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 Phred
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 The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? 
#933894 - 10/05/02 04:13 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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No, this is not a line from an old "Get Smart" television show, it is a continuation of a side-issue generated in the thread "Neville's Folly". Alex123 writes:
We are talking about whether safety additions such as airbags and building stronger cars reduces the accident rate. All the evidence shows it doesn't.
http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/stats/1999_car_accident_stats.html
That site shows a partial set of statistics for a single year. Not only is the sample of a single year too small to be statistically significant, nowhere on the site does it compare figures for cars meeting current safety standards against those which don't. If we "are talking about whether safety additions such as airbags and building stronger cars reduces the accident rate," then I must admit I fail to see the point of including this link.
As another expert points out:
"Another reason for doubting that driver education serves as a cure-all is the considerable evidence that the programs now being offered are not likely to reduce their graduates' crash rate. On the contrary, the evidence suggests that formal driver education, which is mandated in some jurisdictions, often has the opposite effect, as do a few other accident countermeasures, such as anti-lock braking systems (ABS), airbags, and even reflector posts.(2)"
http://www.icbc.com/Library/recovery/volume9/Number2/TargetingRisk/
If you actually read the article, you will see that the author's beef is NOT with safety features of cars, but with the false sense of superiority engendered by state-approved (and often state-MANDATED) driving courses. His contention is that owning a diploma from an accredited driving school can lead one to believe one is a better driver than one actually is.
Incidentally the spike wasn't my idea, I saw an interview with an expert on road accidents who was asked whether installing airbags was going to cut the number of accidents. He laughed and said exactly the opposite, the accident rate was still increasing and the most effective safety addition you could make to a car would be to install a steel spike on the wheel.
I agree with him on the airbag issue. I personally think airbags are worse than useless. But they are orders of magnitude less worthless than a spike sticking out of a steering wheel. Are you really not capable of recognizing when someone is exaggerating to make a point? Of course airbags will not reduce the number of accidents! That was not their purpose. Their purpose was to protect idiots too dim to use a three-point harness. Whether they achieve this purpose is debatable. It is undeniable that they have killed infants, and caused severe injuries to adults involved in low speed collisions, sometimes even just from being tapped from behind in a parking lot.
He laughed and said exactly the opposite, the accident rate was still increasing...
Perhaps in England. Not in North America. Check the NHTSA figures. Not only have FATALITIES been decreasing for almost four decades, so have NON-fatal accidents.
"Engineering alone is ineffective at best; can even increase risk."
This is utter bullshit. Better tires, maneuverability, brakes, etc., allow even mediocre drivers to escape tight situations which would have resulted in an accident in less capable cars. Stronger structural improvements prevent deaths from crushing in impacts or rollovers. That's not conjecture, that's fact.
Safe driving behaviors like staying within speed limits, heeding stop signs, and using safety belts have to be performed over and over again. Research indications that engineering has no direct effect, or only a very limited direct effect, on behaviors like these.
On BEHAVIORS, correct. Not every accident is caused by faulty driver behavior, however. A child dashing into the street from between two parked cars in front of a car going the legal limit will be less likely to be hit by a modern car with ABS brakes and radial tires than he would be if that car was a 1970 model with drum brakes on all four wheels and bias-ply tires.
"Who can argue against the benefits of education or training?" asks Institute chief scientist Allan Williams. "But when good scientific evaluations are undertaken, most of the driver improvement programs based on education or persuasion alone are found not to reduce the crash rate."
If this is true -- if all these programs based on education or persuasion don't reduce the crash rate -- then what is the ONLY remaining reason for the verifiable decline in the crash rate? The improved performance and safety features of the vehicles themselves, of course.
"Additional safety technology and engineering cannot be scientifically proven to change driver behavior or risk assessment."
Of course it can't be proven -- in EITHER direction. That is to say it can't be scientifically proven to make drivers more cautious, nor can it be scientifically proven to make them more reckless. All one can do is observe the fact that each year the accident rate declines and draw a correlation with the fact that each year the cars are equipped with more safety features (including better handling and braking -- NOT just airbags).
Here's the question to be answered: if more safely designed cars are not the reason for this well-documented decline, and better driver behavior is not the reason, what IS the reason? Divine intervention?
pinky
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 VSOPXO
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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: Phred]
#934008 - 10/05/02 07:16 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Phred
Fred's son
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: VSOPXO]
#934061 - 10/05/02 08:16 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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What the hell does he mean "steel spike"How is jabbing a steel spike in your steering wheel more safe?
Ah... you must have missed the original posts. They were in the thread called "2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs?"
Here are just some of Alex's gems from that thread:
"This is a similar argument to the one about safety in cars. I bet you're a big believer in airbags and making cars as safe as they can be right? WRONG. If people feel invulnerable they take massive risks. The most effective safety addition to any car is a foot long steel spike sticking out of the driving wheel."
"Sorry man, but if you had a spike in your steering wheel you would drive slower, leave bigger gaps between cars, look more carefully before pulling out etc. The studies have shown that the more safety devices you introduce in cars the higher the accident rate goes. People drive like maniacs when they think they are protected from harm."
