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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: TEAL_MUST_DIE]
#9355037 - 12/02/08 10:32 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oh well it might be the weed, but are their other factors other than weed that could be continuing negative thought patterns?
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9355040 - 12/02/08 10:32 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: The paranoia from weed should only last the duration of the high. If you paranoid up to a week after a smoke sesh that sounds like a mental disorder.
surely you can't be including anxiety.
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TEAL_MUST_DIE
hobbes was right
Registered: 06/04/07
Posts: 456
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9355077 - 12/02/08 10:38 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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sure, the fact that i live w/ my parents and they're totally anti-drug, the fact that my heart races after smoking weed for some unknown reason (at least to me), and i guess many other factors that im not even aware of,
surprisely, mushrooms being a stroger psychedelic, do not give my these feelings of negativity at all, im starting to think that maybe im just not a weed person, no matter how much i want this to not be true.
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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 1,002
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: TEAL_MUST_DIE]
#9355873 - 12/03/08 01:14 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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For people claiming that pot/mushrooms simply can not cause anxiety/depression/whatnot: Please gain the perspective and open-mindedness that a psychedelic user should already have by now. How do you explain the psychedelic experience to someone? Nothing will prepare them for it. The careful person wanting to try something new will research these substances for days, perhaps even weeks or months, before actually trying one, and the experience will still catch them completely off-guard.
In the realm of physical possibilities, everything is relative. I have run a mile, therefor I can probably imagine what running two miles must be like. In the realm of mental possibilities, one thing does not compare to the next. 2g's of shrooms will not prepare you for 4. It's like a completely different drug. Suddenly instead of a somewhat altered perception, some giggles, and fun visuals, your world has been torn apart and put back together a completely different way. You're traveling planes and some of it is beautiful and some of it horrifying and it's all fascinating, and not until the next day can you wake up and piece it all together, realizing how precious and fragile reality is, in awe of the sheer amount of unrealized potential in existence.
After all this, why would you assume that you know anything about what I (or others) have been through via the mental side effects of psychedelic abuse? What the experienced psychedelic user knows is that one 4g trip will not even necessarily prepare you for the next 4g trip on the very same shrooms. What you should know is that you can not understand my condition, and your shallow ravings about your own experience as though you know all there is to know about these vastly under-researched illegal substances that alter the unbelievably complex human brain only make you look like complete arrogant asses to all but one another. Enjoy your club - you've created the exact kind of cognitive box that oppresses psychedelic voyagers every day.
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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 1,002
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#9355902 - 12/03/08 01:23 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: Oh well it might be the weed, but are their other factors other than weed that could be continuing negative thought patterns?
There are a lot of things I'm unhappy with in life. However, for someone that's gone through what I have, it's immediately obvious if I am suffering a depressive/anxious episode for a reason or if it is chemical. If I think about my job and become depressed, or think about my responsibilities and become anxious, this is one thing. If I am enjoying myself with friends and - with no warning - I fall into a strange, trip-like headspace where everything feels wrong and depressing, that is completely different. When this happens, I feel completely alone, because nobody can help you when you're lost in your own head. This triggers fear, which is accompanied by anxiety, and I simply have to wait it out. Eventually it goes away, and I'm left feeling completely exhausted, although usually relieved to be out of the woods. It's become so routine by now that I no longer bring the fear on myself. I just let it go through its stages and avoid dwelling/focusing on it.
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tempingasashaman
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Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1,374
Loc: under the rainbow
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#9355914 - 12/03/08 01:31 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I notice weed has a continuing effect on myself to make me anxious.
When I started smoking it did the exact opposite. I don't know if its from the LSD or what, but besides smoking pot for the creative aspect its has done nothing but push me further into the deep end. A nice break sounds about right, almost welcome. I haven't not blazed continuously for a long time.
Anyway, if things aren't right with you, why take drugs? They really only make your crevices deeper and more wide.
-------------------- the greatest use of life is to spend it on something that will outlast it
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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 1,002
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: tempingasashaman]
#9355921 - 12/03/08 01:33 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I haven't been taking them for some time now. Or are are you considering 5-HTP a drug?
Abstinence seems like the best remedy. But if there's a way to fix it faster... why not?
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tempingasashaman
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Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 1,374
Loc: under the rainbow
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#9355947 - 12/03/08 01:52 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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No, I'm interested in its usefulness myself. I agree with your reasons for taking it, I would like to know how its going.
Also I have a buddy who has been taking valerian root to help him sleep and he's been reporting some weird dreams, basically lucid. I think I might start giving this a try, anything to get to sleep.
