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cowchips902
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Solipsism Syndrome
#9320860 - 11/27/08 04:43 AM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Anyone ever truly had it?
hearing someone else talk about it would be nice...
-------------------- The One That Became Many is Becoming One Agin!
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it stars saddam
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The fact that this is considered a "syndrome" is absurd.
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LobsterSauce
Registered: 11/09/08
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What is it?
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile
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it is the sad fact of nature that we have to ignore in order to keep sane. it is only a syndrome insofar as people can get obsessed with the notion
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
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Anyone who has it wouldn't be talking to other figments of his imagination in the first place.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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truekimbo2
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Re: Solipsism Syndrome [Re: deCypher]
#9322130 - 11/27/08 01:08 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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seems kind of related to the truman show disorder that was mentioned in the pub recently.
This disorder is boring, way more interesting is NASA's method for combating it on the wiki page.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Solipsism Syndrome [Re: deCypher]
#9322168 - 11/27/08 01:21 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: Anyone who has it wouldn't be talking to other figments of his imagination in the first place.
Just remember that with my pencil eraser I can omit any evidence of your ever having existed.
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cowchips902
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its just trippy. i hate it.
and if you had it you would know what im talking about.
ppl always say shit like can you remake all the music you have heard can write shakespeare?
i don't have to. becuse its in my reality.
its not that the person thinks im the only thing so i don't care about anyone else.
its more like i want totalk but why should i talk when there is noone.
its lonly. i freak out like panic attacks
i think its from abusing E and acid. i don't regret it tho
-------------------- The One That Became Many is Becoming One Agin!
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Noteworthy
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something that saves me from solipsism syndrom is that even if solipsism is true, there is at least SOMETHING other than my consciousness that is occuring (because I dont consciously will everyhting into existance) and thus even if there are no other people, there is at least this phenomenon occuring which supports my consciousness and I can react with THIS, and it gives me sensations
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cowchips902
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Re: Solipsism Syndrome [Re: Noteworthy]
#9327921 - 11/28/08 03:31 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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thanks thats a great way to look at it.
-------------------- The One That Became Many is Becoming One Agin!
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reunenlightened
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Re: Solipsism Syndrome [Re: Noteworthy]
#9596052 - 01/12/09 04:37 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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but is it just me or is it laughing at me?
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Arden
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Quote:
Anyone who has it wouldn't be talking to other figments of his imagination in the first place.
You beat me to it.
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Silversoul
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A professor gets up to a podium and announces himself to be a solipsist. A voice from the back of the audience says, "Thank God! I thought I was the only one."
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reunenlightened
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Re: Solipsism Syndrome [Re: Arden]
#9596085 - 01/12/09 04:42 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Arden said:
Quote:
Anyone who has it wouldn't be talking to other figments of his imagination in the first place.
You beat me to it.
Have you ever had a lucid dream? Do you stop talking to the characters in your dreams when you realize they're not real? I don't, that would be boring and lonely.
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Arden
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Re: Solipsism Syndrome [Re: Silversoul]
#9596091 - 01/12/09 04:42 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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AnxietyDrive
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Re: Solipsism Syndrome [Re: Arden]
#9596131 - 01/12/09 04:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Anyone read Sartre's development of solipsism in "Being and Nothingness"?
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reunenlightened
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Re: Solipsism Syndrome [Re: Arden]
#9596135 - 01/12/09 04:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'll just add that clarity is terrifying. That's why I've quit taking psycho-actives.
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reunenlightened
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Quote:
AnxietyDrive said: Anyone read Sartre's development of solipsism in "Being and Nothingness"?
I don't think I made it that far. Care to recount?
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daytripper23
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Re: Solipsism Syndrome [Re: Arden]
#9596175 - 01/12/09 04:52 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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"Here are two Sanskrit words. The one is Pravritti, which means revolving towards, and the other is Nivritti, which means revolving away. The "revolving towards" is what we call the world, the "I and mine"; it includes all those things which are always enriching that "me" by wealth and money and power, and name and fame, and which are of grasping nature, always tending to accumulate everything in one centre, that centre being "myself". That is the Pravritti, the natural tendency of every human being; taking everything from everywhere and heaping it around one centre, that centre being man's own sweet self."
- Swami Vivekananda
"In this philosophy, life forms are not the result of the unfoldment of previous life forms, but every form of life has evolved from the underlying source of existence known as consciousness. The subtle does not evolve from the gross but the gross from the subtle. Consider a movie film. It has a story that unfolds from beginning to end. This is the process of scientific evolution. Each scene is related to the next but at the same time the story in the film is not the source of the pictures. The source of the picture is in the film strip. The film strip can be compared to consciousness. It is a projection of the film onto the screen from the film strip that Tantra and other Indian systems regard as evolution, not the flow of the story itself.