"Give your daughter a gun and she thinks she's invulnerable. Instead of coming home at 10pm in a taxi she thinks ' I'm packin, I'll walk it at 2am' ".
"The trouble is there is no evidence arming the weaker members of society is any protection to them. On the contrary it is likely to lead them to take risks they wouldn't otherwise take because they consider themselves invulnerable."
Note that Alex's theme here is consistent, and also consistent with his stance on Iraq -- one may not take any measures to defend oneself, one must rely on the goodwill of others.
In the case of cars, don't buy a car with airbags and better brakes, crashworthiness, and handling than a 1963 Corvair, because it will make no difference -- the proper course of action is to hope no one ever crashes into you.
In the case of personal safety, don't arm yourself -- the proper course of action is to hope that you never run into someone who wishes you harm.
In the case of an aggressor nation with a track record of invading its neighbors and ignoring agreed-upon terms of surrender, do nothing -- the proper course of action is to believe the leader of that nation when he says he won't do it anymore.
pinky
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Albino_Jesus
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Phred]
#934097 - 10/05/02 08:41 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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We are talking about whether safety additions such as airbags and building stronger cars reduces the accident rate. All the evidence shows it doesn't.
That site shows a partial set of statistics for a single year. Not only is the sample of a single year too small to be statistically significant, nowhere on the site does it compare figures for cars meeting current safety standards against those which don't. If we "are talking about whether safety additions such as airbags and building stronger cars reduces the accident rate," then I must admit I fail to see the point of including this link.
er... safety features are there to increase your chance of survival in the event of an accident, not to reduce the amount of accidents.
the only thing that can reduce accident frequency is better driver education and responsibility
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-Ralph Nader
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Phred
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Albino_Jesus]
#934121 - 10/05/02 09:01 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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the only thing that can reduce accident frequency is better driver education and responsibility
Not according to those quoted by Alex. Their contention is that driver education programs actually increase accident frequency.
pinky
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Albino_Jesus
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Phred]
#934138 - 10/05/02 09:11 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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that just isn't so. is he seriously going to believe that without driver education accidents would decrease? sorry, but before I took driver's ed I had only a small clue what I was doing, and the same goes for everyone else. you can't possibly work with the flow of traffic without a ton of instruction and practice beforehand.... whether it's "formal" driver's education or just being taught by someone who knows all the rules and is a good driver, people need instruction. even then, some people are just bad drivers and driver's ed can't help them.
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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader
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Phred
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Albino_Jesus]
#934155 - 10/05/02 09:19 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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is he seriously going to believe that without driver education accidents would decrease?
Apparently, he does believe this.
You are new to this forum, aren't you? You may want to look at some of Alex's other posts for some insight into what other things he believes. Not just Alex, either... far from it! There are MANY people here with some pretty entertaining beliefs.
You have stumbled across a veritable mother lode of unusual beliefs, dear lady.
pinky
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Albino_Jesus
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Phred]
#934169 - 10/05/02 09:25 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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I find the belief that a bunch of clueless, uneducated drivers would get in less accidents than drivers who have an idea what they're doing.... beyond comprehension
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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader
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Phred
Fred's son
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Albino_Jesus]
#934205 - 10/05/02 09:42 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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I find the belief that a bunch of clueless, uneducated drivers would get in less accidents than drivers who have an idea what they're doing.... beyond comprehension
As do I. However, I am accustomed to seeing incomprehensible ideas expressed here, so I am less shocked by it than you apparently are.
I've read a few of your posts in Spirituality and Philosophy -- you seem to have a head on your shoulders. Why don't you stick around for a bit? It's always nice to see someone who can actually THINK contribute to this forum.
pinky
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VSOPXO
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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: Phred]
#934361 - 10/05/02 11:23 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: VSOPXO]
#934410 - 10/05/02 11:49 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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In reply to:
Because you'd have to be pretty fucked up to come up with ideas like that.
Go read some of his other posts and responses. You'll find that Al is indeed an "unusual" thinker.
In reply to:
Does Alex smoke crack?
I don't know about crack, but I suspect he huffs way too many propellants.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Xlea321
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Phred]
#934430 - 10/05/02 11:59 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is this a meeting of "clueless anonymous"? 
Yep, everyone who'se researched this subject is wrong and you kids are right. Glad you've put the world to rights.
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Xlea321
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Phred]
#934445 - 10/05/02 12:04 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Engineering alone is ineffective at best; can even increase risk."
This is utter bullshit
Excuse me but who exactly are you?
Lets get this straight. Before I mentioned these studies 3 hours ago you'd never even heard about them right? You thought I'd made it all up. Now, inside 3 hours, you are a world authority defying the scientific conclusions of people who've actually spent their lives studying this?
I think that sums up quite clearly exactly how moronic you really are.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Albino_Jesus
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Xlea321]
#934459 - 10/05/02 12:10 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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research is worthless if you don't understand what you're researching.
also: common sense is quite fucking obviously wrong if some webpage claims otherwise.. like...duh?