Quote:
Ophanim said: Part of this might come from the fact that most of these people were combining pot with other things. For myself, the combination of mushrooms and pot (frequent, that is) altered my weed high to the point where I would trip from smoking.
Yes, LSD has lingered when I get high, sometimes its very pronounced, almost what I would call a flashback. Effects do come back, I stop talking, depth perception diminishes.
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teefizzle said: If i get anxiety after a difficult trip, I never truly recover until I have a good trip.
I've noticed this too.
I've never tripped without smoking weed. Are most other people like this too? I think adding pot to every experience might stack the cards too high, know what I mean?
-------------------- the greatest use of life is to spend it on something that will outlast it
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adnix
Stranger
Registered: 06/30/08
Posts: 44
Last seen: 9 years, 13 days
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer] 1
#9357063 - 12/03/08 10:30 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
LSDreamer said: ^That is so completely ridiculous that I don't even know how to begin to respond. I'm not even sure how you can reconcile that view with reality. Do you write off every reported instance of it as the user's fault that has nothing to do with the drug? Do you assume everyone who says this happens to them is lying? Or stupid? Or insane?
LSDreamer, aren't you used to that by now on these forums? People here are in total denial of truth, lest something negative be said about their favorite substance.
People, if you think that you are promoting acceptance of drugs by living in denial about their potential negative effects, you are not only deluding yourself, but you are also spreading misinformation and increasing the safety risk of using these substances.
It's hysterical how the plethora of reports about anxious/bad trips always necessitate the typical "oh it was probably your problem to begin with" response. This might even be true, but it's almost entirely irrelevant. If these drugs are triggers for anxiety issues, then we should admit instead of hand-waving it away.
Anyway, I personally will not stop smoking pot, or tripping on mushrooms, but I also won't deny that there can be negative repercussions (along with many good effects as well).
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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 1,002
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: adnix]
#9437094 - 12/15/08 02:17 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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UPDATE: FANTASTIC SUCCESS! This is absolutely a completely viable solution. I used a B-Complex vitamin with 50mg of 5-HTP daily
I found an interesting quote from a National Geographic article that may explain some of the oddities experienced regarding psychedelics and extended Serotonin disruption:
Quote:
At the vanguard of this research is Charles Grob, M.D., a professor of psychiatry and pediatrics at UCLA’s School of Medicine. In 1993 Dr. Grob launched the Hoasca Project, the first in-depth study of the physical and psychological effects of ayahuasca on humans. His team went to Brazil, where the plant mixture can be taken legally, to study members of a church, the União do Vegetal (UDV), who use ayahuasca as a sacrament, and compared them to a control group that had never ingested the substance. The studies found that all the ayahuasca-using UDV members had experienced remission without recurrence of their addictions, depression, or anxiety disorders. In addition, blood samples revealed a startling discovery: Ayahuasca seems to give users a greater sensitivity to serotonin—one of the mood-regulating chemical produced by the body—by increasing the number of serotonin receptors on nerve cells.
Source: http://www.kirasalak.com/Peru.html
By my thinking, it is likely that Psilocin could do this as well, although I should mention that I have used DMT plenty in the past (mostly alone, once in Aya made with Rue)
My research showed that many of the essential amino acids that ultimately contribute to mood and sleep are found primarily in meat (Tryptophan, Glutamine, Phenalylanine), appearing in vegetables only in minute amounts. Given that weed causes a strong tendency to consume massive amounts of goldfish crackers and such, it's not unlikely that the average stoner could be lacking in the protein department. In some susceptible individuals, this diet might cause a serotonin imbalance. Moreoever, if the use of tryptamine psychedelics can actually increase an individual's sensitivity to changes in serotonin levels, the side effects could be more extreme for someone who caused a serotonin imbalance via psychedelic use.
These are just likely explanations that I've found through my research. The only sure thing is this: For myself and everyone I know that's had to cease psychedelic use due to persisting negative mental side effects, this solved the problem. I haven't yet discovered what will happen when I cease taking the 5-HTP, but second hand information suggests that, given time, the body will repair itself.
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khronikind
Stoner
Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 73
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression *UPDATE: Success* [Re: Ophanim]
#9437186 - 12/15/08 02:32 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ophanim said: I know a number of people (including myself) that have experienced severe anxiety or depression from the use of pot and mushrooms. For most of these individuals, these symptoms took place 100% of the time that they took these substances, but for myself and only two others (that I know of) the anxiety/depression persisted in sober states. Abstinence from any sort of drug (including alcohol) improves the symptoms, but - as of three months later - does not eliminate them. Recently a friend of mine who experiences these symptoms only when smoking has said that he is able to smoke again, having taken 5-HTP to initiate a sort of "repair." I'm wondering if the overuse of drugs that manipulate serotonin levels and/or receptors can cause lasting complications that 5-HTP may help eliminate.
