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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
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5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression *UPDATED TWICE*
#9338137 - 11/30/08 03:35 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know a number of people (including myself) that have experienced severe anxiety or depression from the use of pot and mushrooms. For most of these individuals, these symptoms took place 100% of the time that they took these substances, but for myself and only two others (that I know of) the anxiety/depression persisted in sober states. Abstinence from any sort of drug (including alcohol) improves the symptoms, but - as of three months later - does not eliminate them. Recently a friend of mine who experiences these symptoms only when smoking has said that he is able to smoke again, having taken 5-HTP to initiate a sort of "repair." I'm wondering if the overuse of drugs that manipulate serotonin levels and/or receptors can cause lasting complications that 5-HTP may help eliminate.
I've read about a number of members on here that have developed pot/mushroom induced anxiety disorders. I would say that my case has been rather severe as I experienced significant perspective shifts and minor visual disturbances as well as severe depression/anxiety, intermingled with occasional bouts of confusion (in which my brain seems overwhelmed and lengthy thought processes become lost). While the first two weeks of this were a constant Hell, it has since become a much less serious weekly or bi-weekly occurrence. If time can repair the problem, I'm all for it, but perhaps 5-HTP could do it faster?
Update: I've personally verified that all troubling side effects are alleviated with this solution. Within a week of taking one B-complex vitamin and one 50mg 5-HTP capsule daily, all problems were repaired, and I feel awesome. More details in this reply: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9437094#Post9437094
Update 2: Ever since making this thread almost two years ago, I've received a lot of PM's regarding the condition. Apparently it is not at all rare and since I don't check my Shroomery account much anymore, I want to address the questions I've been receiving:
Did the 5-HTP help you overcome the anxiety/depression for good? Did you have to keep taking it forever? It helped me ease the immediate symptoms. If you're experiencing them, I'm sure you realize how incredibly valuable that is. Do remember that it takes around a week of consuming 5-HTP daily to see the difference. I began with 50MG, and eventually started taking 100MG. Around two months into this method I began to see some noticeable side effects when I felt a dose of 5-HTP wearing off. These were troubling, and I disliked that the problem didn't seem to be remedying itself over time, so I moved on to another solution.
Did the anxiety/depression ever go away completely? Well, besides the fact that humans get depressed over sad things, yes. I focused on my health, by which I specifically mean I converted to raw foodism. I'm not going to write a whole article about or pitch for raw foodism here, because I'm usually met with incredulous skepticism and there is tons of information available all over the internet. It doesn't take a genius to realize that a chemical imbalance is a health problem, and that the body can fix itself if it has the nutrients available to do so. Raw food diets provide a nutrient density so vastly superior to even the average "whole foods" lifestyle that I honestly don't think there is any other currently known diet that can come close to it in efficacy. Besides, some of the people PM'ing me have been on the brink of suicide, so I feel like a major dietary change is not a big deal by comparison.
How long did it take the anxiety/depression to go away? There is no short answer, but it went like this: I stopped taking the 5-HTP and immediately went on what's called a "juice fast" to expedite the detox process. Raw juice fasts are highly effective when done properly, which means they flush toxins very quickly and make you feel like utter shit for a few days. In my case, this meant major anxiety/depression during this period of time. When the detox was over (three days), I felt amazing and broke the fast slowly and properly, then started eating the same kind of shit I'd been eating before. It took about a week before my anxiety attacks came back. Another week after that and they were just as bad as before.
So the second time around (May of 2009) I did a juice fast again to cut off symptoms as quickly as possible, which went much easier the second time, and transitioned into a fully raw diet. I can't tell you how long it took me to cure the anxiety for good because I had no attacks whatsoever as long as I was raw. During this time I continued my abstinence from all drugs, and I also cut out alcohol. I remained a raw foodist for 10 months, then some life changes made it impractical.
So how long have you been leading a normal lifestyle without any special diet and no anxiety? Around six months.
Did you ever do drugs or alcohol again? I started drinking again (on occasions) about six months into my raw food diet, and have been (for occasions) since. As for drugs, I did none until February of this year when I started smoking pot again. I found that I had some difficulty with paranoia over triggering the anxiety again, and I had to take it very slow with very small doses (a hit or two for an entire evening, tops) for a pretty long time. As of Burning Man (around a month ago as of this update on 9/23) I was able to smoke my fill, take MDMA, and do a very small dose of mushrooms (the latter two being the first of anything besides pot I'd done since triggering the anxiety) all within the span of one week.
And that didn't affect you negatively at all? Actually, it did. I was fine at Burning Man, but after coming back I did notice some emotional instability that had a distinctly unnatural feel to it for about a week and a half afterwards. I didn't trigger the anxiety or anything, but I haven't touched anything since. I think it's important to know your limits and weigh your options. The only reason that I was ever confident enough with my mental state to do drugs again in the first place was my meditation.
Did the meditation play a role in your recovery? Okay, I'll be honest, nobody's asked me this particular question, but I'm offering it up because it's important. YES. To be fair, I think if I'd stuck with raw foods forever and ever I would have been fine without the meditation. But a diligent meditation practice put me in touch with my thought process in a way that I find difficult to explain. Let me put it this way: Picture an anxiety-ridden mind as a churning ocean prone to sudden storms of varying intensity. If someone were to throw a rock or even a boulder into these violent waters, it might have an effect, but you would probably not notice because you see only constant turbulence. Now imagine that you discover a way to calm this ocean so that its surface is as relaxed and reflective as that of a mirror. If so much as a pebble skims across its surface, you will notice the ripples. This is the effect that meditation has on a calm, concentrated mind. To be honest, this benefit is so profound that - had I pursued it first instead of raw foods - I think meditation alone would have eventually conquered my anxiety.
What if I think meditation or raw food is bogus? I already addressed the raw foods, but meditation can indeed be hocus pocus. Find a good teacher who can guide you well. I personally recommend finding a meditation practice that focuses on practicality, rather than religion. Ideally, find a practice that has no religious basis whatsoever. Dogma and mythology cloud the fundamental elements of meditation practices, which otherwise have scientific support. If you cannot find a meditation teacher that supports no religion, try finding a Zen temple. Zen Buddhism, although it can technically be filed under "religion", is really just the Buddhist meditation practice isolated from the religious mythology found in more traditional Buddhism.
Do you think you would have ever gotten better without any of this? Maybe, but I think it would have taken a lot longer than I could have lasted. Eventually you just can't take feeling crazy anymore, you know? Trust me, it's worth the change.
Could you have just stayed on the 5-HTP forever? I'm not sure. I got the distinct feeling that the problem was not getting better while I was taking it, only lurking beneath a pretty surface. This is why I took more drastic changes.
