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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334544 - 11/29/08 10:17 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DragonChaser said:
How does he make more sense than I do?

He latched onto one opinion that I made in this thread.  He didn't even begin to argue with the facts I brought up.  It was obvious I was kidding about suffrage being a negative thing, how I preceded my argument with "women are things :shrug:".

I backed up the rest of my arguments with facts.  He provided no facts, instead just latched onto the one opinion I dropped.  Suffrage had negative effects.  Bottom line.  Ignoring the financial side, children now have less time to spend with either parent.  Which is not going to be positive.  Unless you think that more time in day-care or in front of the television is a good thing.

Ever read Fahrenheit 451?  He specifically talks about the degradation of the family unit.




First of all suffrage means, "right to vote" explain to me how a women having the right to vote effects society negatively. You throw around a term you dont even know what it means.

second of all, more women are in the work place not because of "suffrage" but because the economic situation calls for both parents to work, the 1950's era of a comfortable blue collar existence is over.

What you're saying about children being raised by television, or the state, or anything else is simple conjecture, pure and simple. You havent stated any facts, just anecdotes and conjecture.

So far he makes way more sense then you do.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334554 - 11/29/08 10:19 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ever read Fahrenheit 451?  He specifically talks about the degradation of the family unit.




Bradbury is not a sociologist, he is a fiction writer.

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OfflineDragonChaser
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9334562 - 11/29/08 10:21 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I'm referring to all of the rest of my points, which you attacked by saying "everything you said has been mind numbingly stupid", not the suffrage point.

If you attack all my points in a debate, you are required to provide evidence for your attacks on all of them.


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My name is Mud

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334566 - 11/29/08 10:22 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, here's how I can debunk EVERY SINGLE point you've made so far:

Every bit of it is either unsupported opinion of conjecture. You have nothing supporting anything you say; you just say it and hope people will believe you.

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OfflineDragonChaser
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9334573 - 11/29/08 10:25 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DragonChaser said:C-sections have skyrocketed so that women can plan when they are going to have their babies, because their schedules are too busy to be interrupted by a natural birth.  The rise in C-sections has led to a rise in respiratory infections and poorer health in children.  Less than a third of all C-sections now are medically necessary.

Homeschooling may be on the rise, but moves are being made to ban it.  California just did that.





Oh really?  Google C-sections and Homeschooling in California.


--------------------
My name is Mud

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334581 - 11/29/08 10:27 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

That's not how it works. You can't just spout numbers. What are your sources?

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OfflineDragonChaser
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9334624 - 11/29/08 10:34 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Cesarean section (c-section) is delivery of a baby by surgery. An incision (cut) is made in the mother's belly and uterus (womb). According to the National Center for Health Statistics, 1 in 3 babies in the United States is delivered by cesarean section.
Over the past few years, the rate of cesarean birth has increased rapidly.
The National Center for Health Statistics estimates that 1 in 3 babies in the United States are delivered by c-section. Over the past few years, the rate of cesarean birth has increased rapidly. Some health care providers believe that many
c-sections are medically unnecessary. When a woman has a cesarean, the benefits of the procedure should outweigh the risks. For more information, see the article Cesarean Birth by Request.
Some women may prefer to have a cesarean section instead of a vaginal birth, even without medical need. It may be appealing for both the woman and the health care provider to consider cesarean because it helps them plan their schedules. Some women ask for c-section because they are worried about the pain of vaginal delivery.

