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 downforpot
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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 Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land  [Re: Madtowntripper]
#9339920 - 11/30/08 08:04 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
Well, it's pretty simple.
Does any person have the right to arbitrarily pick a parcel of land, evict the current residents, and then proceed to build a house there?
What gives them the right to do this?
Israel is merely a scaled-up case of the example above.
The way I see it, there is no justification for such an action.
But it happened to Jews as well in the past... Now there is a ton of them living them, some of them have nowhere else to go especially the ones that have been born there.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25
"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"
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 Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: downforpot]
#9339945 - 11/30/08 08:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't care if it happened to them in the past.
If such a thing was inflicted on the Jews thousands of years ago, it was wrong then as well.
But for an entire country to subject another people to subjugation and eviction merely because the same thing was done to them in the past does not make it right.
The moral lesson here is that if you want to seize a parcel of land, all you have to do is make sure you can hold it for fifty years, then it's yours?
Really?
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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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downforpot
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: Madtowntripper]
#9339960 - 11/30/08 08:09 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
I don't care if it happened to them in the past.
If such a thing was inflicted on the Jews thousands of years ago, it was wrong then as well.
But for an entire country to subject another people to subjugation and eviction merely because the same thing was done to them in the past does not make it right.
The same can be said of the current Jews that have nowhere else to go. So the Palestinians start doing exactly what the Jews are doing now... who will you support?
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25
"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"
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SolomonTheShaman
I love to travel
Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 211
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: Icelander]
#9339965 - 11/30/08 08:09 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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There was no eviction with the Aliyah movement, just relocation. Plus, the residents living in the area of question post WW2 were not FORCED to leave. Many did because they did not believe in the "Zionist" establishment of the land now called Israel. Choose your words better next time and please do more research before making claims of "eviction". Plus, if you guys are all so hardcore on Israel's violation of UN mandates in 1967, also keep in mind in was the UN who set up Jerusalem to be the way it is now in 1945.
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"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever."
-Mohandas Gandhi
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: SolomonTheShaman]
#9339983 - 11/30/08 08:11 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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You guys?
I'm probably the only anti-Zionist here.
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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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SolomonTheShaman
I love to travel
Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 211
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: SolomonTheShaman]
#9339988 - 11/30/08 08:12 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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You and the other people in the thread who have thrown out the UN card.
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"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever."
-Mohandas Gandhi
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: downforpot]
#9339990 - 11/30/08 08:12 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Again, all you're saying is that if you want to seize some land, just bring your kids with you and you have the moral high-ground.
I'm sorry, but I reject this out of hand.
--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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SolomonTheShaman
I love to travel
Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 211
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: SolomonTheShaman]
#9340003 - 11/30/08 08:14 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Don't apologize, that's the beauty of the world we live in now (some parts anyway). Open and free exchange of ideas. You're totally entitled to your opinions.
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"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever."
-Mohandas Gandhi
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: Madtowntripper]
#9340004 - 11/30/08 08:14 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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To the victor go the spoils. Then you got to hold em. This is the story of human history and the reason I'm posting from Amerika.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: SolomonTheShaman]
#9340006 - 11/30/08 08:14 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SolomonTheShaman said:
You and the other people in the thread who have thrown out the UN card.
Please explain how relocation is different from eviction.
--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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downforpot
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: Madtowntripper]
#9340010 - 11/30/08 08:14 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
Again, all you're saying is that if you want to seize some land, just bring your kids with you and you have the moral high-ground.
I'm sorry, but I reject this out of hand.
That's what America was founded on, lol.
--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/4th25
"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"
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SolomonTheShaman
I love to travel
Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 211
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: Icelander]
#9340012 - 11/30/08 08:15 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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and BTW madtown, that's not at all what I'm saying. Please don't put words in my mouth.
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"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever."
-Mohandas Gandhi
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SolomonTheShaman
I love to travel
Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 211
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: SolomonTheShaman]
#9340021 - 11/30/08 08:16 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Evictions implies forcible means of movement. in 1945, when the state was set up, no one was FORCED to move. The residents in the area had the option to stay or leave. Many left. Some also stayed. That's the difference.
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"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever."
-Mohandas Gandhi
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: SolomonTheShaman]
#9340036 - 11/30/08 08:19 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SolomonTheShaman said:
and BTW madtown, that's not at all what I'm saying. Please don't put words in my mouth.
I didn't say you said that at all, I replied to downforpot.
--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
|
Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: SolomonTheShaman]
#9340053 - 11/30/08 08:21 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
SolomonTheShaman said:
Evictions implies forcible means of movement. in 1945, when the state was set up, no one was FORCED to move. The residents in the area had the option to stay or leave. Many left. Some also stayed. That's the difference.
Heh. You may believe they were not forced to leave, but I don't believe that for a second...
Quote:
David Ben Gurion, the Famous Israeli Leader said;
If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?
Might Makes Right is the sole argument of the Pro-Israel lobby.
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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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downforpot
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: Madtowntripper]
#9340070 - 11/30/08 08:23 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
Heh. You may believe they were not forced to leave, but I don't believe that for a second...
That is what happened... A lot of that land was legally purchased. The shit started when other Muslim countries started bitching cause Muslims don't want non-Muslims controlling certain regions. They went ape shit when America stationed troops in Saudi Arabia, same goes with Israel.
--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/4th25
"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: downforpot]
#9340091 - 11/30/08 08:25 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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A lot.
So, are you saying the rest was illegally seized?
--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
|
downforpot
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: Madtowntripper]
#9340121 - 11/30/08 08:28 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
A lot.
So, are you saying the rest was illegally seized?
Illegally in terms of UN but from my point of view Gaza and West Bank are legit areas cause Israel captured that shit after the 1967 war in which they kicked the shit out of three countries simultaneously.
The funny thing is that those three countries didn't get fucked up long term as much as Palestine but the Palestinians got fucked. So much for their Muslim brethren. If those assholes didn't start sending their armies towards Israel then Gaza and West Bank would still be part of Palestine.
--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/4th25
"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"
|
Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: downforpot]
#9340146 - 11/30/08 08:32 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Would they?
No country has attacked Israel for decades, but they continue to aggressively expand their borders with illegal settlements. I understand that you don't agree with the settlements, but they could never exist without the tacit support of the Israeli government.
I don't believe for a second that Israel actually wants their settlers to stop building. They are mereley biding their time and hoping that nobody cares for long enough that they can say those areas are "Ethnically Israeli" because of the people living there, illegally, for some set amount of time.
Hell, the precedent is set by them and agreed to by almost every Israeli supporter in this thread. If you settle an area long enough, it is yours, no matter who it belonged to in the first place
The two positions are mutually exclusive, but you hold them both anyway.
--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
|
downforpot
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Peace, Propaganda, and The Promised Land [Re: Madtowntripper]
#9340245 - 11/30/08 08:44 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
Would they?
No country has attacked Israel for decades, but they continue to aggressively expand their borders with illegal settlements. I understand that you don't agree with the settlements, but they could never exist without the tacit support of the Israeli government.
I don't believe for a second that Israel actually wants their settlers to stop building. They are mereley biding their time and hoping that nobody cares for long enough that they can say those areas are "Ethnically Israeli" because of the people living there, illegally, for some set amount of time.
Hell, the precedent is set by them and agreed to by almost every Israeli supporter in this thread. If you settle an area long enough, it is yours, no matter who it belonged to in the first place
The two positions are mutually exclusive, but you hold them both anyway.
Damn right, just hold that shit then there's no way you can be pushed back unless you start getting exterminated.
--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/4th25
"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"
Edited by downforpot (11/30/08 08:44 PM)
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