Finally, in case any of you are curious, I didn't turn to raw foodism because of some internet pitch. It only occurred to me because, years ago, my own mother became a raw foodist for a year and permanently cured the chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia that she'd struggled with for the first 15 years of my life. I saw her change from a constantly tortured and exhausted individual to a vibrant and happy one. I know that with all of these fad diets swimming around that dietary changes have become laughable, but try not to think of it as a diet. It's just a really, really healthy lifestyle that enables your body to fix its own problems.
Edited by Ophanim (09/24/10 12:04 AM)
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dwtk
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#9338179 - 11/30/08 03:42 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm also starting to wonder if my frequent tripping is to blame for my increasing anxiety.
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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
Registered: 10/01/07
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: dwtk]
#9338206 - 11/30/08 03:45 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
dwtk said: I'm also starting to wonder if my frequent tripping is to blame for my increasing anxiety.
Too much too often was the name of the game for me. I feel if I had either a) not tripped once a week, or b) stuck with exclusively low doses while practicing that kind of frequency, that this wouldn't have happened.
If the thought has entered your mind, it's probably because it holds at least some little weight.
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just me
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#9338324 - 11/30/08 04:07 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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id like to see ppls takes on this.
a friend of mine whos an ex dmt(and everything under it) tripper
lets just say hes been in a different galaxy a few more than a few times.
anyway, he just started taking these as recomended by a friend, and he says he LOVEs the clarity or whatever it is that they do...
-------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs- "The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
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cactastic
You must be shroomin'
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: just me]
#9339545 - 11/30/08 07:11 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Damn that sucks. Smoking decreases my anxiety.
-------------------- ▶ I'm on YT ▶ My 10+ year old Lophophoras that I grew from seed make the occasional appearance with lots of other cacti, succulents and houseplants.
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Beege
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: cactastic]
#9339634 - 11/30/08 07:24 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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mushrooms brought me -out- of depression, they certainly didn't cause more.
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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
Registered: 10/01/07
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: just me]
#9351126 - 12/02/08 12:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
just me said: id like to see ppls takes on this.
a friend of mine whos an ex dmt(and everything under it) tripper
lets just say hes been in a different galaxy a few more than a few times.
anyway, he just started taking these as recomended by a friend, and he says he LOVEs the clarity or whatever it is that they do...
Does the beloved clarity come during his voyages, or does is he referring to its effect on his sober mind?
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#9351246 - 12/02/08 01:01 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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5-htp doesn't repair anything OP, it just reacts with the enzyme decarboxylase to form serotonin.
5-hydroxytriptophan + decarboxylase = 5-hydroxytryptamine
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
Edited by Cognitive_Shift (12/02/08 01:04 PM)
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Ophanim
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9351309 - 12/02/08 01:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: 5-htp doesn't repair anything OP, it just reacts with the enzyme decarboxylase to form serotonin.
5-hydroxytriptaphan + decarboxylase = 5-hydroxytryptamine
It does remedy something then, which is a lack of serotonin. If persisting negative symptoms from overuse of psychs were a result of offsetting your serotonin production, then 5-HTP should theoretically eliminate the symptoms (and, hopefully [?], "re-rail" proper serotonin production). It's all theoretical, but there has to be some reason this allows people with anxiety or fear during pot smoking to escape it.
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#9351323 - 12/02/08 01:16 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes it should work to rebuild your serotonin faster than with out it, and is especially good for MDMA use. Im confused on how this would help pot paranoia as cannabis doesn't directly act on serotonin.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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just me
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#9351366 - 12/02/08 01:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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sober mind.
hes kinda an ex tripper. still endulges occasionally
-------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs- "The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9351414 - 12/02/08 01:37 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: Yes it should work to rebuild your serotonin faster than with out it, and is especially good for MDMA use. Im confused on how this would help pot paranoia as cannabis doesn't directly act on serotonin.
It doesn't make sense to me either. That said, the only part of this that I'm guessing at is 5-HTP's effect on people with prolonged (sober) anxiety, depression, fear, etc. I have already seen its effects on people with these symptoms while high and it appears to be a valid remedy.
Part of this might come from the fact that most of these people were combining pot with other things. For myself, the combination of mushrooms and pot (frequent, that is) altered my weed high to the point where I would trip from smoking. I've seen reports similar to this all over the shroomery, such as people reaching a sort of low-end DMT space with pot by always taking their DMT with weed. I haven't heard of any studies being done regarding these combinations, and I wouldn't be surprised if you could actually change marijuana's fundamental effect on your cognition by conditioning your mind to elicit a specific response when it's administered. You can't alter the cannabinoids, but may be able to alter your personal response to them. What if constant pot use with drugs that affect the 5HT2a receptor could cause pot to trigger a change in serotonin levels?
You can probably tell by reading this, but I am by no means a neurologist, nor even close, and in truth I'm just spitting out theories here, but the evidence is there. 5HTP repaired their pot highs. I'm just wondering if anyone on the Shroomery has deliberately used it for this, or for sober anxiety/depression induced by psychedelics.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#9351424 - 12/02/08 01:40 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ophanim said: I know a number of people (including myself) that have experienced severe anxiety or depression from the use of pot and mushrooms. For most of these individuals, these symptoms took place 100% of the time that they took these substances, but for myself and only two others (that I know of) the anxiety/depression persisted in sober states. Abstinence from any sort of drug (including alcohol) improves the symptoms, but - as of three months later - does not eliminate them. Recently a friend of mine who experiences these symptoms only when smoking has said that he is able to smoke again, having taken 5-HTP to initiate a sort of "repair." I'm wondering if the overuse of drugs that manipulate serotonin levels and/or receptors can cause lasting complications that 5-HTP may help eliminate.
I've read about a number of members on here that have developed pot/mushroom induced anxiety disorders. I would say that my case has been rather severe as I experienced significant perspective shifts and minor visual disturbances as well as severe depression/anxiety, intermingled with occasional bouts of confusion (in which my brain seems overwhelmed and lengthy thought processes become lost). While the first two weeks of this were a constant Hell, it has since become a much less serious weekly or bi-weekly occurrence. If time can repair the problem, I'm all for it, but perhaps 5-HTP could do it faster?
I've been through some fairly heavy periods of anxiety/depression related to psychoactive drug (ab)use. 5-HTP is a good mood leveler for some but I always find that taking it before sleep leaves me cracked-out and more anxious the next day. I'd recommend either St. John's wort and Valerian root to sooth the stressed mind, or a low dose of the original psychedelic that caused the anxiety problem.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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LSDreamer
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: deCypher]
#9351462 - 12/02/08 01:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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^Ugh, I'd never recommend St. John's Wort to anybody, just on principal. It's so messy, pharmacologically. That's just me, though.