http://www.marchofdimes.com/pnhec/240_1031.asp

#  The World Health Organization (WHO) states that no region in the world is justified in having a cesarean rate greater than 10 to 15 percent.
# In the past twenty years, the cesarean section rates have nearly quintupled in the US to 23.8% in 1989 and nearly quadrupled in Canada to 18.3% in 1987-8.
#  A cesarean section poses documented medical risks to the mother's health, including infections, hemorrhage, transfusion, injury to other organs, anesthesia complications, psychological complications, and a maternal mortality two to four times greater than that for a vaginal birth.
# An elective cesarean section increases the risk to the infant of premature birth and respiratory distress syndrome, both of which are associated with multiple complications, intensive care and burdensome financial costs. Even mature babies, the absences of labor increases the risk of breathing problems and other complications.
# Cesareans can delay the opportunity for early mother-newborn interaction, breastfeeding and the establishment of family bonds.
# In the US and Canada, over one-third of all cesareans are repeat cesareans. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) recommends that the concept of routine repeat cesarean be replaced by a specific indication for surgery, and that most women can be counseled and encouraged to labor and have a vaginal birth after a cesarean
# Some health care experts believe that many c-sections are medically unnecessary. A cesarean section is major surgery and should be done only when the health of the mother or baby is at risk


http://www.childbirth.org/section/CSFact.html

California Court Bans Homeschooling
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=25469


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My name is Mud

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OfflineDragonChaser
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Redstorm]
    #9334633 - 11/29/08 10:37 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

And Ray Bradbury may have just been a writer, but so was George Orwell.  And a lot of their predictions are slowly being shown true.

You can't deny that children are becoming more and more sociopathic.  School shootings, children kidnapping and torturing other children, pushing old people off docks, doing insane things.

Some people say its violent video games.  Some people say its violence on TV.  I say its because the family unit is breaking apart because children spend less time with their parents since they both work.  Thats my opinion, and I think its a lot more likely than most.  You can dislike my opinion, but that doesn't give you the right to refer to me as mongoloid or say that everything I've said is stupid.


--------------------
My name is Mud

Edited by DragonChaser (11/29/08 10:39 PM)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #9334638 - 11/29/08 10:37 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
explain to me how a women having the right to vote effects society negatively.




Barack Obama

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334644 - 11/29/08 10:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

On C-sections:

Where are your numbers showing that less than 1/3 of them are necessary What numbers show that they are increasing to meet schedule needs?

On homeschooling (welcome to the present):

Quote:

On Aug. 8, however, the same judges made an equally surprising reversal of this decision. Judge H. Walter Croskey, presiding over the Second District Court of Appeal in Los Angeles, wrote that as long as parents declare their home to be a private school, they may continue to homeschool their children, even if the parents do not have credentials.




http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1832485,00.html

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OfflineDragonChaser
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334687 - 11/29/08 10:48 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DragonChaser said:
Some women may prefer to have a cesarean section instead of a vaginal birth, even without medical need. It may be appealing for both the woman and the health care provider to consider cesarean because it helps them plan their schedules. Some women ask for c-section because they are worried about the pain of vaginal delivery.

http://www.marchofdimes.com/pnhec/240_1031.asp





Thats my source, I'm too tired and sick to look for more specific stats.
Quote:

DragonChaser said:
#  The World Health Organization (WHO) states that no region in the world is justified in having a cesarean rate greater than 10 to 15 percent.
# In the past twenty years, the cesarean section rates have nearly quintupled in the US to 23.8% in 1989 and nearly quadrupled in Canada to 18.3% in 1987-8.





Are you incapable of reading between the lines or making educated deductions?
If the WHO is correct that no region in the world, no matter how shitty the prenatal care, is justified in medically needing a 10-15 c-section rate, and America, which has good prenatal care had a 24% C-section rate, increasing to a full 1/3 in recent years, then that would suggest that more than half of the C-sections are medically unnecessary.

I'm going to stick this in here again, in case you missed it earlier since I edited after you posted.

And Ray Bradbury may have just been a writer, but so was George Orwell.  And a lot of their predictions are slowly being shown true.

You can't deny that children are becoming more and more sociopathic.  School shootings, children kidnapping and torturing other children, pushing old people off docks, doing insane things.

