning Man without the Burning Man.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineLion
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: Icelander]
    #9345853 - 12/01/08 05:44 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Kind of like Lord of the Flies?  :mob:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9345872 - 12/01/08 05:47 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Quote:

Atheist said:
Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Why prolong the inevitable?  Once you're dead, any experiences that you may have had during this life might as well have never existed.




Because prolonging the inevitable is the whole point of life. To live.




I agree that this does seem to be the case, as evidenced by our strong instinct for survival.  My question, however, is "why?" and I suspect that there may be no answer.  I'm beginning to suspect that we are merely part of a sort of self-existent "process," one which has no beginning, end, direction, goal, purpose, or meaning.




Very well put. Nonetheless, i think i would prolong the inevitable as you put it. Its weird though, as i have no real drive to live or general reason to stay around. I guess i don't see life as a privilege. I'm not terribly depressed or anything but i have my days where i really don't care if i live or die. probably alot more than the next guy but i still think i would like to see what happens next as someone put it..

Then again if it was a painless way to go...:shrug:


--------------------

"It is the prayer of my innermost being to realize my supreme identity in the liberated play of consciousness, the Vast Expanse. Now is the moment, Here is the place of Liberation. " -alex grey

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Offlinefigmentfragment
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9349718 - 12/02/08 07:25 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Quote:

Atheist said:
Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Why prolong the inevitable?  Once you're dead, any experiences that you may have had during this life might as well have never existed.




Because prolonging the inevitable is the whole point of life. To live.




I agree that this does seem to be the case, as evidenced by our strong instinct for survival.  My question, however, is "why?" and I suspect that there may be no answer.  I'm beginning to suspect that we are merely part of a sort of self-existent "process," one which has no beginning, end, direction, goal, purpose, or meaning.




Why does this matter to you, this "lacking?"

I would also ask, if you had your favourite food in front of you, do you it eat it or simply flush it straight down the toilet, as this is where this matter will end up?
Some would argue that the experience alone of eating it...the sensation of taste etc, is worth it. The fact that after eating, not all the food gets flushed down, but gets absorbed and utilised by the body.

So is the experience worth it, even though ultimately we end up shitting our lives out?

Although in all honesty, I don't recall being able to look at the menu. :hehehe:

On another tangent, those with real conviction for self termination (IMO)do not need assisting.
Probably why I still continue to be present today.
If I was able to obtain the convenience of a painless guided suicide, I could be dead many times over.


--------------------
Goodbye Shroomery.

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9350306 - 12/02/08 10:11 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
If, hypothetically, assisted suicide were to be legalized and made available not only to the terminally ill but to anyone who wanted to end their life for whatever reason, would you elect to have it done immediately or continue to prolong the inevitable?




ah, one of my favorite subjects.  I would have it done immediately. I'm tierd of this shit, it's pointless and there's nothing left in my future except working crap jobs and using drugs. 

Drugs.....stands for dumbness and despair, desertion.  Desertion of your friends you and you from your friends, everyone from everyone, isolation, lonliness, hating, suspecting each other, drugs is finally death, slow death, from the head down. :nonono:

My only friend killed himself already and I could care less what my psycho catholic family thinks.


--------------------

Edited by AmericanPsycho (12/02/08 11:22 AM)

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OfflineAmericanPsycho
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9350321 - 12/02/08 10:13 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Quote:

Lion said:
It's not that hard to off oneself, regardless of legality or assistance.




Apparently it is for some.  According to the World Health Organization, there are an estimated 10 to 20 million failed suicide attempts every year.

In my hypothetical scenario, one would have the option of a painless death under medical supervision.




yeah that's exactly why I want it done by medical supervision.  I want it done now but it's illegal everywhere in the world, even the Netherlands (except for terminally ill) which is bullshit.  I'm hoping in 10 or 20 years it will be legal somewhere and I can have them end it.


--------------------

Edited by AmericanPsycho (12/02/08 10:37 AM)

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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9351609 - 12/02/08 02:17 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AmericanPsycho said:
Quote:

it stars saddam said:
If, hypothetically, assisted suicide were to be legalized and made available not only to the terminally ill but to anyone who wanted to end their life for whatever reason, would you elect to have it done immediately or continue to prolong the inevitable?




ah, one of my favorite subjects.  I would have it done immediately. I'm tierd of this shit, it's pointless and there's nothing left in my future except working crap jobs and using drugs. 