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AgingHippy
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer]
#9351579 - 12/02/08 02:10 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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If i get anxiety after a difficult trip, I never truly recover until I have a good trip.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer]
#9351906 - 12/02/08 03:19 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Messy? How so?
I haven't looked too in-depth into its pharmacology; all I know is that I've personally seen significant results against anxiety and depression by using it.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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somebody716
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: deCypher]
#9351929 - 12/02/08 03:24 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Panaeolus acuminatus has small amounts of 5-HTP
(according to wikipedia)
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Crusaderbg
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: somebody716]
#9352090 - 12/02/08 04:04 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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When I take an anti -depression drug I expect it to work(and it does for the ppl you've mentioned in the first post).
Whaever caused the depression doesn't matter so much.
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LSDreamer
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: deCypher]
#9352345 - 12/02/08 04:57 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: Messy? How so?
I haven't looked too in-depth into its pharmacology; all I know is that I've personally seen significant results against anxiety and depression by using it.
It's just got a very broad pharmacological profile that isn't fully understood. I'd be worried about unexpected interactions with drugs (both recreational and medicinal) and potential side-effects in some people.
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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: deCypher]
#9352370 - 12/02/08 05:01 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: I've been through some fairly heavy periods of anxiety/depression related to psychoactive drug (ab)use. 5-HTP is a good mood leveler for some but I always find that taking it before sleep leaves me cracked-out and more anxious the next day. I'd recommend either St. John's wort and Valerian root to sooth the stressed mind, or a low dose of the original psychedelic that caused the anxiety problem.
Interesting. I was probably going to attempt using the 5-HTP as a morning supplement on a daily basis and see if the problem is alleviated after a week or two. I've used Valerian root to help me sleep, but the anxiety overpowers it effortlessly if I'm having an episode.
Nowadays I almost never get the anxiety, but I still swing between strange headspaces with occasional confusion, and the depression is fairly regularly (one bad bout of it a week if it's a good week). If something (such as 5-HTP) were to agitate the anxiety at all, I would probably notice immediately.
At the moment, I have a few responsibilities that make me hesitant to use anything that could accidentally worsen my symptoms. Some time around next week I plan to attempt remedies, and I'll update this thread when I've determined their validity.
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TeamAmerica
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#9352461 - 12/02/08 05:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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By taking a psychadelic you are diving into new territories of your brain, anxiety or deppression may be part of this, as well as love, hope, imagination, etc...More madness and anxiety is caused by the fear of madness, dont let your pre-concieved ideas rule your thoughts about how "normal" your mind should be, go with it, dont freak out, I know it can be hard, but you can overcome it. Its just as much about you as it is the psychadelic.
I think this video by Terrence will help you out a little...
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dwtk
it all rolls into one
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: TeamAmerica]
#9352889 - 12/02/08 06:15 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
lsd is a psychedelic substance which occasionally causes psychotic behavior in people who have not taken it
haha good shit
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jazzillion
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: TeamAmerica]
#9352906 - 12/02/08 06:17 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Any anxiety that stirs out of my marijuana use is usually because of being high out in public frequently and it makes me hesitant.
I'd supplemented with 5-HTP to help induce more rem and deeper sleep cycles when I go to sleep medicated (which is about 6 days out of the week) and balance my mood. My issue with it is it makes me groggy and extremely lethargic. It makes it hard to wake up, hard to stay awake, and hard to become clear headed first thing in the morning, which results in even more anxiety and frustration. I find myself to be easily effected my anything that alters my brain chemistry, and 5-HTP doesn't sit right with me. However, I haven't tried melatonin, which I've heard good things about.
I have mild depressive spurts for which I medicate to mitigate my symptoms, but side effects from the marijuana do make it better and worse from time to time. I find Ginkgo Biloba and eating a lot of Omega fatty foods, as well as cutting back on pot when need be, and excercising and spending more time outdoors helps a lot more than 5-HTP does. I also find not sleeping too much helps as well as avoiding caffeine, but I love my caffeine.
-------------------- When it rains, it spores "Consciousness is the Universe recognizing itself." Once we perceive that everything is conscious we can then ask, "How does consciousness take all these varied forms?" - The Primacy of Consciousness by Peter Russell All works of poster are of absolute fiction to be used for no other purpose but amusement.
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Beege
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: jazzillion]
#9353176 - 12/02/08 06:44 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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this thread title is misleading, it somehow implies that mushrooms and marijuana cause anxiety, when FME, both substances do the exact opposite.
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TeamAmerica
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#9353234 - 12/02/08 06:50 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beege said: this thread title is misleading, it somehow implies that mushrooms and marijuana cause anxiety, when FME, both substances do the exact opposite.
It all just depends.
I agree though, Both are the best medication for feeling hopeless or anxious, But they can also bring out the same thing in you, as I said before, Its about you just as much as its about the psychadelic.
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LSDreamer
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#9353236 - 12/02/08 06:50 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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^And thus, they don't cause anxiety in anybody?
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Beege
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer]
#9353247 - 12/02/08 06:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
LSDreamer said: ^And thus, they don't cause anxiety in anybody?
not that I've seen
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jazzillion
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#9353252 - 12/02/08 06:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beege said: this thread title is misleading, it somehow implies that mushrooms and marijuana cause anxiety, when FME, both substances do the exact opposite.
Mushrooms and marijuana can cause anxiety and they can treat anxiety. They are interpretive substances that affect people differently, especially when used over time or in certain situations. Generalizations are irrelevant when discussing medical afflictions, symptomatology, and treatments.
-------------------- When it rains, it spores "Consciousness is the Universe recognizing itself." Once we perceive that everything is conscious we can then ask, "How does consciousness take all these varied forms?" - The Primacy of Consciousness by Peter Russell All works of poster are of absolute fiction to be used for no other purpose but amusement.
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LSDreamer
Materialist
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#9353259 - 12/02/08 06:52 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beege said:
Quote:
LSDreamer said: ^And thus, they don't cause anxiety in anybody?
not that I've seen
Well, you clearly did just see it since you must have opened the thread to post in it.
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TeamAmerica
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer]
#9353268 - 12/02/08 06:53 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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lol ^
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Beege
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer]
#9353273 - 12/02/08 06:54 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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sounds more like deep-seated emotional problems rather than a negative effect of these substances
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LSDreamer
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#9353282 - 12/02/08 06:55 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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^So, you're really going to try to defend the position that neither weed nor mushrooms has ever, will never, and can never cause anxiety in any person?
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Beege
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer]
#9353288 - 12/02/08 06:55 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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pretty much, yea.
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LSDreamer
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#9353310 - 12/02/08 06:57 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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^That is so completely ridiculous that I don't even know how to begin to respond. I'm not even sure how you can reconcile that view with reality. Do you write off every reported instance of it as the user's fault that has nothing to do with the drug? Do you assume everyone who says this happens to them is lying? Or stupid? Or insane?