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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader
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Xlea321
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Albino_Jesus]
#934470 - 10/05/02 12:15 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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If your common sense doesn't correspond to all available scientific research then it's wrong.
Do you think these researchers have made this up?
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Xlea321
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Albino_Jesus]
#934479 - 10/05/02 12:22 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here's some more evidence. I wonder when pinky will provide evidence instead of his usual hysteria? Maybe one day soon...
The famous Munich taxicab study
"Part of a taxi fleet in Munich was equipped with an anti-lock brake system?also known as ABS. This type of brake system prevents the wheels from locking up under extreme braking conditions. It offers the advantage of improved steering control over the vehicle during rapid deceleration, especially on slippery road surfaces. The system makes it possible to change the direction of the car and abruptly reduce speed at the same time, at a considerably reduced risk of losing control.
..."The drivers were not aware that their driver behaviour was being observed and the observers did not know whether they were in a taxi with ABS or without. The drivers did, of course, know whether or not they were operating an ABS cab, because of their familiarity with the car they were driving.
Subsequent analysis of the rating scales showed that drivers of cabs with ABS made sharper turns in curves, were less accurate in their lane-holding behaviour, proceeded at a shorter forward sight distance, made more poorly adjusted merging maneuvers and created more 'traffic conflicts'."
..."The Munich taxicab experiment attracted a great deal of attention, not only in the professional circles, but also in the popular press. Newspapers carried articles about it and Bavarian Television wanted to show the viewers what had happened"
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Xlea321
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Phred]
#934484 - 10/05/02 12:30 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yet more evidence:
It appears that drivers are less interested in reducing risk than they are in optimizing it. All drivers have a preferred level of risk that they maintain as a target. When the level of risk they perceive in a situation goes down, they will adapt by increasing their risky behavior so that the preferred target level remains constant over time. Technological improvements that drivers perceive as lowering the risk are thus followed by a change in behavior that is less cautious and raises the risk to the level before the improvement. The data discussed in Smiley's article conform to this homeostatic explanation.
Her solution calling for better driver understanding of the limitations of the new driver assistive technology may not work for the same reason. Although driver training improves skill, it also increases confidence, which in turn lowers the perception of risk and increases unsafe behavior. What is needed in addition to training is the introduction of increased benefits from safer behavior. When this motive is introduced into the driving equation, it acts in opposition to homeostasis and many drivers will respond by inhibiting risky behaviors. Drivers need training in two areas: understanding how the new technology works, especially its limitations, as Smiley points out; and understanding the risk compensation effect on their decisions. The latter understanding, reinforced with positive incentives for safe behavior, will make it more likely that society can benefit from the introduction of the new driver-assistive technologies.
LEON JAMES
Professor of Traffic Psychology
University of Hawaii
Honolulu, Hawaii
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Xlea321
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Phred]
#934500 - 10/05/02 12:38 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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All I want pinky is one independent article supporting your position that introducing airbags makes the risk of crashing go down.
Just find me one single solitary expert who agrees with you. Not one of your clueless mates on a chatboard - but someone who has studied this all his life.
Here's the experts agreeing with me again.
http://www.detnews.com/specialreports/2000/trucks/monlead/monlead.htm
Technology alone won?t eliminate risk on the roads
By Dina ElBoghdady / Detroit News Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON ? When it comes to stemming big rig crashes, technology alone won?t do the trick.
The real challenge is the person behind the wheel.
Human error is cited more often than mechanical defects in the roughly 5,000 truck-related deaths that occur each year on the nation?s roads.
Federal regulators, worried that high-tech safety gear may only heighten the potential for deadly mistakes, want more research on whether technology raises safety concerns that outweigh benefits.
...
The cost-sensitive trucking industry, forever wary of investing in costly devices that may prove unreliable, highlights a series of studies that caution against jumping on the technology bandwagon, including research by Gerald Wilde, a psychology professor at Queen?s University in Ontario, Canada.
In his book Target Risk, Wilde suggests technology emboldens motorists to drive recklessly because it makes them feel safer. This kind of risk-taking behavior is not exclusive to truckers, Wilde said. Smokers have been shown to inhale deeper if they know there?s less nicotine in a cigarette and mountain climbers take more challenging routes if they see rescue helicopters looming overhead.
After studying 206 fatal crashes in Virginia in 1993 and reams of insurance data, economists at Virginia Commonwealth University found that aggressive driving cancelled the air bag?s safety benefit for the driver and increased the risk of death for others.
?The air bag was not causing the injury,? said George Hoffer, an economics professor involved in the study. ?Our study showed people were comfortable with a certain level of risk because they think technology will bail them out.?
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Albino_Jesus
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Xlea321]
#934506 - 10/05/02 12:40 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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you are quite simply misinterpreting studies to use them 'evidence' for your hairbrained theory.
the less you know about something, the more likely you are to make a mistake. people who get in wrecks because they are careless drivers and think they don't have to be careful have something called an ego problem. with or without current driver's education or anti-lock brakes they're simply going to be not careful enough because they don't think small risks (or sometimes even big risks) are important, they think that they can handle anything.
the solution to the egotistical driver problem is BETTER driver education that deals with driver psychology as well as driving basics. putting a bunch of driving-idiots behind the wheel won't make it better, moron.