You're telling us that the only reason you haven't killed yourself is because it's illegal?  Surely if you wanted this deed to be done you'd have made it happen already.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #9351685 - 12/02/08 02:31 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Quote:

AmericanPsycho said:
Quote:

it stars saddam said:
If, hypothetically, assisted suicide were to be legalized and made available not only to the terminally ill but to anyone who wanted to end their life for whatever reason, would you elect to have it done immediately or continue to prolong the inevitable?




ah, one of my favorite subjects.  I would have it done immediately. I'm tierd of this shit, it's pointless and there's nothing left in my future except working crap jobs and using drugs. 





You're telling us that the only reason you haven't killed yourself is because it's illegal?  Surely if you wanted this deed to be done you'd have made it happen already.




1) I want a painless and a 100% guarantee that it won't fail.  And obviously with a doctor there with all the right drugs it won't fail.

2) I can't afford a Gun and I'm not about to try something stupid like jump off a bridge and wind up paralyzed in the hospital or this...

"My GF was telling me about a guy she worked for as a carer who had attempted suicide by hanging, but he didn't die, instead he did something to his neck and brain, so now he's mentally retarded (as far as anyone can tell) and he's got severe physical spasticity that prevents him from moving very much. My GF said that he smelt bad, like rotting flesh, and wasn't very clean because he required 24hr care and the full time carers didn't care as much as their job description might suggest - quite the sorry state."

If you have any other suggestions I'd love to hear them


--------------------

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: deCypher]
    #9356084 - 12/03/08 03:39 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I would feel more comfortable in this world if I had more control over what decisions were made about my life. However I would never kill myself unless I was suffering through an illness and was terminal, but it should a decision for me alone.

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: C.M. Mann]
    #9356384 - 12/03/08 07:21 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

how do they know I'm not suffering a terminal illness of my mind.  It's bullshit that it has to be a physcial problem for people to be able to choose euthanasia where it's legal.


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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9356776 - 12/03/08 09:24 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The problem here is that you think society should conform to your personal ideas of right. That usually doesn't happen in life.

If one has the means; in other words if physically able, then you are responsible for offing yourself. It's always a proud moment when one becomes a do it yourselfer.:thumbup:

"If I give a man a fish he can eat for a day. If I teach him to fish....":rofl2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: Icelander]
    #9356782 - 12/03/08 09:25 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

My favorite version of that quote is:

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: deCypher]
    #9356789 - 12/03/08 09:27 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Actually that's much better for this example.:thumbup::rofl2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineAmericanPsycho
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: Icelander]
    #9357765 - 12/03/08 12:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

If one has the means; in other words if physically able, then you are responsible for offing yourself.





yeah and I will when I have no other option


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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9359010 - 12/03/08 03:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I really don't understand why people are so hung up on keeping everyone alive at any costs?

Considering the world is very overpopulated.  There's millions of people who really don't need to be here: disabled, deformed, criminally insane, mentally unstable & those who do little more than deplete our resources by remaining charity cases their whole lives.

Is there a purpose in keeping these people around other than to give ourselves a pat on the back for being so "generous, kind & merciful"?

Or is it because almost everyone including those who run the world have some bullshit religion so their beliefs come first before reason.


--------------------

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9359045 - 12/03/08 03:16 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Who decides?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9359054 - 12/03/08 03:17 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AmericanPsycho said:
Is there a purpose in keeping these people around other than to give ourselves a pat on the back for being so "generous, kind & merciful"?




Yeah, about as much purpose as there is in keeping you around.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: deCypher]
    #9359074 - 12/03/08 03:19 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I was going to say that but remembered he doesn't want to be around.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9359099 - 12/03/08 03:21 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AmericanPsycho said:
I really don't understand why people are so hung up on keeping everyone alive at any costs?

Considering the world is very overpopulated.  There's millions of people who really don't need to be here: disabled, deformed, criminally insane, mentally unstable & those who do little more than deplete our resources by remaining charity cases their whole lives.

Is there a purpose in keeping these people around other than to give ourselves a pat on the back for being so "generous, kind & merciful"?

Or is it because almost everyone including those who run the world have some bullshit religion so their beliefs come first before reason.




No I think it is because human beings tend to value human life, if only as a form of symbiosis.  My chances for survival are improved if I help to uphold other people's right to survive.  I think cynics and pessimists are much more of a drain on others than cheerful retarded or deformed people.  I am all for anyone ending their own life voluntarily though.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9359208 - 12/03/08 03:32 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AmericanPsycho said:
I really don't understand why people are so hung up on keeping everyone alive at any costs?