The tantric theory of evolution or manifestation of the material world takes place in two directions- the outward and the inward. In the outward direction, (pavritti). Shakti plunges downwards and product's the world of forms. In the inward direction (nivritti) Shakti moves in the opposite direction, from the gross to the more subtle. The further Shakti moves outwards and downwards, the deeper is the veil of ignorance. The greater the inward and upward movement of Shakti, the greater the awareness, knowledge or grace of divinity.
There is an exactly parallel concept in Taoism. Shakti, is known as 'Teh' which is divided into 'yin' (nivritti) and 'yang' (pavritti). Yin is the tendency to return to the source, to withdraw and submerge itself with the substratum of consciousness. Yang is expansion, action and creation of all things. They represent two rhythms - yang, or action and going forth, and yin, the return to the centre."
http://www.yogamag.net/archives/1991/bmar91/pavnav.shtml
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daytripper23
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I have read a good chunk of "Being and Nothingness", and plan on going back to it eventually. (I am taking an excursion into nausea right now)
But is this solipsism? I didn't think it was (the concept is a bit new to me). "The other" as I took it, is the basis of his entire philosophy, so I do not understand how you get solipsism out of this. Besides, isn't solipsism "one more" than nothingness?
Have you ever read Sartre's essay "Existentialism is a Humanism"?
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reunenlightened
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sartre's idea that you have to cultivate your ideal of humanity within yourself, as well as kant's categorical imperative, seem to me to have some solipsistic undertones albeit in a vague slightly paradoxical way
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AnxietyDrive
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Read the chapter "the existence of others", and try to understand what he is saying, much of it is babble if you ask me. It was hard for me to discern a clear understanding of what he was saying, not because i think it went over my head, which some of it likely did, but the fact that he was philosophizing using a method of idioglossia, along with "stream of consciousness" writing.
Overall i thought his work was jumbled, incoherent, and wholly unreadable. For some it may be considered seminal and genius, but i disliked it greatly, and considered it incomprehensible.
As far as existentialism is concerned i would much rather read Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, or the fiction writer Albert Camus.
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reunenlightened
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Camus' non-fiction is pretty great, Myth of Sisyphus sums up samsara pretty well.
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AnxietyDrive
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Quote:
reunenlightened said: sartre's idea that you have to cultivate your ideal of humanity within yourself, as well as kant's categorical imperative, seem to me to have some solipsistic undertones albeit in a vague slightly paradoxical way
I would not call the categorical imperative existential thinking. The categorical imperative is an idea derived from his mode of thought called "duty ethics", in which morality or moral ideals are good in and of themselves, although in relation to some existential thought the imperative does deal with internal validations. Part of the idea was to counter teleological modes of thought that stressed ends instead of means.
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AnxietyDrive
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Quote:
reunenlightened said: Camus' non-fiction is pretty great, Myth of Sisyphus sums up samsara pretty well.
I have not read the Myth of Sisyphus.
Edit: Samsara being the Indian word representing the endless cycle of suffering or craving, correct?
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Edited by AnxietyDrive (01/12/09 05:27 PM)
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reunenlightened
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Quote:
AnxietyDrive said:
Quote:
reunenlightened said: sartre's idea that you have to cultivate your ideal of humanity within yourself, as well as kant's categorical imperative, seem to me to have some solipsistic undertones albeit in a vague slightly paradoxical way
I would not call the categorical imperative existential thinking. The categorical imperative is an idea derived from his mode of thought called "duty ethics", in which morality or moral ideals are good in and of themselves, although in relation to some existential thought the imperative does deal with internal validations. Part of the idea was to counter teleological modes of thought that stressed ends instead of means.
The thing about the categorical imperative that strikes me as being solipsistic is the emphasis that you should approach each action you take as being made into a universal principle, as though by taking them you shape reality and make it into your own self-image. Sartre seems to me to be saying the same thing but in a more convoluted way.
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reunenlightened
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Quote:
AnxietyDrive said:
Quote:
reunenlightened said: Camus' non-fiction is pretty great, Myth of Sisyphus sums up samsara pretty well.
I have not read the Myth of Sisyphus.
Edit: Samsara being the Indian word representing the endless cycle of suffering or craving, correct?
Indeed, although variations of it are found in most Eastern religions. For Camus it's limited to the one life we are conscious of, and how it seems to revolve around constantly pushing toward goals that slip away as soon as we reach them, much like Sisyphus pushing his boulder up the mountain. It is also a refutation of suicide from the standpoint of absurdity, which is an impressive accomplishment.
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daytripper23
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Hah youve got to love Sartrian metaphor. I remember that, lawns sucking up park benches into the others body right?
I see how you can dig solipsism out of this (hence the environment sucking up into a self), but it is only a piece of his basic message. Reunenlightened calls them solipsistic undertones, and I think this is good way to describe it. But we cannot ignore the counterpoint, precisely that this center is described in an "other".
Anyways, I have not read an existentialist that I did not enjoy. I think Sartre is very good, even if he is not exactly lucid and to the point. I think he had a lot to say, despite his apparent contradictions. I wrote two papers disputing Sartre last semestor, but this only makes him a greater influence. For me, he is less an end all source or bible, than he is a guru.