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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader
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Xlea321
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Phred]
#934512 - 10/05/02 12:43 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Another article saying driver education has no effect on safety:
http://www.icbc.com/Library/recovery/volume9/Number2/TargetingRisk/
Ironically, the added risk from formal training has commonly been attributed to the fact that training inspires confidence that is disproportionate to the level of new skills. This, in turn, may encourage more and bolder driving and greater willingness to drive in adverse conditions -- increasing exposure to and thus likelihood of mishap.(3)
Interestingly, at least one major driver education program promotes the fact that, by taking its courses, graduates can drive on the road sooner on their own. Confidence is the selling point.
But what level of confidence should society at large wish for? In Quebec, formal driver education was made mandatory in 1983. This was followed by an increase in accidents among 16- and 17-year-old drivers. The law has since been repealed.
In particular, it has been argued that driver education not only makes people more competent in handling vehicles but also more competent in taking risks. Beginning drivers without formal training, this view holds, are more likely to overestimate accident risk and thus avoid challenging conditions. Education corrects such overestimations, allowing students to discover that certain maneuvers and situations are less perilous than they thought.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Albino_Jesus
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Xlea321]
#934521 - 10/05/02 12:46 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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dear god, you really are a dim bulb aren't you?
the problem of overconfidence is a problem within specific people. it's a problem that can be dealt with through education. just putting people in cars and telling them "ok, you figure it out" is NOT a solution.
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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader
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Xlea321
Stranger
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Albino_Jesus]
#934526 - 10/05/02 12:47 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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the solution to the egotistical driver problem is BETTER driver education that deals with driver psychology as well as driving basics. putting a bunch of driving-idiots behind the wheel won't make it better, moron.
But as I've pointed out, You're an idiot so what does it matter what you think? You havn't got a clue what you are talking about. Find me an expert who agrees with your moronic ramblings and we can talk.
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Albino_Jesus
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Xlea321]
#934533 - 10/05/02 12:51 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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moronic ramblings is taking a scientific study dealing with OVERCONFIDENCE of drivers due to them thinking they know it all from a basic driver's ed course and proposing that driver's ed be abolished to reduce the accident rate
I'm suggesting that people be taught not to overestimate their abilities and that they're not perfect.... to always be cautious and not mistake safety features for invincibility
your ideas are fucking BACKWARDS.
regressive, not progressive.
you're an underanalytical, bratty little shit.
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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader
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Xlea321
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Albino_Jesus]
#934534 - 10/05/02 12:52 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Another expert:
Dr. Sam Peltzman. Peltzman systematically compared vehicle crash statistics before (1947-1956) versus after (1966-1972) the regulated installation of safety engineering innovations in vehicles (including seat belts, energy absorbing steering columns, padded instrument panels, penetration-resistant windshields, and dual braking systems). As predicted by risk compensation theory, Peltzman found that the vehicle-manufacturing safety standards had not led to a reduction in the frequency of crash fatalities per miles driven. Perhaps the most convincing evidence of risk compensation was that the cars equipped with safety devices were involved in a disproportionately high number of crashes.
And yet another:
Dr. John Adams of University College, London, UK, for example, compared traffic fatality rates between countries with versus without safety-belt use laws. His annual comparisons (from 1970 to 1978) showed dramatic reductions in fatal vehicle crash rates after countries introduced seat-belt use laws. Taken alone this data would lend strong support to the seat belt legislation. However, the drop in fatality rates was even greater in countries without safety-belt use laws.
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Xlea321
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Albino_Jesus]
#934545 - 10/05/02 12:55 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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you're an underanalytical, bratty little shit.
Are you upset? Or do you still think you are talking to your mother?
your ideas are fucking BACKWARDS.
I'll let you and pinky deal in "ideas". I'm dealing in fact. Proven scientific research. I'm reading the testimony of experts out there studying this - not little kids blowing it out their ass on a message board.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Albino_Jesus
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Xlea321]
#934560 - 10/05/02 01:06 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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you're posting research and using its results to come to simpleminded conclusions. higher accident rates in cars with safety features comes from the mentality of the driver, not from the safety features. safety features provide safety when used appropriately, not when taken as invincibility features.
teaching people to be responsible and to rely on caution, not their cars, will reduce accidents. removing safety features and driver's education will just result in idiots on the road with no protection whatsoever. the solution is in correcting faulty presumptions, not in leaving drivers to figure things out on their own through trial and error.
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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader
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Xlea321
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Albino_Jesus]
#934577 - 10/05/02 01:16 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Whatever man.
I'm just reporting what these traffic experts are saying. That's pretty much all there is to say.
If you have any serious evidence for your points please post them. Until one of you can do that this thread is going nowhere.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Albino_Jesus
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Xlea321]
#934582 - 10/05/02 01:20 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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serious evidence for my point:
carefulness results in less mistakes.
carelessness results in more.
assuming safety features are cure-alls for accidents results in carelessness.
knowing their limits and knowing that you are responsible for your own mistakes results in caution.