It seems that this is due solely to the persistence of the idiotic Judeo-Christian belief in the "sanctity of life" in our society.  This is only one of many residual absurdities that have resulted from our society's firm conviction that we must forever preserve the marriage between church and state at all costs.

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9359230 - 12/03/08 03:34 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

yeah that's what I thought


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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #9359255 - 12/03/08 03:37 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
human beings tend to value human life, if only as a form of symbiosis.  My chances for survival are improved if I help to uphold other people's right to survive.  I think cynics and pessimists are much more of a drain on others than cheerful retarded or deformed people.  I am all for anyone ending their own life voluntarily though.




We help each other survive so what's the difference in helping each other die when we are suffering?  We're all going to die anyway so  :wtf:


--------------------

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9359274 - 12/03/08 03:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, but wouldn't you prefer a life filled with pleasure?


--------------------
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: deCypher]
    #9359278 - 12/03/08 03:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

duh


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: deCypher]
    #9359312 - 12/03/08 03:44 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Yes, but wouldn't you prefer a life filled with pleasure?




yeah but not everyone is capable of one


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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9359334 - 12/03/08 03:45 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

True this, but to espouse killing everyone just because they're going to die anyway assumes that no-one else is capable of experiencing pleasure.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9359378 - 12/03/08 03:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The fact that there remain social taboos against suicide, abortion, contraception, sexual education, etc., in the face of overpopulation, disease, teenage pregnancy, and a host of other social maladies, seems to suggest that there really is no hope for redemption.  That anyone argues passionately for the "rights" of a fetus, or the necessity of prolonging the suffering of the terminally ill is absurd to the point of being unbelievable, but I suppose that's an adequate description of religion itself.

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: deCypher]
    #9359398 - 12/03/08 03:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
True this, but to espouse killing everyone just because they're going to die anyway assumes that no-one else is capable of experiencing pleasure.




That's not what I meant.  I don't think we should kill everyone,  I know lots of people have great lives and enjoy it and I'm happy for them.  What I mean is if someone is oviously suffering and doesn't want to live then they should have the choice to be put out of their misery painlessly even if it's just mental suffering.


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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9359429 - 12/03/08 03:54 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
The fact that there remain social taboos against suicide, abortion, contraception, sexual education, etc., in the face of overpopulation, disease, teenage pregnancy, and a host of other social maladies, seems to suggest that there really is no hope for redemption.  That anyone argues passionately for the "rights" of a fetus, or the necessity of prolonging the suffering of the terminally ill is absurd to the point of being unbelievable, but I suppose that's an adequate description of religion itself.




--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9359674 - 12/03/08 04:19 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
The fact that there remain social taboos against suicide, abortion, contraception, sexual education, etc., in the face of overpopulation, disease, teenage pregnancy, and a host of other social maladies, seems to suggest that there really is no hope for redemption.  That anyone argues passionately for the "rights" of a fetus, or the necessity of prolonging the suffering of the terminally ill is absurd to the point of being unbelievable, but I suppose that's an adequate description of religion itself.





Yeah and the country is run by insane people like Ted Haggard so we can pretty much forget about assisted suicide in the USA :rolleyes: I'm stuck living with a person like this as well :nonono:


--------------------

Edited by AmericanPsycho (12/03/08 04:50 PM)

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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9359733 - 12/03/08 04:24 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

LMAO that last bit on arrogance is the funniest fucking thing i've seen in awhile.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

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Chat your fraff
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Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9360347 - 12/03/08 05:43 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AmericanPsycho said:
Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
human beings tend to value human life, if only as a form of symbiosis.  My chances for survival are improved if I help to uphold other people's right to survive.  I think cynics and pessimists are much more of a drain on others than cheerful retarded or deformed people.  I am all for anyone ending their own life voluntarily though.




We help each other survive so what's the difference in helping each other die when we are suffering?  We're all going to die anyway so  :wtf:




Nothing wrong with helping, as long as the 'helped' agrees that it is 'help'


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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OfflineAmericanPsycho
Abomination of Nature
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Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 8,501
Loc: Normandy SR2 Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Assisted Suicide [Re: Grapefruit]
    #9364482 - 12/04/08 09:07 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
LMAO that last bit on arrogance is the funniest fucking thing i've seen in awhile.




check this one out GrapeFruit


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