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Beege
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer]
#9353327 - 12/02/08 06:59 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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No I think they are probably misunderstanding the cause of the problem.
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TeamAmerica
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: TeamAmerica]
#9353333 - 12/02/08 06:59 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think how we perceive things causes the anxiety.
Marijuana or Mushrooms may lead to anxiety about the feelings it gives you, but could I say that they dont directly cause anxiety?
I think that's viable
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LSDreamer
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: TeamAmerica]
#9353350 - 12/02/08 07:01 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've had panic attacks on mushrooms over absolutely nothing. No basis, no deep seated emotional problem, just outright full blow, senseless, baseless panic and fear. To say that it's impossible for mushrooms to cause anxiety is ludicrous.
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Beege
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer]
#9353370 - 12/02/08 07:03 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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sure while you were on it, my point is they don't cause lasting anxiety problems. Reoccurring anxiety stems from deep-seated emotional problems in the sub-conscious, not mushrooms.
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LSDreamer
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#9353396 - 12/02/08 07:05 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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^Sure they can. For example, an especially horrifying mushroom trip could cause PTSD and every time the person, for example, was in a room similar to the one they were in during the trip, they could have a panic attack. I guess you could say that's deep-seated subconscious emotional problems, but that would be some pretty heavy semantics manipulation.
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Beege
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer]
#9353408 - 12/02/08 07:07 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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psh, please
The only reason they would have a "horrifying mushroom trip" is if their life already sucked and they were abusing the mushrooms. A "bad trip" is nothing more than a difficult learning experience.
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LSDreamer
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#9353434 - 12/02/08 07:11 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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^The circumstances of the use in this case doesn't matter since you made the claim that it is impossible for mushroom use to cause lasting anxiety problems.
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Beege
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer]
#9353454 - 12/02/08 07:13 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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right, and the mushrooms are not the cause, the cause is the persons shitty life up to the point of Awakening.
mushrooms do not cause anxiety.
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jazzillion
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: TeamAmerica]
#9353462 - 12/02/08 07:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is a differentiation to be made here, as we are talking about a few different emotional responses.
A) Taking mushrooms or marijuana and having anxiety or depression arise from deep rooted unconscious emotions that unfurl into the conscious psyche. Once can acknowledge that those deep rooted issues are the cause, but the drugs were still the catalyst that brought said emotions to the forefront causing issues.
B) Taking mushrooms resulting in overall uneasiness and anxiety-excitement that are unrelated to deep rooted thoughts, but rather the idea of the experience itself, encountering foreign yet familiar feelings, and the fact mushrooms can make one physically uneasy, nauseous or uncomfortable with the overwhelming feeling they are currently experiencing. Bottom line it's intense and can cause anxiety.
C) Smoking marijuana frequently over long periods of time resulting in anxiety, nervousness and panic which we talked about in length in this thread.
Does that clarify it? There is a point to be made somewhere in here.
-------------------- When it rains, it spores "Consciousness is the Universe recognizing itself." Once we perceive that everything is conscious we can then ask, "How does consciousness take all these varied forms?" - The Primacy of Consciousness by Peter Russell All works of poster are of absolute fiction to be used for no other purpose but amusement.
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LSDreamer
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#9353463 - 12/02/08 07:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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^An argument of semantics. That's like saying guns don't kill people, bullets going really really fast do.
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#9353470 - 12/02/08 07:15 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have to disagree with that. Psychedelics (classical) act on serotonin and serotonin is responsible for anger, aggression, body temperature, mood, sleep, sexuality, appetite. It has nothing to do with life situation its totally chemical, and if you have never had a 'difficult' part of a trip then your lucky.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Beege
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer]
#9353473 - 12/02/08 07:16 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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it's not a question of semantics at all and I don't see how you are misconstruing what I'm saying.
Anxiety is not caused by mushrooms. It is caused by deep-seated emotional problems. That is not semantical.
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Beege
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9353481 - 12/02/08 07:17 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: I have to disagree with that. Psychedelics (classical) act on serotonin and serotonin is responsible for anger, aggression, body temperature, mood, sleep, sexuality, appetite. It has nothing to do with life situation its totally chemical, and if you have never had a 'difficult' part of a trip then your lucky.
I have had extremely difficult trips, but they did not lead to permanent anxiety problems.
This is the last I'm going to say on the subject because I'm tired of repeating myself and having words put into my mouth.
Edited by Beege (12/02/08 07:22 PM)
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LSDreamer
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#9353491 - 12/02/08 07:17 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mushrooms can cause, trigger, or make worse deep-seated emotional problems which can, in turn, cause anxiety problems? Happy now?
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#9353494 - 12/02/08 07:18 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Then thats just difficulty interpreting your trip back to normal reality. It eventually will go away.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Beege
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer]
#9353505 - 12/02/08 07:19 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
LSDreamer said: Mushrooms can not cause, trigger, or make worse deep-seated emotional problems. Deep-seated emotional problems cause anxiety problems
fixed
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LSDreamer
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#9353526 - 12/02/08 07:22 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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^How does that make the slightest sense? Of course mushrooms can cause negative emotional problems. Have you really never seen a report of that? That's totally ridiculous. Psychedelics are not panacea. They can do harm in some people. Is that really so threatening to you?
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Beege
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer]
#9353540 - 12/02/08 07:23 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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hey man I just don't agree with you. mushrooms don't cause these problems, people do.
And that really is my final word on the matter, good night.
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krypto2000
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#9353660 - 12/02/08 07:36 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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This is stupid guys, what's the fucking difference here. People cause the problems and mushrooms cause the problems. You can't have one without the other, fuck.
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: krypto2000]
#9353862 - 12/02/08 08:00 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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i recommend st. john's wort (liquid extract is most potent ime), ginkgo, 750-1250mg relora, and 10-20g of inositol per day.
Edited by deranger (12/02/08 08:32 PM)
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sandman_130
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: TeamAmerica]
#9354689 - 12/02/08 09:46 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Stay clean until this is resolved. I had bad pot/mushroom induced anxiety. Mainly getting stoned everyday just got the best of me.
If you get completely clean from all drugs for a decent amount of time, you can return and use them in "MoDeRaTiOn"
But to the point...
I take 5-htp 3 times a week. After I trip I will wait 2 days and then take them for 7. Just one pill a day.
Sometimes I take breaks for months at a time, rotating vitamin and mineral cycles.
If your not eating enough of the right foods, or getting enough exercise, you brain will not produce enough serotonin. Which will affect your mood, and energy levels amongst many other things.
Their is no downside in taking 5-htp - the only reports I heard of using 5htp is when people overuse it and then their brain slows down the natural building of serotonin in the brain.