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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Albino_Jesus]
#934592 - 10/05/02 01:24 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's not really the point or what we've been discussing.
Clearly being careful will make you drive better, what we have been discussing is whether adding features such as airbags makes people more or less careful. All the evidence shows it makes them less careful thus increasing their accident rates.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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VSOPXO
Cognacaholic
Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 1,751
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Xlea321]
#934600 - 10/05/02 01:27 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Forget everything else. ANYONE who says driving with a fucking foot long spike sticking out of the steering wheel is the safest option is clearly retarded. Nobody should even argue with a jackass like that.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: VSOPXO]
#934602 - 10/05/02 01:30 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Forget everything else.
Yeah forget everything you don't agree with. Fucking idiot.
It was obviously being used to make a point. The expert saying it had over 30 years experience in traffic safety. How many have you had?
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Albino_Jesus
Clearly Retarded
Registered: 09/14/02
Posts: 1,698
Loc: Construction ahead...
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Xlea321]
#934612 - 10/05/02 01:35 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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because they're ignorant of the fact that these features aren't perfect.
better education on more than just *how to drive* will reduce ignorance.
it's that simple
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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Xlea321]
#934670 - 10/05/02 02:09 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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In reply to:
If your common sense doesn't correspond to all available scientific research then it's wrong.
What ? So you're wrong about your second ammendment beliefs then since the evidence shows what a fool you are?
In reply to:
Yeah forget everything you don't agree with. Fucking idiot.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Comic relief provided by Alex
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
Edited by luvdemshrooms (10/05/02 02:15 PM)
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VSOPXO
Cognacaholic
Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 1,751
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#934688 - 10/05/02 02:21 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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In reply to:
It was obviously being used to make a point. The expert saying it had over 30 years experience in traffic safety. How many have you had?
not a damn one, also I've never had a damn year of experience working at the FDA, but if they told me eating arsenic was safer than eating a carrot I wouldn't believe their "experts" either. If you truly think a foot long steel spike in your steering wheel is the safest option, then do you personally have a steel spike in your steering wheel?
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Albino_Jesus
Clearly Retarded
Registered: 09/14/02
Posts: 1,698
Loc: Construction ahead...
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: VSOPXO]
#934700 - 10/05/02 02:26 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
If you truly think a foot long steel spike in your steering wheel is the safest option, then do you personally have a steel spike in your steering wheel?
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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader
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VSOPXO
Cognacaholic
Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 1,751
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Albino_Jesus]
#935192 - 10/05/02 07:36 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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no response. Alex, please come back and enlighten us with your jackassed wisdom, I mean afterall your so correct about everything. I was walking across the street today and i thought "Can I do this safer? what would ALEX do?" so I laid down in the street because afterall tempting fate is ALWAYS the safest option,I also put a strip of tacks on my toilet seat for traction,you know ,so I wont slip in. You taught me to think like you.Thanks lil buddy
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Jammer
Computers areMORE Addictive!
Registered: 11/04/00
Posts: 3,998
Loc: (God's Country) - USA
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
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 Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Phred]
#935228 - 10/05/02 07:58 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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RE: "I personally think airbags are worse than useless"
I just wanted to say this: I worked with a supervisor recently that claims an airbag saved his life. I remember the day very well when this happen: He estimates he was going 55MPH and just glanced to the side for a moment to observe some contruction work going on... When he looked up it was to late- a truck was stoped waiting to turn left- He had almost no time to slow down- He, and the police involved gave credit to the airbag for saving his life- yes he still was brusied up, but he had no broken bones and walked away... to the ER for a checkup.
I also once overheard on my police scanner where a 14 year old boy had stolen a car and then floored the gas untill he hit the brick side of a large hardware store in Flint Michigan (aparent suicide attempt)- The first officer on the sceen actualy said on the police radio that the speedometer was frozen at 88 mph (it made me think of the movie back to the future!) and that boy was "lucky to be alive... the airbag saved him"- I rember this all too very well- cuz I was afraid that it was my runaway step-son that was involved.
Please dont knock airbags- (They DO save lives).
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>>Jammer>>
Edited by Jammer (10/05/02 09:58 PM)
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#935908 - 10/06/02 01:29 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm still waiting for scientific evidence to back up your position that airbags reduce accident rates.
Looks like the usual position we get in these threads. On one side is the usual arselickers who need to agree with everything the other says, pink, luvdem etc, on the other side is every expert in the field who has actually studied this subject.
Make up your own mind.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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VSOPXO
Cognacaholic
Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 1,751
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Xlea321]
#935927 - 10/06/02 01:48 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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In reply to:
I'm still waiting for scientific evidence to back up your position that airbags reduce accident rates.
you seem to be uanble to read, either that or just very dysfuntional. I'll say it once more, read the words and think about them inside you tiny narrow mind:
In reply to:
I've never had a damn year of experience working at the FDA, but if they told me eating arsenic was safer than eating a carrot I wouldn't believe their "experts" either. If you truly think a foot long steel spike in your steering wheel is the safest option, then do you personally have a steel spike in your steering wheel?
well what do you have to say?
