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Demonic_Chronic
The Plague Doctress
Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 4,199
Loc: PNW
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Do i absolutely have to soak WBS?
#9339366 - 11/30/08 06:43 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Im going to do some WBS and i need to get it done tonight. or else ill have to wait a week. do i absolutyely have to soak WBS for the 24 hours? or can i load into a pc with some water in the jars and go from there? can ne1 help me?
DC
-------------------- The Real violence, the violence that I realized was unforgiveable Is the violence that we do to ourselves When we are too afraid to be, who we really are.
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J3illy
Trainee
Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 3,344
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Well the going consensus is that you gotta soak it to germinate the endospores, which you can kill easier in the PC - but I've heard someone [a sponsor/vendor here] say that it's not totally necessary. The process is described here:
http://www.fungifun.org/English/Grain-For-Simple-Minds
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Spongiform
Some Cow
Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 3,994
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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The purpose is to allow endorspores to germinate so they can be killed when pressure cooked. You might be able to get away with it but your chances of contams are gonna be higher.
Quote:
An endospore is a dormant, tough, and non-reproductive structure produced by bacteria from the Firmicute phylum. The primary function of most endospores is to ensure the survival of a bacterium through periods of environmental stress. They are therefore resistant to ultraviolet and gamma radiation, desiccation, lysozyme, temperature, starvation, and chemical disinfectants. Endospores are commonly found in soil and water, where they may survive for long periods of time.
-------------------- Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.
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ozzyozzyozzy
Australian
Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 545
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Do i absolutely have to soak WBS? [Re: J3illy]
#9339440 - 11/30/08 06:53 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I rinse mine for 15 minutes, simmer for 30, drain + rinse for 15, drain again for half an hour to an hour, and PC.
I'd add some (field capacity) verm in too, though.
Edited by ozzyozzyozzy (11/30/08 06:54 PM)
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veda_sticks
Cultivator
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Do i absolutely have to soak WBS? [Re: J3illy]
#9339444 - 11/30/08 06:53 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Soaking not only helps bacterial endospores germinate so they can be killed during pressure cooking, you also need your grains hydrated.
Why cant you wait an extra day?
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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Damion5050
Mush Doctor
Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 12,493
Loc: Lost In Translation !
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Re: Do i absolutely have to soak WBS? [Re: veda_sticks]
#9339447 - 11/30/08 06:54 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Soak them it will pay off in the long run
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mister
Nature nut
Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 2,926
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Re: Do i absolutely have to soak WBS? [Re: Damion5050]
#9339468 - 11/30/08 06:58 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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any grain that i just measured out into a jar, added water, and pc'd, was a failure everytime. the wait would be worth it.
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musher_420
Stranger
Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 2,691
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Do some searching and you'll find numerous people who only simmer and don't soak. It works just fine but you need to watch the grains very closely when you do your simmering. I just find it's easier to soak but when time is an issue then yeah you can get away with just simmering.
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Demonic_Chronic
The Plague Doctress
Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 4,199
Loc: PNW
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Re: Do i absolutely have to soak WBS? [Re: musher_420]
#9339504 - 11/30/08 07:04 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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i guess ill have to find time to soak and simmer. well i work ALOT so i barely have time to do my Pf tek which btw came home from my thanksgiving weekend and harvested 60g from 2 cakes. was very pleased.
DC
-------------------- The Real violence, the violence that I realized was unforgiveable Is the violence that we do to ourselves When we are too afraid to be, who we really are.
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Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator
Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 1,421
Loc: Wal-Merica
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SOAK, but only soak. seriously, you dont need to even simmer WBS. simmering is a pain in the ass.
just put all the WBS you need in a cooler, then boil a bunch of water and pour it in the cooler, enough to cover the grain, plus a few inches. then wrap the cooler in a blanket and let it sit over night. if its cold, add another pot of boiling water before bed.
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Orion12
Stranger
Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 48
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: Do i absolutely have to soak WBS? [Re: Omnicracker]
#9352628 - 12/02/08 05:40 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I simmer for 15 min then do a 12 hr soak in the hot water. At 12 hrs I thoroughly rinse and drain the seed till it doesn't drip and put approx 3 cups/qt jar mixed with 2 heaping tbsp of moist verm/brf. you can do away with the brf, it's just extra nutes and I had a bunch laying around collecting dust so i used it. Shake the piss out of the jar to mix it all up, use tyvek and an aluminum foil cover and PC for 60 min @ 15 psi. Perfecto.