Which may or may not be true, but if I were you I would take one a day for a few weeks and see how you feel.
Probably alot better.
Ask your Doc! he just might say the same thing
-------------------- "There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible. And there is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints, a world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of its own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand." Maria Sabina
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deCypher
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#9354786 - 12/02/08 09:59 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beege said: Anxiety is not caused by mushrooms. It is caused by deep-seated emotional problems.
Please, show some evidence to support this wholly unverified position.
Mushrooms can and do cause anxiety if misused. Thinking that an external compound is wholly beneficial is deluded thinking, particularly when you blame all bad trips on "deep-seated emotional problems."
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: deCypher]
#9354808 - 12/02/08 10:02 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well they change the affinity of serotonin to their different receptors and changing what serotonin regulates which includes mood. So you can be very happy or sad or frightened and that experience can be so profound it stays with one for a long time, its totally possible to get anxiety from an unwanted truthful or profound trip.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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TEAL_MUST_DIE
hobbes was right
Registered: 06/04/07
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9354931 - 12/02/08 10:16 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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i've had plenty anxiety/paranoia/depression experiences off of smoking weed, depression lasting from 1 day to a week.
in the other hand, mushrooms have been very kind to me, not once have i experienced paranoia or anxiety but only controlable mild depression.
then again, i've never trip on more than 3.2 g and only as often as every two weeks.
if the paranoia induced by weed is pretty damn unconfortable, i can only imagine what it would be while high on shrooms, very scary.
Edited by TEAL_MUST_DIE (12/02/08 10:32 PM)
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: TEAL_MUST_DIE]
#9354962 - 12/02/08 10:20 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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The paranoia from weed should only last the duration of the high. If you paranoid up to a week after a smoke sesh that sounds like a mental disorder.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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TEAL_MUST_DIE
hobbes was right
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9355027 - 12/02/08 10:31 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: The paranoia from weed should only last the duration of the high. If you paranoid up to a week after a smoke sesh that sounds like a mental disorder.
indeed, i didn't specify clearly but i only meant the depression to be the one lasting a week, my mistake.
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: TEAL_MUST_DIE]
#9355037 - 12/02/08 10:32 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oh well it might be the weed, but are their other factors other than weed that could be continuing negative thought patterns?
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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deranger
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9355040 - 12/02/08 10:32 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: The paranoia from weed should only last the duration of the high. If you paranoid up to a week after a smoke sesh that sounds like a mental disorder.
surely you can't be including anxiety.
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TEAL_MUST_DIE
hobbes was right
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Posts: 456
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9355077 - 12/02/08 10:38 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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sure, the fact that i live w/ my parents and they're totally anti-drug, the fact that my heart races after smoking weed for some unknown reason (at least to me), and i guess many other factors that im not even aware of,
surprisely, mushrooms being a stroger psychedelic, do not give my these feelings of negativity at all, im starting to think that maybe im just not a weed person, no matter how much i want this to not be true.
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Ophanim
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: TEAL_MUST_DIE]
#9355873 - 12/03/08 01:14 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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For people claiming that pot/mushrooms simply can not cause anxiety/depression/whatnot: Please gain the perspective and open-mindedness that a psychedelic user should already have by now. How do you explain the psychedelic experience to someone? Nothing will prepare them for it. The careful person wanting to try something new will research these substances for days, perhaps even weeks or months, before actually trying one, and the experience will still catch them completely off-guard.
In the realm of physical possibilities, everything is relative. I have run a mile, therefor I can probably imagine what running two miles must be like. In the realm of mental possibilities, one thing does not compare to the next. 2g's of shrooms will not prepare you for 4. It's like a completely different drug. Suddenly instead of a somewhat altered perception, some giggles, and fun visuals, your world has been torn apart and put back together a completely different way. You're traveling planes and some of it is beautiful and some of it horrifying and it's all fascinating, and not until the next day can you wake up and piece it all together, realizing how precious and fragile reality is, in awe of the sheer amount of unrealized potential in existence.
After all this, why would you assume that you know anything about what I (or others) have been through via the mental side effects of psychedelic abuse? What the experienced psychedelic user knows is that one 4g trip will not even necessarily prepare you for the next 4g trip on the very same shrooms. What you should know is that you can not understand my condition, and your shallow ravings about your own experience as though you know all there is to know about these vastly under-researched illegal substances that alter the unbelievably complex human brain only make you look like complete arrogant asses to all but one another. Enjoy your club - you've created the exact kind of cognitive box that oppresses psychedelic voyagers every day.
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Ophanim
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9355902 - 12/03/08 01:23 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: Oh well it might be the weed, but are their other factors other than weed that could be continuing negative thought patterns?
There are a lot of things I'm unhappy with in life. However, for someone that's gone through what I have, it's immediately obvious if I am suffering a depressive/anxious episode for a reason or if it is chemical. If I think about my job and become depressed, or think about my responsibilities and become anxious, this is one thing. If I am enjoying myself with friends and - with no warning - I fall into a strange, trip-like headspace where everything feels wrong and depressing, that is completely different. When this happens, I feel completely alone, because nobody can help you when you're lost in your own head. This triggers fear, which is accompanied by anxiety, and I simply have to wait it out. Eventually it goes away, and I'm left feeling completely exhausted, although usually relieved to be out of the woods. It's become so routine by now that I no longer bring the fear on myself. I just let it go through its stages and avoid dwelling/focusing on it.
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tempingasashaman
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#9355914 - 12/03/08 01:31 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I notice weed has a continuing effect on myself to make me anxious.
When I started smoking it did the exact opposite. I don't know if its from the LSD or what, but besides smoking pot for the creative aspect its has done nothing but push me further into the deep end. A nice break sounds about right, almost welcome. I haven't not blazed continuously for a long time.
Anyway, if things aren't right with you, why take drugs? They really only make your crevices deeper and more wide.
-------------------- the greatest use of life is to spend it on something that will outlast it
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Ophanim
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: tempingasashaman]
#9355921 - 12/03/08 01:33 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I haven't been taking them for some time now. Or are are you considering 5-HTP a drug?
Abstinence seems like the best remedy. But if there's a way to fix it faster... why not?
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tempingasashaman
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#9355947 - 12/03/08 01:52 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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No, I'm interested in its usefulness myself. I agree with your reasons for taking it, I would like to know how its going.
Also I have a buddy who has been taking valerian root to help him sleep and he's been reporting some weird dreams, basically lucid. I think I might start giving this a try, anything to get to sleep.
Quote:
Ophanim said: Part of this might come from the fact that most of these people were combining pot with other things. For myself, the combination of mushrooms and pot (frequent, that is) altered my weed high to the point where I would trip from smoking.
Yes, LSD has lingered when I get high, sometimes its very pronounced, almost what I would call a flashback. Effects do come back, I stop talking, depth perception diminishes.