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Jammer]
#935932 - 10/06/02 01:50 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Please dont knock airbags- (They DO save lives).
Nice to hear someone with an actual point for a change! I'm sure they do Jammer. What we're discussing, (well, you can't discuss with these morons - I'm providing massive amounts of expert evidence and they're saying "Duh like dude, you got a spike in your wheel dude?" )
What we're discussing is whether airbags reduce the accident rate. All the scientific evidence ever done and every expert studying the subject shows that they don't. That's good enough for me. But sure - if you've been driving at 90mph through the street and crash an airbag might save you. What we need is a way of stopping people driving like that tho.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
Edited by Alex123 (10/06/02 01:53 AM)
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VSOPXO
Cognacaholic
Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 1,751
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Xlea321]
#935936 - 10/06/02 01:55 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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In reply to:
What we're discussing is whether airbags reduce the accident rate. All the scientific evidence ever done and every expert studying the subject shows that they don't. That's good enough for me.
You were the one swearing a spike was safest because "experts" said it was right. okay, but if's the safest option do you have a spike in your steering wheel. That IS what we're discussing seeing as everyone wants you to answer this since you fucking preach it. Your avoiding the question, do you have a foot long steel spike sticking out of your steering wheel? i'll bet you $50 you change the subject or don't answer.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: VSOPXO]
#936025 - 10/06/02 03:53 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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How old are you son? This is like talking to a three year old.
The point about the spike is that it is making the point that adding safety additions to a car makes people drive more dangerously.
You obviously arn't old enough to drive, but when you are you'll understand.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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VSOPXO
Cognacaholic
Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 1,751
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Xlea321]
#936032 - 10/06/02 04:07 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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In reply to:
How old are you son? This is like talking to a three year old.
The point about the spike is that it is making the point that adding safety additions to a car makes people drive more dangerously.
You obviously arn't old enough to drive, but when you are you'll understand.
son? I'm a grown damn man.I can probably drive way better than your ass if your advocating steel spikes. Ask anyone here who is acting like a three year old. YOU .You say you believe anything "experts" say, but when I say if the FDA "experts" said arsenic was safer than a carrot then i wouldn't believe them you say thats stupid and I'm stupid for thinking that because their fucking experts . That in itself shows you what kind of level your on. You're about as quick as a snail headed uphill. No need to argue with you, it's like trying sing a song to a deaf man.
Edited by VSOPXO (10/06/02 04:14 AM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: VSOPXO]
#936078 - 10/06/02 06:15 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Read some of Al's other posts. You'll soon see this is the only type of answer he gives.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Xlea321]
#936277 - 10/06/02 10:41 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey Alex, can you show how the following safety features have increased the accident rates?
1) Headlights.
2) Brake Lights.
3) Tail Lights.
4) Day time running lights.
5) Rear view mirrors.
6) Side view mirrors.
7) Turn indicators.
8) Brakes.
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
Edited by Evolving (10/06/02 11:24 AM)
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Evolving]
#936311 - 10/06/02 11:06 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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And surprise surprise I'm still the only one who'se provided any scientific research to back their claims.
Read the munich taxi study I posted a while ago. Try and comprehend.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Xlea321]
#936332 - 10/06/02 11:13 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Please address the prior question about the safety features that I just listed.
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Evolving]
#936348 - 10/06/02 11:23 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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After you've made some contribution to the points at hand. I've posted enough expert evidence to prove my point a hundred times over. I think this thread is just about done unless someone can address the overwhelming evidence I've listed.
Explain the munich taxicab study for example.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Xlea321]
#936363 - 10/06/02 11:30 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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So what you're saying is that you are unable to address my question about the specific safety features that I listed. The Munich Taxicab study does not address the features that I listed. Please stop trying to dodge the question (as you usually do) and provide something that addresses those features that I listed. (Unless you are incapable of doing so - which is what I suspect)
Please show how the following safety features have increased the accident rates:
1) Headlights.
2) Brake Lights.
3) Tail Lights.
4) Day time running lights.
5) Rear view mirrors.
6) Side view mirrors.
7) Turn indicators.
8) Brakes.
--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Evolving]
#936370 - 10/06/02 11:35 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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No I'm saying I've just posted enough expert evidence to prove my point a hundred times over and now instead of paying the slightest attention to it you are making some ludicrous points about lights on cars. I don't have the time or the patience to go through this all again.
If you wish to talk about lights on cars then start another thread. This thread was about airbags.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Xlea321]
#936379 - 10/06/02 11:41 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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You have not proven your point. If you had, I would not have brought up my question. It is apparent that you are ignorant of what I am asking about and are unable to address this issue. This is typical of your style of discussion.
Please show how the following safety features have increased the accident rates:
1) Headlights.
2) Brake Lights.
3) Tail Lights.
4) Day time running lights.
5) Rear view mirrors.
6) Side view mirrors.
7) Turn indicators.
8) Brakes.
--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
Edited by Evolving (10/06/02 11:41 AM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Xlea321]
#936516 - 10/06/02 01:05 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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It would seem the only one who thinks you've made any type of point at all is you Al.