I've read about a number of members on here that have developed pot/mushroom induced anxiety disorders. I would say that my case has been rather severe as I experienced significant perspective shifts and minor visual disturbances as well as severe depression/anxiety, intermingled with occasional bouts of confusion (in which my brain seems overwhelmed and lengthy thought processes become lost). While the first two weeks of this were a constant Hell, it has since become a much less serious weekly or bi-weekly occurrence. If time can repair the problem, I'm all for it, but perhaps 5-HTP could do it faster?
Update: I've personally verified that all troubling side effects are alleviated with this solution. Within a week of taking one B-complex vitamin and one 50mg 5-HTP capsule daily, all problems were repaired, and I feel awesome. More details in this reply: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9437094#Post9437094
This is definitely something I have had major problems with in my life. Not sure that the heavy pot use brought it on, but it couldn't have helped. I started smoking when I was 12 and started having big problems with depression/anxiety when I was about 15. Actually my first couple panic attacks were when I was high, anyway I am going to pick some up see how it goes thanks for the info.
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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 1,002
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression *UPDATE: Success* [Re: khronikind]
#9437288 - 12/15/08 02:47 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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No problem! Small side note: The production of Tryptophan-based supplements has fallen under scrutiny before thanks to a mishap back in the 80's, so make sure you grab a name brand 5-HTP that extracts the product from a natural source. I got the Solaray brand - they extract it from seed.
The B-Complex will speed up your results drastically, especially B6, as it will help your body make Serotonin from the 5-HTP. I strongly recommend a full B-Complex, as you will find advocated in this article: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-bhfibro&msg=25087.1
For me, the B-Complex had such extravagant results, it was almost a drug in and of itself, although it is in truth only a type of multivitamin.
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GNIOM1498
Death Cup
Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 945
Loc: My home is where my spiri...
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression *UPDATE: Success* [Re: Ophanim]
#9437449 - 12/15/08 03:10 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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well I have to agree with this mushrooms made me depressed/anxiety. I tripped once a week for about 2 months - 3 months over a summer vacation. I had more anxiety thats for sure but it helped me with school and im serious. Before my anxiety problem I had a 2.8 gpa after words I went to a harder school and got a 4.0 each semester for 3 yrs. The anxiety was enough for me to worry so much that i obsessed about studying and getting a good job I mean I would stay in and study at the library on friday and saturday nights.. But now that I have a good job this little anxiety shit has become annoying. I think I will give this a try. Thanks for the info 5 shrooms for you
-------------------- ----ALL MY POSTS ARE FICTIONAL-------
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psychonaut52
Stranger
Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 120
Loc: The Amazon Jungle
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Beege]
#10912404 - 08/22/09 01:44 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beege said:
Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: I have to disagree with that. Psychedelics (classical) act on serotonin and serotonin is responsible for anger, aggression, body temperature, mood, sleep, sexuality, appetite. It has nothing to do with life situation its totally chemical, and if you have never had a 'difficult' part of a trip then your lucky.
I have had extremely difficult trips, but they did not lead to permanent anxiety problems.
This is the last I'm going to say on the subject because I'm tired of repeating myself and having words put into my mouth.
Are you everyone? Just because it hasn't happened to YOU doesn't mean it's not true.
Hell, even some anti-depressants (drugs used to treat depression) can actually cause more depression in those people. I think it's entirely plausible that weed and mushrooms may somehow modulate mood in a way that improves depression in some (possibly those that already have mood disorders) and create them in some others (maybe by throwing off what was a balanced neurochemistry?).
-------------------- "Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment." -Buddha COGNITIVE LIBERTY NOW!
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psychonaut52
Stranger
Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 120
Loc: The Amazon Jungle
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: Ophanim]
#10912503 - 08/22/09 01:56 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ophanim said: UPDATE: FANTASTIC SUCCESS! This is absolutely a completely viable solution. I used a B-Complex vitamin with 50mg of 5-HTP daily
I found an interesting quote from a National Geographic article that may explain some of the oddities experienced regarding psychedelics and extended Serotonin disruption:
Quote:
At the vanguard of this research is Charles Grob, M.D., a professor of psychiatry and pediatrics at UCLA’s School of Medicine. In 1993 Dr. Grob launched the Hoasca Project, the first in-depth study of the physical and psychological effects of ayahuasca on humans. His team went to Brazil, where the plant mixture can be taken legally, to study members of a church, the Uni�o do Vegetal (UDV), who use ayahuasca as a sacrament, and compared them to a control group that had never ingested the substance. The studies found that all the ayahuasca-using UDV members had experienced remission without recurrence of their addictions, depression, or anxiety disorders. In addition, blood samples revealed a startling discovery: Ayahuasca seems to give users a greater sensitivity to serotonin—one of the mood-regulating chemical produced by the body—by increasing the number of serotonin receptors on nerve cells.