Quote:
teefizzle said: If i get anxiety after a difficult trip, I never truly recover until I have a good trip.
I've noticed this too.
I've never tripped without smoking weed. Are most other people like this too? I think adding pot to every experience might stack the cards too high, know what I mean?
-------------------- the greatest use of life is to spend it on something that will outlast it
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adnix
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer] 1
#9357063 - 12/03/08 10:30 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
LSDreamer said: ^That is so completely ridiculous that I don't even know how to begin to respond. I'm not even sure how you can reconcile that view with reality. Do you write off every reported instance of it as the user's fault that has nothing to do with the drug? Do you assume everyone who says this happens to them is lying? Or stupid? Or insane?
LSDreamer, aren't you used to that by now on these forums? People here are in total denial of truth, lest something negative be said about their favorite substance.
People, if you think that you are promoting acceptance of drugs by living in denial about their potential negative effects, you are not only deluding yourself, but you are also spreading misinformation and increasing the safety risk of using these substances.
It's hysterical how the plethora of reports about anxious/bad trips always necessitate the typical "oh it was probably your problem to begin with" response. This might even be true, but it's almost entirely irrelevant. If these drugs are triggers for anxiety issues, then we should admit instead of hand-waving it away.
Anyway, I personally will not stop smoking pot, or tripping on mushrooms, but I also won't deny that there can be negative repercussions (along with many good effects as well).
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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: adnix]
#9437094 - 12/15/08 02:17 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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UPDATE: FANTASTIC SUCCESS! This is absolutely a completely viable solution. I used a B-Complex vitamin with 50mg of 5-HTP daily
I found an interesting quote from a National Geographic article that may explain some of the oddities experienced regarding psychedelics and extended Serotonin disruption:
Quote:
At the vanguard of this research is Charles Grob, M.D., a professor of psychiatry and pediatrics at UCLA’s School of Medicine. In 1993 Dr. Grob launched the Hoasca Project, the first in-depth study of the physical and psychological effects of ayahuasca on humans. His team went to Brazil, where the plant mixture can be taken legally, to study members of a church, the União do Vegetal (UDV), who use ayahuasca as a sacrament, and compared them to a control group that had never ingested the substance. The studies found that all the ayahuasca-using UDV members had experienced remission without recurrence of their addictions, depression, or anxiety disorders. In addition, blood samples revealed a startling discovery: Ayahuasca seems to give users a greater sensitivity to serotonin—one of the mood-regulating chemical produced by the body—by increasing the number of serotonin receptors on nerve cells.
Source: http://www.kirasalak.com/Peru.html
By my thinking, it is likely that Psilocin could do this as well, although I should mention that I have used DMT plenty in the past (mostly alone, once in Aya made with Rue)
My research showed that many of the essential amino acids that ultimately contribute to mood and sleep are found primarily in meat (Tryptophan, Glutamine, Phenalylanine), appearing in vegetables only in minute amounts. Given that weed causes a strong tendency to consume massive amounts of goldfish crackers and such, it's not unlikely that the average stoner could be lacking in the protein department. In some susceptible individuals, this diet might cause a serotonin imbalance. Moreoever, if the use of tryptamine psychedelics can actually increase an individual's sensitivity to changes in serotonin levels, the side effects could be more extreme for someone who caused a serotonin imbalance via psychedelic use.
These are just likely explanations that I've found through my research. The only sure thing is this: For myself and everyone I know that's had to cease psychedelic use due to persisting negative mental side effects, this solved the problem. I haven't yet discovered what will happen when I cease taking the 5-HTP, but second hand information suggests that, given time, the body will repair itself.
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khronikind
Stoner
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression *UPDATE: Success* [Re: Ophanim]
#9437186 - 12/15/08 02:32 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ophanim said: I know a number of people (including myself) that have experienced severe anxiety or depression from the use of pot and mushrooms. For most of these individuals, these symptoms took place 100% of the time that they took these substances, but for myself and only two others (that I know of) the anxiety/depression persisted in sober states. Abstinence from any sort of drug (including alcohol) improves the symptoms, but - as of three months later - does not eliminate them. Recently a friend of mine who experiences these symptoms only when smoking has said that he is able to smoke again, having taken 5-HTP to initiate a sort of "repair." I'm wondering if the overuse of drugs that manipulate serotonin levels and/or receptors can cause lasting complications that 5-HTP may help eliminate.
I've read about a number of members on here that have developed pot/mushroom induced anxiety disorders. I would say that my case has been rather severe as I experienced significant perspective shifts and minor visual disturbances as well as severe depression/anxiety, intermingled with occasional bouts of confusion (in which my brain seems overwhelmed and lengthy thought processes become lost). While the first two weeks of this were a constant Hell, it has since become a much less serious weekly or bi-weekly occurrence. If time can repair the problem, I'm all for it, but perhaps 5-HTP could do it faster?
Update: I've personally verified that all troubling side effects are alleviated with this solution. Within a week of taking one B-complex vitamin and one 50mg 5-HTP capsule daily, all problems were repaired, and I feel awesome. More details in this reply: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9437094#Post9437094
This is definitely something I have had major problems with in my life. Not sure that the heavy pot use brought it on, but it couldn't have helped. I started smoking when I was 12 and started having big problems with depression/anxiety when I was about 15. Actually my first couple panic attacks were when I was high, anyway I am going to pick some up see how it goes thanks for the info.
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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression *UPDATE: Success* [Re: khronikind]
#9437288 - 12/15/08 02:47 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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No problem! Small side note: The production of Tryptophan-based supplements has fallen under scrutiny before thanks to a mishap back in the 80's, so make sure you grab a name brand 5-HTP that extracts the product from a natural source. I got the Solaray brand - they extract it from seed.
The B-Complex will speed up your results drastically, especially B6, as it will help your body make Serotonin from the 5-HTP. I strongly recommend a full B-Complex, as you will find advocated in this article: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-bhfibro&msg=25087.1
For me, the B-Complex had such extravagant results, it was almost a drug in and of itself, although it is in truth only a type of multivitamin.
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GNIOM1498
Death Cup
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression *UPDATE: Success* [Re: Ophanim]
#9437449 - 12/15/08 03:10 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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well I have to agree with this mushrooms made me depressed/anxiety. I tripped once a week for about 2 months - 3 months over a summer vacation. I had more anxiety thats for sure but it helped me with school and im serious. Before my anxiety problem I had a 2.8 gpa after words I went to a harder school and got a 4.0 each semester for 3 yrs. The anxiety was enough for me to worry so much that i obsessed about studying and getting a good job I mean I would stay in and study at the library on friday and saturday nights.. But now that I have a good job this little anxiety shit has become annoying. I think I will give this a try. Thanks for the info 5 shrooms for you
-------------------- ----ALL MY POSTS ARE FICTIONAL-------
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psychonaut52
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#10912404 - 08/22/09 01:44 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beege said:
Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: I have to disagree with that. Psychedelics (classical) act on serotonin and serotonin is responsible for anger, aggression, body temperature, mood, sleep, sexuality, appetite. It has nothing to do with life situation its totally chemical, and if you have never had a 'difficult' part of a trip then your lucky.