Unless you want to consider the point at the end of the spike.
Once again your posts go nowhere and prove nothing.
What a surprise.
Comedy relief provided yet again by Alex.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Evolving]
#936523 - 10/06/02 01:09 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Your childish opinion really isn't worth a damn.
I have provided an enormous amount of expert evidence. You have provided nothing. Until you do there is nothing more to say.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Xlea321]
#936552 - 10/06/02 01:30 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Keep trying Al. Keep trying.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#936559 - 10/06/02 01:35 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not you again. Is this all you do? Follow me around in the hope I'll pay you some attention?
Get over it man. Address the issue for once. Prove to me you're not the excrement on the bottom of my shoes.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Xlea321]
#936591 - 10/06/02 01:53 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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In reply to:
Your childish opinion really isn't worth a damn.
Really Alex, is this the best you have to offer to in the way of addressing my question?
In reply to:
I have provided an enormous amount of expert evidence.
You have provided no evidence for the question I have asked. What are the facts, provide us with some numbers relating specifically to the safety features that I have listed. Do you really think that you can rationally prove a point by ignoring data which might be contrary to your assertions?
In reply to:
You have provided nothing. Until you do there is nothing more to say.
Why should I be providing evidence when you are the one making the assertions? You claim a point has been proven, when in fact your argument is based on incomplete data and opinions. Just because Alex repeatedly states his opinion does not make it a fact, nor does it resolve an issue.
Let's try this again and see if you can address the issue directly...
Please show how the following safety features have increased the accident rates:
1) Headlights.
2) Brake Lights.
3) Tail Lights.
4) Day time running lights.
5) Rear view mirrors.
6) Side view mirrors.
7) Turn indicators.
8) Brakes.
--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Xlea321]
#936656 - 10/06/02 02:20 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Alex123 writes:
I've posted enough expert evidence to prove my point a hundred times over. I think this thread is just about done unless someone can address the overwhelming evidence I've listed.
Well, Alex, there has been so much going on since my last visit I don't know where to begin, really.
First of all, let me point out that you do nothing but damage your credibility when you make (over and over again) such hyperbolic claims as:
We are talking about whether safety additions such as airbags and building stronger cars reduces the accident rate. All the evidence shows it doesn't.
Yep, everyone who'se researched this subject is wrong and you kids are right.
If your common sense doesn't correspond to all available scientific research then it's wrong.
I'm dealing in fact. Proven scientific research.
All the evidence shows it makes them less careful thus increasing their accident rates.
on the other side is every expert in the field who has actually studied this subject.
All the scientific evidence ever done and every expert studying the subject shows that they don't.
The links you've posted provided exactly zero evidence of any kind, scientific or otherwise, having to do with airbags. No statistics; nothing but OPINIONS of psychologists. And, if (as you always do whenever someone refutes your claims) you are NOW changing the rules in midstream and insisting that the ONLY topic under discussion is airbags, rather than safety features in general as mentioned repeatedly both by YOU and by the links you've provided (driver education, ABS brakes, stronger construction, etc.), then we can discard pretty much every link you have provided, since only two even mention airbags.
Secondly, the "experts" you quote are in a very small minority. Is a professional driver's education instructor who has been training drivers for thirty years not an expert? How about an insurance claims adjuster? A race car driver? A statistician for the NHTSA? A highway patrolman who has investigated the scenes of thousands of collisions? Few, if any, of THOSE experts hold the same views your psychologist from Hawaii does.
Next point: Lets get this straight. Before I mentioned these studies 3 hours ago you'd never even heard about them right? You thought I'd made it all up. Now, inside 3 hours, you are a world authority defying the scientific conclusions of people who've actually spent their lives studying this?
No, I have heard these theories (most are NOT studies) before. As I have mentioned from the very moment you introduced the topic in the thread about the second amendment, I am not a fan of airbags. I have been opposed to them from the beginning. I think it was incorrect for the government to force them upon the public rather than have them available as OPTIONAL equipment, and I believe a VERY strong case can be made for them being physically (not just psychologically) more of a threat to the lives of passengers and drivers than no airbags at all. As I have already pointed out, inflation of airbags in non-collision scenarios has literally killed several children and infants and at least one adult, as well as causing injuries ranging from mild to severe in adults. If your car is equipped with a properly-designed three-point active restraint sytem (i.e. a seat/shoulder harness), and you use it religiously, airbags are unnecessary.
Note that I did not dispute anything said about airbags (little as it was) by your various "experts". I do dispute the absurd claim that engineering improvements, driver education, and other safety features do not reduce the fatality rate. If you had confined the discussion to airbags, I would probably have agreed with your position, with the obvious exception of the "spike in the steering wheel" idiocy. By the way, I'm glad to see you finally had the decency to admit it was merely a figure of speech rather than a serious suggestion. Was that really so hard? If you had conceded the point back in the "second amendment" thread you would not now be subjected to ridicule by some of the less restrained posters to this thread.
...you are a world authority defying the scientific conclusions of people who've actually spent their lives studying this?
