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InvisibleVoido
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Registered: 04/20/08
Posts: 396
Re: Ethics [Re: Patisotagami]
    #9322636 - 11/27/08 03:34 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I should have stated, everyone knows the basics to what is right and wrong, such as killing, stealing, raping.. ect.  Notice I said "Our world is finally at the stage where the super powers are, for the most part, acting under ethics that are humane. The USA, Russia, China, Uk,no slaves. No mass genocide". I'm quite aware that our government hasn't exactly valued every human life for what they should, but hey if them killing and installing different dictators, and so on, keeps me from speaking russian, then fuck it. War comes from human's cultural conditioning, or lack of, that has derived from things far from our natural consciousness, that I know for sure, so then so be it, it is around and has been for thousands of years. However, organized slavery or genocide, especially when it is administered by the free countries and most developed countries, is wrong, and now we have developed enough to not only have that in black and white, but also to prevent it for the most part, when the cost is worth it.


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- V


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Ethics [Re: Voido]
    #9322999 - 11/27/08 04:51 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Voido said:There are no huge ethical gray areas anymore, everyone knows what is right and wrong




Please tell me why we haven't resolved the death penalty or abortion debates thus far.  Why is killing a cow considered to be normal when killing a dog isn't?  What about stem cells and cloning?

It's a sweeping generalization to say that everyone knows what is right and wrong.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleVoido
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Re: Ethics [Re: deCypher]
    #9323293 - 11/27/08 05:53 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I reply with my other reply above. Like I pointed out, I meant the government and general population of the powerful nations that would have the power to construct a mass genocide or something of that nature.


Edited by Voido (11/27/08 06:04 PM)


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Ethics [Re: Voido]
    #9323378 - 11/27/08 06:08 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Sure, I agree that most governments ostensibly label genocide as a bad thing, but I don't think this infers the existence of an absolute morality.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleVoido
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Re: Ethics [Re: deCypher]
    #9323574 - 11/27/08 06:57 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Sure, I agree that most governments ostensibly label genocide as a bad thing, but I don't think this infers the existence of an absolute morality.




I would say... rape, murder, slavery, genocide, theft, all pretty common things that are globally agreed upon as immoral.


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- V


Edited by Voido (11/27/08 06:59 PM)


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Ethics [Re: Voido]
    #9323789 - 11/27/08 07:56 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Some people think they're immoral; others don't.  Is the death penalty justified for criminals?  What about abortion?

Such general concepts as murder and theft might be fine to be labeled as immoral if you don't probe too deeply, but when referring to specific situations the black and white-ness tends to erode in favor of a fuzzy moral gray area.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Ethics [Re: deCypher]
    #9323811 - 11/27/08 08:02 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

How about some new material? You think those are original arrrrrrghh-uments?


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Invisiblemr.bixby
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Re: Ethics *DELETED* [Re: Voido]
    #9324170 - 11/27/08 09:04 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Why does it need to be impersonal?  Is there a rule against that?  I've enjoyed reading this thread. 
Even if this has been gone over before who cares?  It's fresh to me, and I like to be able to not have to always search the old posts with the dead threads.


Edited by mr.bixby (11/27/08 09:13 PM)


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Invisiblemr.bixby
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Re: Ethics [Re: Voido]
    #9324590 - 11/27/08 10:10 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

To have JivjaN treat the realm that to me would be considered a "miracle" as an axiom is like one extreme, and Decypher with the chemo and medical community as the other end.
Chemo destroys cells, cancerous ones as well as healthy ones, if you can't prove anything that statement comes as close as you can to.
If everything is just the mind and knowing how to cure yourself, with the plants as teachers, and I agree with that to a certain extent, why is it such a rare thing to cure oneself from any disease or condition with things like cancer, aids, herpes, etc., or other things that in the medical world are deemed uncurable?
Is it all faith?  And has JivjaN experienced that first hand and by experience or by trusting others who claim that or by reading about it?


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finality [faɪˈnælɪtɪ]
n pl -ties
1. the condition or quality of being final or settled; conclusiveness.
2. a final or conclusive act

Long live the Shroomery and I'm done with it.:toast:


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InvisibleVoido
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Re: Ethics [Re: deCypher]
    #9324773 - 11/27/08 10:47 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Some people think they're immoral; others don't.  Is the death penalty justified for criminals?  What about abortion?