Source: http://www.kirasalak.com/Peru.html
By my thinking, it is likely that Psilocin could do this as well, although I should mention that I have used DMT plenty in the past (mostly alone, once in Aya made with Rue)
My research showed that many of the essential amino acids that ultimately contribute to mood and sleep are found primarily in meat (Tryptophan, Glutamine, Phenalylanine), appearing in vegetables only in minute amounts. Given that weed causes a strong tendency to consume massive amounts of goldfish crackers and such, it's not unlikely that the average stoner could be lacking in the protein department. In some susceptible individuals, this diet might cause a serotonin imbalance. Moreoever, if the use of tryptamine psychedelics can actually increase an individual's sensitivity to changes in serotonin levels, the side effects could be more extreme for someone who caused a serotonin imbalance via psychedelic use.
These are just likely explanations that I've found through my research. The only sure thing is this: For myself and everyone I know that's had to cease psychedelic use due to persisting negative mental side effects, this solved the problem. I haven't yet discovered what will happen when I cease taking the 5-HTP, but second hand information suggests that, given time, the body will repair itself.
Ayahuasca, it must be noted, also has pharmacological effects that most psychedelics don't due to the inclusion of an MAOI. Be careful assuming that the positive effects are from the psychedelic in the mix, not that I'm denying the potential for positive long-term effects of DMT, just saying that the MAOI may be supplying the majority of the anti-depressant effects.
-------------------- "Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment." -Buddha COGNITIVE LIBERTY NOW!
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krypto2000
Unknown
Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: psychonaut52]
#10912672 - 08/22/09 02:18 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Old thread is old.
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quiksilver98
PsychedelicInsighter
Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 284
Loc: BC, Canada
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression *UPDATE: Success* [Re: Ophanim]
#10923956 - 08/24/09 12:04 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Marijuana can only cause paranoia which can lead to anxiety. also any psychedelic substance can activated subconsious/perinatal material, it is known as the path to enlightenment. Ive talked to 2 doctors with phds who have studied marijuana for over 20 years. Those people might have anxiety/depression, that could have developed when smoking marijauna, but it would have happened anyway. When marijuana trends were going up, psychotic episode trends stayed the same.
-------------------- To open your mind you must close your eyes--->Perception is key<---Reality is not Actualality
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quiksilver98
PsychedelicInsighter
Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 284
Loc: BC, Canada
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: AgingHippy]
#10923979 - 08/24/09 12:08 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah that is also true, memory clevexes in the brain store strong emotional memories about intense experiences, and the only way to make a HUGE negative clevex go away is by having a good trip. But also some anxiety and depression is also caused by activated material in subconsious/perinatal matrice.
-------------------- To open your mind you must close your eyes--->Perception is key<---Reality is not Actualality
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cynick420
stranger danger!
Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 294
Loc: earth i think?
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: LSDreamer]
#10924326 - 08/24/09 01:18 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
LSDreamer said: I've had panic attacks on mushrooms over absolutely nothing. No basis, no deep seated emotional problem, just outright full blow, senseless, baseless panic and fear. To say that it's impossible for mushrooms to cause anxiety is ludicrous.
for sure. i have had experiences like that both with marijuana and mushrooms...never acid but thats just me. to try to ignore anyone with negative effects is to try to say that psychedelics or marijuana have no negative effects whatsoever...and thats insane to think as well. they may be substantially less common than prescribed drugs, but hell a lot of people have been nauseous from psychedelics and marijuana can cause irritation to the lungs especially with large hits and bongs, although avoidable.
marijuana and mushrooms can exacerbate an existing problem and to deny that is riddiculous
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Ophanim
The Molecule'sSpirit
Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 1,002
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: 5-HTP for individuals with Marijuana/Mushroom-induced anxiety or depression [Re: cynick420]
#13239033 - 09/24/10 12:11 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm bumping this ancient thread because I've made a huge update in the first post. It's been quite a while now and I've been continuously receiving PM's about the condition ever since I created this thread. I can't promise the things that worked for me will work for everyone, but I want to share my experiences. People may do with them what they wish.
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