I am not a "world authority", but automobile safety has been a special interest of mine since the early Seventies. I drove and navigated in autocrosses, rallies, and several SCCA events in the Seventies. My best friend in Canada is an engineer and a car enthusiast. He and I literally stripped to "bolts and ball-bearings" a 1974 Fiat X1?9 and rebuilt it into a rally car. I have in storage a complete collection of "Car and Driver" and "Road and Track" magazines dating from 1970 to 1987 -- every issue. These magazines (and the senior columnist for Car and Driver, Patrick Bedard, in particular) run frequent columns and articles discussing and analyzing all the points raised in this thread. They have printed most of the NHTSA studies from 1970 on, as well as reams and reams of statistics and analyses from insurance companies.
Although I checked your links thoroughly, obviously you have been too afraid to check mine. NHTSA statistics show a decline in the accident rate per mile travelled for just under forty years, as do insurance company actuarial tables. I apologize for the fact that the NHTSA decided to post on the web only their reports from 1994 on, and for the fact that insurance companies don't post their actuarial tables at all, but the fact that insurance companies offer lower rates for airbag-equipped cars and lower rates for new drivers who have attended accredited driver's education courses speaks volumes. Insurance companies are not exactly famous for their largesse -- they don't go by guesswork or by theories, their only god is the actuarial table. I can guarantee you no insurance company in the world would give lower rates for those reasons unless the lower accident rates justified it.
Time to fish or cut bait, Alex. Either restrict your future comments to airbags only, in which case I will bow out of the discussion (or maybe even support you), or continue to drag in the entire field of driver education and automotive safety (ABS brakes, crush zones, side door beams, handling characteristics, padded dashboards, collapsible steering wheels, rollover integrity, lower center of gravity, wider tires, better headlights, traction control, safety glass, etc.) in which case I will address the errors in interpretation of the "Munich Cab Study" and the link regarding truck drivers and accident rates. By the way, anyone who thinks about it for more than a few minutes will find the flaw in both. (Hint -- think about bicycle couriers). The only reason I have left some of the points raised by your "experts" unaddressed is to keep this post relatively short, but I am quite prepared to blow ALL of them out of the water if you wish.
By the way, Evolving's questions are perfectly legitimate. Each and every feature he lists was added to cars over the years as a safety feature.
pinky
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Phred]
#938167 - 10/06/02 11:32 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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The links you've posted provided exactly zero evidence of any kind, scientific or otherwise, having to do with airbags. No statistics; nothing but OPINIONS of psychologists.
The munich taxicab study?
Amazing. After 3 pages I am still the only person who has provided any evidence whatsoever.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Xlea321]
#938721 - 10/07/02 06:01 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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The munich taxicab study?
The Munich taxicab study concerned taxis equipped with ABS (anti-lock braking system) against those without. It had nothing to do with airbags.
Note that even THAT study didn't find a higher rate of ACCIDENTS.
After 3 pages I am still the only person who has provided any evidence whatsoever.
You have provided no evidence whatsoever. You have provided links to sites where psychologists state their OPINIONS. None of the sites provide any statistics or charts, nor do they reference any studies which DO provide statistics or charts.
So far in this thread I am the only one who has provided a link to a site which DOES provide statistics -- the NHTSA site.
pinky
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Jammer
Computers areMORE Addictive!
Registered: 11/04/00
Posts: 3,998
Loc: (God's Country) - USA
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Phred]
#940468 - 10/07/02 03:53 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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I first thought that this thread was going to drift over into some heavy Ralph Nader political type stuff... But it's not REALLY about politics.
Off this thread goes to The Chill Out Room.
Thanks people.
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>>Jammer>>
Edited by Jammer (10/07/02 03:58 PM)
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: Jammer]
#940502 - 10/07/02 04:05 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Fine by me.
pinky
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FlusH
Random person on Internet
Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 2,911
Loc: Bizzaro World
Last seen: 5 days, 22 hours
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 Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Phred]
#940796 - 10/07/02 05:42 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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pinksharkmark wrote:
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No, this is not a line from an old "Get Smart" television show,
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LMFAO! this is funny, really!
, am I the only one who thinks this is funny?
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Anne_Atomic
AnatomicallyCorrect
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 39
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Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh [Re: FlusH]
#943590 - 10/08/02 05:11 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Max used to be the only one with a shoe phone. Now we ALL have shoe phones, but they're pushbutton, not rotary dial. Now THAT'S progress!
This is a weird thread, though. I took a really good driving course when I was learning to drive, and I really think it was a lot better than getting my parents or friends to teach me. I learned a lot of stuff I might never have discovered on my own. I've never had an accident, or even come close.
I'm also a WICKED parallel parker! The guy that gave the road test was pretty impressed. But then he asked for my phone number, so maybe it was just the old "You're one hell of a great parallel parker, miss" ploy.
Or maybe not. I really am great at parallel parking. Honest!
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Anne : D
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gamergod88
Stranger
Registered: 06/20/22
Posts: 32
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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 Re: The old "spike in the steering wheel" ploy, eh? [Re: Phred]
#27829590 - 06/21/22 12:02 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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ok
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