I have had extremely difficult trips, but they did not lead to permanent anxiety problems.
This is the last I'm going to say on the subject because I'm tired of repeating myself and having words put into my mouth.
Are you everyone? Just because it hasn't happened to YOU doesn't mean it's not true.
Hell, even some anti-depressants (drugs used to treat depression) can actually cause more depression in those people. I think it's entirely plausible that weed and mushrooms may somehow modulate mood in a way that improves depression in some (possibly those that already have mood disorders) and create them in some others (maybe by throwing off what was a balanced neurochemistry?).
-------------------- "Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment." -Buddha COGNITIVE LIBERTY NOW!
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psychonaut52
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#10912503 - 08/22/09 01:56 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ophanim said: UPDATE: FANTASTIC SUCCESS! This is absolutely a completely viable solution. I used a B-Complex vitamin with 50mg of 5-HTP daily
I found an interesting quote from a National Geographic article that may explain some of the oddities experienced regarding psychedelics and extended Serotonin disruption:
Quote:
At the vanguard of this research is Charles Grob, M.D., a professor of psychiatry and pediatrics at UCLA’s School of Medicine. In 1993 Dr. Grob launched the Hoasca Project, the first in-depth study of the physical and psychological effects of ayahuasca on humans. His team went to Brazil, where the plant mixture can be taken legally, to study members of a church, the Uni�o do Vegetal (UDV), who use ayahuasca as a sacrament, and compared them to a control group that had never ingested the substance. The studies found that all the ayahuasca-using UDV members had experienced remission without recurrence of their addictions, depression, or anxiety disorders. In addition, blood samples revealed a startling discovery: Ayahuasca seems to give users a greater sensitivity to serotonin—one of the mood-regulating chemical produced by the body—by increasing the number of serotonin receptors on nerve cells.
Source: http://www.kirasalak.com/Peru.html
By my thinking, it is likely that Psilocin could do this as well, although I should mention that I have used DMT plenty in the past (mostly alone, once in Aya made with Rue)
My research showed that many of the essential amino acids that ultimately contribute to mood and sleep are found primarily in meat (Tryptophan, Glutamine, Phenalylanine), appearing in vegetables only in minute amounts. Given that weed causes a strong tendency to consume massive amounts of goldfish crackers and such, it's not unlikely that the average stoner could be lacking in the protein department. In some susceptible individuals, this diet might cause a serotonin imbalance. Moreoever, if the use of tryptamine psychedelics can actually increase an individual's sensitivity to changes in serotonin levels, the side effects could be more extreme for someone who caused a serotonin imbalance via psychedelic use.
These are just likely explanations that I've found through my research. The only sure thing is this: For myself and everyone I know that's had to cease psychedelic use due to persisting negative mental side effects, this solved the problem. I haven't yet discovered what will happen when I cease taking the 5-HTP, but second hand information suggests that, given time, the body will repair itself.
Ayahuasca, it must be noted, also has pharmacological effects that most psychedelics don't due to the inclusion of an MAOI. Be careful assuming that the positive effects are from the psychedelic in the mix, not that I'm denying the potential for positive long-term effects of DMT, just saying that the MAOI may be supplying the majority of the anti-depressant effects.
-------------------- "Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment." -Buddha COGNITIVE LIBERTY NOW!
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krypto2000
Unknown
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: psychonaut52]
#10912672 - 08/22/09 02:18 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Old thread is old.
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quiksilver98
PsychedelicInsighter
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression *UPDATE: Success* [Re: Ophanim]
#10923956 - 08/24/09 12:04 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Marijuana can only cause paranoia which can lead to anxiety. also any psychedelic substance can activated subconsious/perinatal material, it is known as the path to enlightenment. Ive talked to 2 doctors with phds who have studied marijuana for over 20 years. Those people might have anxiety/depression, that could have developed when smoking marijauna, but it would have happened anyway. When marijuana trends were going up, psychotic episode trends stayed the same.
-------------------- To open your mind you must close your eyes--->Perception is key<---Reality is not Actualality
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quiksilver98
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: AgingHippy]
#10923979 - 08/24/09 12:08 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah that is also true, memory clevexes in the brain store strong emotional memories about intense experiences, and the only way to make a HUGE negative clevex go away is by having a good trip. But also some anxiety and depression is also caused by activated material in subconsious/perinatal matrice.
-------------------- To open your mind you must close your eyes--->Perception is key<---Reality is not Actualality
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cynick420
stranger danger!
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer]
#10924326 - 08/24/09 01:18 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
LSDreamer said: I've had panic attacks on mushrooms over absolutely nothing. No basis, no deep seated emotional problem, just outright full blow, senseless, baseless panic and fear. To say that it's impossible for mushrooms to cause anxiety is ludicrous.
for sure. i have had experiences like that both with marijuana and mushrooms...never acid but thats just me. to try to ignore anyone with negative effects is to try to say that psychedelics or marijuana have no negative effects whatsoever...and thats insane to think as well. they may be substantially less common than prescribed drugs, but hell a lot of people have been nauseous from psychedelics and marijuana can cause irritation to the lungs especially with large hits and bongs, although avoidable.
marijuana and mushrooms can exacerbate an existing problem and to deny that is riddiculous
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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: cynick420]
#13239033 - 09/24/10 12:11 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm bumping this ancient thread because I've made a huge update in the first post. It's been quite a while now and I've been continuously receiving PM's about the condition ever since I created this thread. I can't promise the things that worked for me will work for everyone, but I want to share my experiences. People may do with them what they wish.
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KingEmblem
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#13242188 - 09/24/10 07:21 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can see where you would think that MJ/shrooms can give someone anxiety. To be honest, even I have experienced a good deal of existential anxiety due to these substances. However, in fairness and retrospect, I was not very happy before taking these substances, and I have always had mild anxiety (doesn't everybody? I'm not saying I have an anxiety disorder).