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daytripper23
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Quote:
reunenlightened said: Camus' non-fiction is pretty great, Myth of Sisyphus sums up samsara pretty well.
Exactly. When first read it I was constantly looking up the Hindu equivalents in term.
Myth of Sisyphus contains one of my favorite philosophical quotes: "Whether the earth or sun revolves around the other is a matter of profound indifference."
Speaking of revolving, did you see my first post?
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AnxietyDrive
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Indeed. Sounds interesting, but i am not much of the existential philosopher in the truest sense of the word. I am more mystic and apologetic of the human condition, not that it negates existentialism from being a part of my philosophy.
Kierkegaard is an example of this. I really enjoyed reading his work "Fear and Trembling", and thought it was very cool of him to recite the story Abraham at the beginning of that work, before delving into his moral philosophy, and the technical aspects thereof.
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flangenips
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Re: Solipsism Syndrome [Re: Silversoul]
#9596684 - 01/12/09 05:54 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said: A professor gets up to a podium and announces himself to be a solipsist. A voice from the back of the audience says, "Thank God! I thought I was the only one."
I enjoyed that.
-------------------- All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher. - Ambrose Bierce
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AnonymousRabbit
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.
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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/18/22 11:47 PM)
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Recondicom
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Quote:
AnxietyDrive said: Read the chapter "the existence of others", and try to understand what he is saying, much of it is babble if you ask me. It was hard for me to discern a clear understanding of what he was saying, not because i think it went over my head, which some of it likely did, but the fact that he was philosophizing using a method of idioglossia, along with "stream of consciousness" writing.
Overall i thought his work was jumbled, incoherent, and wholly unreadable. For some it may be considered seminal and genius, but i disliked it greatly, and considered it incomprehensible.
As far as existentialism is concerned i would much rather read Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, or the fiction writer Albert Camus.
I’m familiar with Camus. So I went to read his biography looking for the fact that he read Nietzsche. So Camus is an Algerian familiar with the works of Calderon de la Barca and Nietzsche that went on to the Resistance in France. Perhaps solipsism with no cure unless he believed in second chances.
-------------------- Wave. 'And for this reason repentance (metanoia) is an elevating means. For he who feels impatience with the circunstances in which he finds himself, devises means of escape. Now the chief thing in purification is the will. For then both deeds and words lend a helping hand. But, when the will is absent, the whole purificatory discipline of initiation is...'
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Noteworthy
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Quote:
supernovasky said: In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, outside influences are the reasons for selective experiences. The way a photon hits my retina leads to my perception that is a symbol of an outside event (although in my opinion, very far removed from the actual event in time and space). If reality did not exist and I was merely a consciousness observing nothing for the totality of my life and merely creating my own reality, I would have no reason to create a reality that was not homogeneous and undisturbed. Ripples exist in my reality, though, disturbances that tend to point to a source for said disturbances. If I were a singularity, a non-observing entity that created my own reality, then disturbances and ripples would be pointless and impossible, for there would be no outside source for those disturbances.
There could be an argument made that may seem contradictory to this assertion, and that is that the disturbances and imperfections are created inside of my own consciousness, thus pointing to the idea that my consciousness IS the universe... but that is something I already agree with, because every aspect of me contains a ripple from somewhere in this universe, and thus, I hold a record of every single thing that has ever happened in this universe. Gravitational waves and colapsing stars are forming barely perceivable vibrations in the atoms of my being.
I don't believe that we have to perceive something for it to exist, because I believe that we NEVER perceive that which actually exists, and only perceive ripples FROM that which exists. The thing that gives it its "real" quality is the disturbance that removes our observant mind from perceiving nothing at all, a homogeneous perception. Homogeneity is NOT what we perceive though. We perceive effects, ripples, that must have reasons for their disturbances
We don't live in an unbroken void... thus, something has to disturb my reality. If reality was a solitary exercise, then there would be no reason for certain things to "turn on" over other things, or for certain things to happen over other things happening. Even saying that things happen because we perceive them to happen is escaping the point... if reality was solitary, all within my own mind, then I would have never had an outside influence to choose one way of perceiving over another... my reality would be homogeneous and uninfluenced by outside sources.
That is my view on solipsism.
I dont think that solipsism states that nothing exists besides our consciousness, it merely states that we can never know anything about what exists outside our consciousness because we will never experience anything other than our consciousness. which means there is no reason to believe other people are actually other minds, or to believe that the external world's contents will 'continue to exist' when we are not experiencing them.
but solipsism does not deny that what we are experiencing is caused by external ripples.. this is still within possibility. It can simply never be determined true or not.
solipsism is logically flawless.. but it is also uninformative in the strictest sense of the word.
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reunenlightened
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was inspired to write a story about this, read it if you feel comfortably sane
Solipists Anonymous
Edited by reunenlightened (02/11/09 03:03 AM)
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daytripper23
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Cool, I can see the influence.
Reminds me a little of Hesse's Magic Theater.
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