This has been my experience anyway. I tried a soak with no simmer and found that the seed dried up and caused my jars to stall. Simmering the WBS softens it so that it can absorb more moisture. Simmer first then soak and make sure you strain it THOROUGHLY. Add some moistend verm (about 2 tbsp per jar). This helps retain moisture OR absorb any excess so there is no pooling of water at the bottom or sides of the jar. I've had 100% success and NO contams. Good luck!
Edited by Orion12 (12/02/08 05:48 PM)
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Stimpy913
Happy Happy Joy Joy
Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 765
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Re: Do i absolutely have to soak WBS? [Re: Orion12]
#9353679 - 12/02/08 07:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I like to rinse the grains really really well before soaking them. Also if you want to pick any stuff out the mix, like sometimes my brdseed has small sticks in it (wtf?) then pick the stuff out while the grain is still dry or its a pain in the ass. Anyways its always a good idea and takes about 5 minutes to just rinse the grain real well, to get dirt and dust off it. Then to test the cleanliness of the dry grain dump some into a jar, pour water in the jar so it goes a few inches above the grain level, shut jar and shake vigorously. If the water in the jar gets brown looking or dirty looking then rinse and strain it more until the water is pretty much clear. There might still be some chunks of grain hulls or something that always seem to stay in it, and never get rinsed away, but getting rid of the dirt is a good step to staying sterile.
After its rinsed soak it for 24 hours. After the soak is done, i take a big ass pot of water, or just the pc itself and start boiling the water at a rolling boil. Not a little simmer, but full on boil. Dump the grain into the boiling water, stir it once or twice, and after 2 minutes dump the whole pot out into the strainer. If you boil the water like that then it strains and drys the grain a lot better as opposed to just straining directly after the soak. Just be carefull and dont let it boil long enough to burst any grains.
You know its done straining when no water drips, and you can reach deep into the strainer pull a handfull of grain out, and the grain slides off your hand without sticking whatsoever. Anything that sticks past proper straining is likely busted grains anyways so just toss it.
edit- also boiling the grain for a min or 3 acts as a timer when you strain it. If you can't pick up a handfull of grain from bottom of strainer without burning hand then it aint done yet. Wait at least 20 min for safety sake.
-------------------- How to talk to cops
Edited by Stimpy913 (12/02/08 07:42 PM)
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fluffyshapes
lowly lotus
Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 257
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 8 months, 9 days
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Re: Do i absolutely have to soak WBS? [Re: Stimpy913]
#9353868 - 12/02/08 08:01 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think foo was talking about this earlier today in another post.
He posted a link to his whole tek, but he doesn't do the whole soak thing, just brings a pot of water to a rolling boil, throw the wbs in , covers, and takes it off the heat, letting it steep for an hour.
Seems like it's worked for him and I plan on trying it out next time I prep jars...
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ozzyozzyozzy
Australian
Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 545
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Do i absolutely have to soak WBS? [Re: fluffyshapes]
#9353973 - 12/02/08 08:12 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
fluffyshapes said: I think foo was talking about this earlier today in another post.
He posted a link to his whole tek, but he doesn't do the whole soak thing, just brings a pot of water to a rolling boil, throw the wbs in , covers, and takes it off the heat, letting it steep for an hour.
Seems like it's worked for him and I plan on trying it out next time I prep jars...
I tried that. Wound up getting trich on the bag, whereas my other bags with soak + drain worked fine, if a little wet. Not discrediting his tek, but different styles work for different people. I'm sure other people who do what I normally do would contam out of their arse, and when I try what other people normally do I contam out of my arse. Try different things and see what works best.