Overall I feel happier after taking psychedelics, and can't exactly side with the fact that mushrooms or MJ CAUSE anxiety or depression. Even though I was surprised to see how close this "symptom" is to my own experiences: "intermingled with occasional bouts of confusion (in which my brain seems overwhelmed and lengthy thought processes become lost)." I've never seen anyone describe this but I get it too and you explained it as best as probably possible. I get the lengthy, but really specific, very abstracted thought process, and if I stop focusing I lose it and can't even remember what I was thinking about. However, this doesn't cause me anxiety. Oftentimes I feel like I've actually figured out something great through a very lengthy abstraction process and then when I forget it I feel a bit frustrated, but I almost feel like there were so many stipulations in my own mind that imagining it "normally" is probably impossible, much like the psychedelic experience in general. I guess I don't generally have these intense processes on negative thoughts, as I generally come out of it with a neutral to optimistic feeling.
What I believe is happening to people who get severe anxiety and/or depression from these substances is these substances simply bringing to the surface feelings that likely already existed, or had the potential to exist. The fact is psychedelics are very powerful and they can change or even enhance your way of thinking, and this can be applied both positively and negatively. Positively is having a "spiritual experience" and feeling great, having an optimistic afterglow for weeks afterward. People may even find themselves better able to concentrate on stuff, especially what they love, some people even have their day-to-day anxiety or depression alleviated, etc. Obviously the positive spectrum is very wide. On the negative side, you may feel anxiety or depression from increased awareness of a world you probably already felt uneasy with. You may get amazing analytical and cognitive abilities only to focus it on negative aspects of life. I side with the problem ultimately falling on the user, not the substance. And I also believe it can be fixed, too.
-------------------- triptych
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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: KingEmblem]
#13243148 - 09/25/10 12:22 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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Actually, KingEmblem, I mostly agree with you. However, two thoughts come to mind: - Not everyone is capable of dealing with whatever thoughts or feelings that psychedelics uncover, and - The facts that 5-HTP and B-vitamins worked as a quick fix and raw foodism ultimately cured me makes me confident that there is a strong chemical component at work here. The question is, do we need to provide the body a means to cure itself through healthy living, or are we capable of manually dealing with those problems through meditation or other means of psychotherapy? I'd imagine this ultimately depends on the individual, but I'm not 100% sure that I would have had the fortitude to withstand the anxiety attacks had they gone on much longer. Eventually, one can reach a certain state of hopelessness and fatigue that makes life seem pointless.
At any rate, to actually determine the degree to which we're dealing with a chemical cause vs. a more metaphysical one (are emotions triggered through circumstance considered metaphysical?) we would have to see a marriage between science and mysticism, and I'm not sure that neuroscience is anywhere near such an achievement.
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cakbatter
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#13262162 - 09/28/10 10:40 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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So your saying Raw foodism will naturally cure me, I have had this for 4 months, the 5 htp no longer works.
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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: cakbatter]
#13274647 - 10/01/10 10:52 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm certainly not saying it *will* cure you, just that it absolutely DID cure me. I would love to expect that it works the same for everyone. At any rate, it worked VERY quickly as a result of the juice fast. If you abstain from all drugs and try raw foods for one month and don't notice an improvement, then I'll be surprised.
Like I said, for me the attacks were really gone after a juice fast, which only takes three days to a week, so here's the basic recipe for the "green drink" that I used throughout. You can uses these green smoothies or real juices, but don't use pasteurized or concentrated juice from the store (if you don't juice it yourself, it's always pasteurized).
Green drink: About 3-4 cups of water 1 bunch spinach (tastiest) or 1 head lettuce (any kind) - I usually change the green I use on a daily basis 1 apple 1 banana 1/2 large avocado or whole small avocado (creates a smooth, creamy texture) Any other fruits you want to use for sweetening. Frozen berries work great.
Blend.
That's the basic recipe. You can swap out just about anything, and if you don't like avocado then just omit it. Swapping juice instead of water is delicious, but remember that you should make the juices yourself if you do that. I would drink between one and three blenders of that a day for the entirety of the juice fast. No other food, and no other drinks besides water. Afterwards, take three or four days to break the juice fast like this:
Day one: Make your green drink, eat a very small serving of soft fruit (watermelon, kiwi, etc.) in the morning. Possibly eat another small serving of fruit in the afternoon depending on how you're feeling.
Day two: Eat a few servings of fruit, plus green drink. Be aware of how your stomach feels.
Day three: Add vegetables, maybe a light salad (if you must have a dressing, mix raw apple cider vinegar with some olive oil and add a little salt)
And then you can slide right into the raw foods from there. I must stress that breaking the juice fast is the most important part to do properly: You will feel like ass if you cram your maw (which is a strong urge at that point).
Anyway, please understand that you don't need to juice fast to try the raw foods, but it is a very streamlined way to experience the benefits and gauge whether or not it will work for you. And don't be alarmed if you experience some bad anxiety initially - the detoxification process usually involves a sharp increase in all negative symptoms before relief.
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cd123
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#14415149 - 05/07/11 12:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hey Ophanim,
Not sure if you still visit the site, but I hope you do cause I really would appreciate the opportunity to talk with you.
I have recently discovered that the root of my anxiety for the past 8 years has been caused by marijuana. I am kicking myself in the ass because if only I knew earlier, I would have saved many years of misery and other health issues if I had only came to my senses.
Anyway, for the past 2 years I finally was on the right track. I started looking to natural medicine to help cure me of my anxiety, and found out about Neurotransmitter tests. The test unveiled that my serotonin and dopamine levels were out of wack so I started supplementing. Over the course of a year, I finally got my levels in check "supposedly" and went back to smoking pot. Sure enough within a few months of being off the supplements and going back to smoking, my anxiety came back full force. Unsure of what caused it, it finally slapped me in the face that it could have been the weed. The last two weeks, I started taking a supplement called Travacor which has 5-htp along with taurine, and theanine *which I don't think conflict*. But I have recently began to feel better again.
Now I am taking a low dose, but not entirely sure how much 5-htp I am ingesting or how long I should be on this. Personally I don't think the whole food diet or juice fasting is necessary. But none the less, it is very healthy none the less. I have been meditating for the last 3 years or so after having the idea be introduced to me by a friend. Helped me imensely but never was the cure all.
So I am not really sure where to go from here. How long was it until you stopped the 5-htp?
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: cd123]
#14422351 - 05/08/11 10:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ibogaine works wonders for grounding the personality. I took my first dose a couple weeks ago, which was 3.8g TA extract. Suffering through years of drug induced psychosis, this ibogaine experience has helped me to feel more organized and understanding of what has happened within my mind. This understanding has proved so far as a great release. There is far less baggage now.
I'm also taking a combination of supplements that seem to be working wonders.
Acetyl-L-Carnitine - expression of thought is much easier. Words come easier, there's less a need to try to find what to say, rather speech comes more naturally.
R-ALA - works with the Carnitine to make it more effective.
Spirulina - 3 grams a day completely eliminated my chronic fatigue syndrome.
All those combined with fruit, veggies, exercise, and meditation make this thing a whole tonne a lot easier to deal with.
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