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OfflineKingEmblem
Cannaisseur
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Registered: 03/27/10
Posts: 871
Loc: LA
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
    #13242188 - 09/24/10 07:21 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I can see where you would think that MJ/shrooms can give someone anxiety. To be honest, even I have experienced a good deal of existential anxiety due to these substances. However, in fairness and retrospect, I was not very happy before taking these substances, and I have always had mild anxiety (doesn't everybody? I'm not saying I have an anxiety disorder).

Overall I feel happier after taking psychedelics, and can't exactly side with the fact that mushrooms or MJ CAUSE anxiety or depression. Even though I was surprised to see how close this "symptom" is to my own experiences: "intermingled with occasional bouts of confusion (in which my brain seems overwhelmed and lengthy thought processes become lost)." I've never seen anyone describe this but I get it too and you explained it as best as probably possible. I get the lengthy, but really specific, very abstracted thought process, and if I stop focusing I lose it and can't even remember what I was thinking about. However, this doesn't cause me anxiety. Oftentimes I feel like I've actually figured out something great through a very lengthy abstraction process and then when I forget it I feel a bit frustrated, but I almost feel like there were so many stipulations in my own mind that imagining it "normally" is probably impossible, much like the psychedelic experience in general. I guess I don't generally have these intense processes on negative thoughts, as I generally come out of it with a neutral to optimistic feeling.

What I believe is happening to people who get severe anxiety and/or depression from these substances is these substances simply bringing to the surface feelings that likely already existed, or had the potential to exist. The fact is psychedelics are very powerful and they can change or even enhance your way of thinking, and this can be applied both positively and negatively. Positively is having a "spiritual experience" and feeling great, having an optimistic afterglow for weeks afterward. People may even find themselves better able to concentrate on stuff, especially what they love, some people even have their day-to-day anxiety or depression alleviated, etc. Obviously the positive spectrum is very wide. On the negative side, you may feel anxiety or depression from increased awareness of a world you probably already felt uneasy with. You may get amazing analytical and cognitive abilities only to focus it on negative aspects of life. I side with the problem ultimately falling on the user, not the substance. And I also believe it can be fixed, too.


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triptych

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OfflineOphanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
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Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 1,002
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: KingEmblem]
    #13243148 - 09/25/10 12:22 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Actually, KingEmblem, I mostly agree with you. However, two thoughts come to mind:
- Not everyone is capable of dealing with whatever thoughts or feelings that psychedelics uncover, and
- The facts that 5-HTP and B-vitamins worked as a quick fix and raw foodism ultimately cured me makes me confident that there is a strong chemical component at work here. The question is, do we need to provide the body a means to cure itself through healthy living, or are we capable of manually dealing with those problems through meditation or other means of psychotherapy? I'd imagine this ultimately depends on the individual, but I'm not 100% sure that I would have had the fortitude to withstand the anxiety attacks had they gone on much longer. Eventually, one can reach a certain state of hopelessness and fatigue that makes life seem pointless.

At any rate, to actually determine the degree to which we're dealing with a chemical cause vs. a more metaphysical one (are emotions triggered through circumstance considered metaphysical?)  we would have to see a marriage between science and mysticism, and I'm not sure that neuroscience is anywhere near such an achievement.

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Offlinecakbatter
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Registered: 09/02/10
Posts: 18
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
    #13262162 - 09/28/10 10:40 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

So your saying Raw foodism will naturally cure me, I have had this for 4 months, the 5 htp no longer works.

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OfflineOphanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
Male

Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 1,002
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: cakbatter]
    #13274647 - 10/01/10 10:52 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I'm certainly not saying it *will* cure you, just that it absolutely DID cure me. I would love to expect that it works the same for everyone. At any rate, it worked VERY quickly as a result of the juice fast. If you abstain from all drugs and try raw foods for one month and don't notice an improvement, then I'll be surprised.