Such general concepts as murder and theft might be fine to be labeled as immoral if you don't probe too deeply, but when referring to specific situations the black and white-ness tends to erode in favor of a fuzzy moral gray area.




Dude, you were talking about absolute morals, I was giving you some general ones that are practically globally black and white. We all know those are gray areas, I STARTED THE THREAD!!!! I tried to get people to debate these gray areas in the first place!

But for fun:

Death Penalty - More about money.
Abortion - About if something is alive or not, to science and religion

My personal stances
- let criminals live, unless they are seriously neurologically damaged and twisted to the point of no return as far as we can judge, then kill the sick fuck, I'm talking just someone who might of snapped once and murdered someone, let them have the chance to redeem themselves spiritually, that's why I'd let them live. Our taxes go to a lot of useless shit, id spend mine on a life.

- Abortion - If the girl was raped, I think it's ok, if birth control failed, I think it's ok, if a girl gets pregnant and she is an adult (kids make mistakes, blah blah), and she cant take on her responsibility, she must have it and give it away to child care or something or other. I know most don't agree with this, but its inexcusable for our society to have adults that are to that level of irresponsibility, as well as it is inexcusable for us to have faulty birth control methods/tools by now.


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- V


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Ethics [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9325043 - 11/27/08 11:29 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
How about some new material? You think those are original arrrrrrghh-uments?




Pot calling the kettle blaaarrrrggghhck?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflinePatisotagami
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Re: Ethics [Re: Voido]
    #9325319 - 11/28/08 12:36 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Voido said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Some people think they're immoral; others don't.  Is the death penalty justified for criminals?  What about abortion?

Such general concepts as murder and theft might be fine to be labeled as immoral if you don't probe too deeply, but when referring to specific situations the black and white-ness tends to erode in favor of a fuzzy moral gray area.




Dude, you were talking about absolute morals, I was giving you some general ones that are practically globally black and white. We all know those are gray areas, I STARTED THE THREAD!!!! I tried to get people to debate these gray areas in the first place!

But for fun:

Death Penalty - More about money.
Abortion - About if something is alive or not, to science and religion

My personal stances
- let criminals live, unless they are seriously neurologically damaged and twisted to the point of no return as far as we can judge, then kill the sick fuck, I'm talking just someone who might of snapped once and murdered someone, let them have the chance to redeem themselves spiritually, that's why I'd let them live. Our taxes go to a lot of useless shit, id spend mine on a life.

- Abortion - If the girl was raped, I think it's ok, if birth control failed, I think it's ok, if a girl gets pregnant and she is an adult (kids make mistakes, blah blah), and she cant take on her responsibility, she must have it and give it away to child care or something or other. I know most don't agree with this, but its inexcusable for our society to have adults that are to that level of irresponsibility, as well as it is inexcusable for us to have faulty birth control methods/tools by now.




Voido, just because you started the thread does not mean you control it. It's fun to interact but not to feel attacked. deCypher, I am thankful that you are agreeing with my logic. See above posts.


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EVERYTHING IS EVERYTHING


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InvisibleVoido
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Posts: 396
Re: Ethics [Re: Patisotagami]
    #9326379 - 11/28/08 09:57 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

He kept asking me, What about this? What about this? Trying to elaborate on how I was ignoring that there was moral gray areas, I started the thread because I wanted to discuss a moral gray area! That's all man, nobodies attacking you.

Your logic is just "not every culture has the same morals, not everyone has the same right and wrong" then you have your ecocentric version of "humans made right and wrong (obviously) nature does not include these things nor does the universe, without us". Then go into what things are going wrong in the world, backed up by the tibet and terrorism link... I think it's a given all would agree with these obviously, including me, however these are just picking at the bone.

The only reason I ceased to be precise was because after this statement you said: "Why should I butt my head in to someone else's business? Ethics? Morals? These are all imaginary creations of the human mind. Come on! They don't actually exist outside of our heads"

I had figured by then, after that statement, that we both knew what we were referring to therefore when I said "black and white", I thought you knew already which actions and what cultures/societies I was referring to.


Edited by Voido (11/28/08 10:31 AM)


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