Some people say its violent video games.  Some people say its violence on TV.  I say its because the family unit is breaking apart because children spend less time with their parents since they both work.  Thats my opinion, and I think its a lot more likely than most.  You can dislike my opinion, but that doesn't give you the right to refer to me as mongoloid or say that everything I've said is stupid.


--------------------
My name is Mud

Edited by DragonChaser (11/29/08 10:49 PM)

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: DragonChaser]
    #9334869 - 11/29/08 11:30 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for derailing this thread


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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OfflineDude96
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: California]
    #9334949 - 11/29/08 11:47 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Oregon said:
Quote:

Dude96 said:
They should not be seen as less or more capable by their sex, but rather by their physical characteristics.





are you dumb, or blind?




Neither. Sex defines them as generally having less upper body strength.

That big butch chick who can bench 200 lbs doesn't seem to have a problem though, so why not let her in? I understand theres more to it, but the difficulties could be prevented. Hell, look at china, they have a huge ass women's army.


--------------------
"We cross our bridges when we come to them and burn them behind us, with nothing to show for our progress except a memory of the smell of smoke, and a presumption that our eyes once watered."
-Tom Stoppard

"He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."
-Samuel Johnson

I will be a cancer upon you, ravaging all that you love and sundering your beliefs. Then, and only then, once you have fallen so far and are but a shell of that which you once were, I will grant you your every dream.
Only to crush them all before your eyes. You doubted my willpower, you abused my generosity, and now you will recognize my cruelty.
-Anonymous

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Dude96]
    #9335017 - 11/30/08 12:03 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dude96 said:
Hell, look at china, they have a huge ass women's army.




I think that having a separate all female Army would be OK

Having a co-ed (combat) Army is not such a good idea though.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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OfflineDude96
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9335029 - 11/30/08 12:06 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

Dude96 said:
Hell, look at china, they have a huge ass women's army.




I think that having a separate all female Army would be OK

Having a co-ed (combat) Army is not such a good idea though.




Oh I agree, unless serious changes were made.


--------------------
"We cross our bridges when we come to them and burn them behind us, with nothing to show for our progress except a memory of the smell of smoke, and a presumption that our eyes once watered."
-Tom Stoppard

"He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."
-Samuel Johnson

I will be a cancer upon you, ravaging all that you love and sundering your beliefs. Then, and only then, once you have fallen so far and are but a shell of that which you once were, I will grant you your every dream.
Only to crush them all before your eyes. You doubted my willpower, you abused my generosity, and now you will recognize my cruelty.
-Anonymous

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Dude96]
    #9335045 - 11/30/08 12:08 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Yea, like having the same physical requirments.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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OfflineSSM_Arts
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: niteowl]
    #9337761 - 11/30/08 02:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

This thread gave me a stiffy...

:penis:


--------------------


Dedication, Patience & tenacity is the curve that grades a wannabe from a true cultivator. - Agar

“The only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing.”
- Socrates

I had to go to the hospital for sinus treatment a couple years ago. I recommended THIS to anyone with sinusitus or nasal problems. It's amazing!

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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: yasi]
    #9337802 - 11/30/08 02:35 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

They should be allowed to serve anywhere in the military except in any recon or special operations capacity, with the exception of civil affairs and psychological warfare.

So pretty much has it stands now.


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...

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Offlineigwna
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: Crasher]
    #9337824 - 11/30/08 02:39 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

they have men and women prisons, they should have men and women groups in the military.


but i do think the test for women to get into the military should be equivelent to a mans test.


if they want to fight and risk their lives for their gov'ts choices, why the fuck not shouldn't they be allowed to?


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.


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InvisibleCrasher
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Re: Should women be allowed in combat realated military jobs? [Re: igwna]
    #9337855 - 11/30/08 02:45 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

you guys know that women can serve pretty much everywhere in the military right?

I've known an MP batallion that was chock full of women and they got in some serious shit in Iraq. We nicknamed them the Amazons.

They just can't be in the infantry or direct combat roles.


--------------------
Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...

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