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The shroomy 1
Luminous beings surround me
Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 5,543
Loc: The Aether
Last seen: 6 months, 23 days
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Re: Do i absolutely have to soak WBS? [Re: Stimpy913]
#9353986 - 12/02/08 08:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm sorry, but cutting corners will eventually bite you in the ass. YES, YOU CAN "GET AWAY" WITH NOT SIMMERING. YES, YOU CAN "GET AWAY" WITHOUT SOAKING. Hell, you can "get away" with a lot of things in this hobby. But when the day comes that you FAIL, you're going to kick you self in the ass for not being THOROUGH and PATIENT. Here is a link to a thread where I briefly explain my method. It may be a bit much for some of you, but when you have a 99% success rate because of it, you'll understand why. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=9156865&page=0&vc=1&PHPSESSID=#Post9156865
The Shroomy 1
-------------------- AMU Q&A thread.
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Demonic_Chronic
The Plague Doctress
Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 4,199
Loc: PNW
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Re: Do i absolutely have to soak WBS? [Re: ozzyozzyozzy]
#9353992 - 12/02/08 08:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah im postponing the WBS im making a monotub with 6 BRF jars, 60/40 coir verm then cased with striaght verm. i might make a grow log or just put some pics.
-------------------- The Real violence, the violence that I realized was unforgiveable Is the violence that we do to ourselves When we are too afraid to be, who we really are.
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drjugglz
Evil ScientistExtraordanaire!
Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 485
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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ill be honest with you guys...
i would love to see any kind of scientific data backing up that you absolutely have to soak your grains or there will be hell to pay by the shroom gods. get a grip. think outside the box folks!!!
i havent been soaking my grains. i havent been straining them. i havent been doing a lot of things.
all i do is use 150ml of water to 300ml of grain.
no problems.
been using this method for over a year.
zero contams. no hassles. no bullshit. it works. period.
ive used over 150lbs of grain in the past 8 months. i havent had 1 contam result from the grain method descrbied above. ive had contams as a result of shotty lc and sterilization techniques of my work space. other than those few contams. i honestly can say that i havent had ANY problems as a result of NOT straining or simmering or whatever... playing with my grains cuz theyre so fun to fondle.
believe me or not if you want. ill be posting a tek soon regarding this. its been done before on here and the poor guy caught hell and i tried to just to try it and it has worked out great since then.
different strokes for different folks. whatever method works best for you. just adapt your knowledge to however you want to do it.
-------------------- “To use your head you have to go out of your mind.” ~ Timothy Leary
Edited by drjugglz (12/02/08 08:42 PM)
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The shroomy 1
Luminous beings surround me
Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 5,543
Loc: The Aether
Last seen: 6 months, 23 days
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Re: Do i absolutely have to soak WBS? [Re: drjugglz]
#9354265 - 12/02/08 08:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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OK, drjuggls. I'm about to put you to the test. How long did you PC for?
The Shroomy 1
-------------------- AMU Q&A thread.
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drjugglz
Evil ScientistExtraordanaire!
Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 485
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: Do i absolutely have to soak WBS? [Re: The shroomy 1]
#9354271 - 12/02/08 08:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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90 minutes.
shake immediately after done PC-ing. otherwise.... (heres the catch) itll clump up into a massive ball of gunk.
-------------------- “To use your head you have to go out of your mind.” ~ Timothy Leary
Edited by drjugglz (12/02/08 08:52 PM)
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FooMan
Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Do i absolutely have to soak WBS? [Re: ozzyozzyozzy]
#9354362 - 12/02/08 09:04 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ozzyozzyozzy said:
Quote:
fluffyshapes said: I think foo was talking about this earlier today in another post.
He posted a link to his whole tek, but he doesn't do the whole soak thing, just brings a pot of water to a rolling boil, throw the wbs in , covers, and takes it off the heat, letting it steep for an hour.
Seems like it's worked for him and I plan on trying it out next time I prep jars...
I tried that. Wound up getting trich on the bag, whereas my other bags with soak + drain worked fine, if a little wet. Not discrediting his tek, but different styles work for different people. I'm sure other people who do what I normally do would contam out of their arse, and when I try what other people normally do I contam out of my arse. Try different things and see what works best.
Sorry to hear that. All my bags and jars have worked fine with that method. My guess would be that maybe you didn't PC long enough or maybe didn't drain long enough Here's a WBS bag using the same method I just used as spawn recently:
-------------------- Quick WBS Prep
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