Like I said, for me the attacks were really gone after a juice fast, which only takes three days to a week, so here's the basic recipe for the "green drink" that I used throughout. You can uses these green smoothies or real juices, but don't use pasteurized or concentrated juice from the store (if you don't juice it yourself, it's always pasteurized).

Green drink:
About 3-4 cups of water
1 bunch spinach (tastiest) or 1 head lettuce (any kind) - I usually change the green I use on a daily basis
1 apple
1 banana
1/2 large avocado or whole small avocado (creates a smooth, creamy texture)
Any other fruits you want to use for sweetening. Frozen berries work great.

Blend.

That's the basic recipe. You can swap out just about anything, and if you don't like avocado then just omit it. Swapping juice instead of water is delicious, but remember that you should make the juices yourself if you do that. I would drink between one and three blenders of that a day for the entirety of the juice fast. No other food, and no other drinks besides water. Afterwards, take three or four days to break the juice fast like this:

Day one: Make your green drink, eat a very small serving of soft fruit (watermelon, kiwi, etc.) in the morning. Possibly eat another small serving of fruit in the afternoon depending on how you're feeling.

Day two: Eat a few servings of fruit, plus green drink. Be aware of how your stomach feels.

Day three: Add vegetables, maybe a light salad (if you must have a dressing, mix raw apple cider vinegar with some olive oil and add a little salt)

And then you can slide right into the raw foods from there. I must stress that breaking the juice fast is the most important part to do properly: You will feel like ass if you cram your maw (which is a strong urge at that point).

Anyway, please understand that you don't need to juice fast to try the raw foods, but it is a very streamlined way to experience the benefits and gauge whether or not it will work for you. And don't be alarmed if you experience some bad anxiety initially - the detoxification process usually involves a sharp increase in all negative symptoms before relief.

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Offlinecd123
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
    #14415149 - 05/07/11 12:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hey Ophanim,

Not sure if you still visit the site, but I hope you do cause I really would appreciate the opportunity to talk with you.

I have recently discovered that the root of my anxiety for the past 8 years has been caused by marijuana.  I am kicking myself in the ass because if only I knew earlier, I would have saved many years of misery and other health issues if I had only came to my senses. 

Anyway, for the past 2 years I finally was on the right track.  I started looking to natural medicine to help cure me of my anxiety, and found out about Neurotransmitter tests.  The test unveiled that my serotonin and dopamine levels were out of wack so I started supplementing.  Over the course of a year, I finally got my levels in check "supposedly" and went back to smoking pot.  Sure enough within a few months of being off the supplements and going back to smoking, my anxiety came back full force.  Unsure of what caused it, it finally slapped me in the face that it could have been the weed.  The last two weeks, I started taking a supplement called Travacor which has 5-htp along with taurine, and theanine *which I don't think conflict*.  But I have recently began to feel better again. 

Now I am taking a low dose, but not entirely sure how much 5-htp I am ingesting or how long I should be on this.  Personally I don't think the whole food diet or juice fasting is necessary.  But none the less, it is very healthy none the less.  I have been meditating for the last 3 years or so after having the idea be introduced to me by a friend.  Helped me imensely but never was the cure all. 

So I am not really sure where to go from here.  How long was it until you stopped the 5-htp?

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Invisiblederanger
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: cd123]
    #14422351 - 05/08/11 10:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ibogaine works wonders for grounding the personality.  I took my first dose a couple weeks ago, which was 3.8g TA extract.  Suffering through years of drug induced psychosis, this ibogaine experience has helped me to feel more organized and understanding of what has happened within my mind.  This understanding has proved so far as a great release.  There is far less baggage now.

I'm also taking a combination of supplements that seem to be working wonders.

Acetyl-L-Carnitine - expression of thought is much easier.  Words come easier, there's less a need to try to find what to say, rather speech comes more naturally. 

R-ALA - works with the Carnitine to make it more effective.

Spirulina - 3 grams a day completely eliminated my chronic fatigue syndrome.

All those combined with fruit, veggies, exercise, and meditation make this thing a whole tonne a lot easier to deal with.

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